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[Aelius28]

TL;DR - Why did Queen Anora lie to Cauthrien and her guards and told them that I kidnapped her (the Queen) after I encountered Cauthrien and told Cauthrien about the Queen's imprisonment?

Okay, so I rescued the Queen from (allegedly) being held prisoner in her room, and then I turned the corner to confront Ser Cauthrien and her guards whom I promptly informed of the situation. I told them that the Queen was being held captive by Arl Howe and that I was rescuing her, and then after Cauthrien's incredulity I said "Anora is right here, ask her yourself," at which point Anora said "Ser Cauthrien! Thank the Maker you're here; these brigands tried to kidnap me!"

Anyway, after killing Ser Cauthrien and heading back to Arl Eamon, I found Queen Anora at his side (!!!) and she greeted me as if nothing had happened, saying, "After your alarming lack of subtlety, I feared the worse for you.. I prayed for your safe return," and I said, "Aw, that's sweet.. it almost makes me want to kill you less," and then she brushed it off, saying, "What did you expect me to do? You announced me to my father's most trusted lackey! What did you think my disguise was for? I barely managed to slip away from [Cauthrien] after we reached the palace" (an odd excuse, considering that Cauthrien did not accompany her to the palace... I killed her.)

So then the Queen basically said "despite our unfortunate beginning, I hope we can work together," but for some reason there were no dialogue options to, like, kill her... or try and ascertain what the hell just happened. My character is forced to cooperate, and neither Anora nor Eamon seem to be willing to explain to me why I was betrayed by that double-crossing Queen.

I searched the Dragon Age wiki but found no explanation either.

Modifié par Aelius28, 28 novembre 2011 - 11:58 .

[pplr]

I think this was touched on in the thread debating if Anora is power hungry or not.

In this particular case you messed up. She wanted to sneak out of the castle you were rescuing her from and you announced she is right there *before* you guys even make it out the door.

That is what she criticized you for when she said "alarming lack of subtlety"-now granted there is a difference between "subtlety" and a "lie" but Anora seems to be one of those people not to realize that.

That criticize leveled against her you kinda messed up by announcing her presence when she really didn't want you to. Had Howe been alive and actually keeping her prisoner (we debated if she was or not) and been there with a bunch of soldiers instead of Ser Cauthrien then he likely would have grabbed her and thrown her back into a locked room.

Ser Cauthrien doesn't seem to be as dishonest as either Howe or Loghin which is why Anora may have been able to go with her but get away none the less (Cauthrien may not be party to some of the worse plans so won't she doesn't cooperate with them).

Also Ser Cauthrien may have been defeated by you (you may have even taken her sword), but she may have been revived after the battle. Not sure if this is a bug in the game or an example of someone giving her the same medical/magical treatment you do to a party member who falls in battle in fights when some of your party survives but she may not be dead.

Partly repeating myself Anora is perfectly capable of lying (and willing to) but she may have told you when you first rescued her that she wanted to sneak out-mentioning she is right there while inside the building is not that.  Do expect to get arrested but other party members go free nonetheless (except Alistair).

Modifié par pplr, 29 novembre 2011 - 01:40 .

[MyNameIsPower]

Aelius28 wrote...

Why did Queen Anora lie to Cauthrien and her guards and told them that I kidnapped her (the Queen) after I encountered Cauthrien and told Cauthrien about the Queen's imprisonment?

Yes, I found this part pretty bizarre as well.  There could have been some other dialog options to pick from.

The least she could have done was help us fight, but she chose to make us look bad.  I guess she didn't think we could handle Ser Cauthien and her guards.  Anora is a politician first and foremost.  She will do anything to save her life.  Clearly her own survival trumps any sense of moral duty.

[Mike3207]

It was most likely a panic move-she really thought it was possible it would mean her death if she was returned to her father. As for handling Cauthrien and her guards, there were like 10-15 guards with Cauthrien who are really tough to kill. I had trouble killing just one  guard on Normal difficulty, and forget about Cauthrien.

Modifié par Mike Smith, 29 novembre 2011 - 07:10 .

[ShimmeringDjinn]

[quote]Mike Smith wrote...

It was most likely a panic move-she really thought it was possible it would mean her death if she was returned to her father.
Kind of contradictory don't you think? Concidering what she says after the Warden has fought her father. I mean, if she was truly afraid of him, she would not want him to live, for her life would surly still be at stake if he did.

Think about it

[ShimmeringDjinn]

[quote]ShimmeringDjinn wrote...

[quote]Mike Smith wrote...

It was most likely a panic move-she really thought it was possible it would mean her death if she was returned to her father.
Kind of contradictory don't you think? Concidering what she says after the Warden has fought her father. I mean, if she was truly afraid of him, she would not want him to live, for her life would surly still be at stake if he did.

Think about it

[/quote]
Don't know what happened there.....

[Addai]

She's a politician. It's what they do. Under the right circumstances, she lies worse than this about you in front of the Landsmeet.

[gandanlin]

Anora is deft at shifting her alliances to suit whomever in the present moment appears to have the highest likelihood of keeping her on the throne.

[Mike3207]

It's also worth mentioning there's a good chance she ends up in prison or worse if she loses the throne. Under those circumstances, it's understandable for her to do quite a bit to keep it.

[Vit246]

I stillI do not understand why she did not simply order Cauthrien and the soldiers to stand down and/or escort her to Eamon's estate. After all, she is still Queen of Ferelden, is she not? Unless she was seriously weaker than I thought or just stupid.....

[pplr]

Vit246 wrote...

I stillI do not understand why she did not simply order Cauthrien and the soldiers to stand down and/or escort her to Eamon's estate. After all, she is still Queen of Ferelden, is she not? Unless she was seriously weaker than I thought or just stupid.....

You make a mistake of thinking everyone obeys orders from the person of the next highest rank.  Someone may do something because a king or queen says so but chances are good most of the people in the castle take orders from Howe and only Howe-otherwise they would follow orders when he tells them to drag other nobles to the basement and torture them.

Loghain's men follow his orders while the Arl's men follow his-leading to the possibility the two groups will fight at the landsmeet-note that Loghain's men have already been fighting with men following other nobles.

All and all many of the soldiers in Ferelden follower orders from the person who is directly their boss-not the king or queen.  Now the king/queen may ask Banns and Arls to send troops if a war is coming and an army must be gathered. But even then the specific Arls or Banns may lead those troops into battle and thus the troops follow orders from the Bann/Arl rather than the king & his top general.

This structure is a lot less unified as when one nation as an army with everyone having a rank and are supposed to take orders from those of higher rank.

The soldiers are often more loyal to their specific noble than anyone else.

[gandanlin]

I sort of pity Anora in a way. In a wary sort of way, I suppose.

On the one hand she has her father, who left her husband for dead on the battlefield, and by whose actions finds herself a puppet on the throne. On the other hand she has people such as Arl Howe, who would probably slip a dagger into her back if they had the opportunity to do so without getting caught.

Her only real option is to ally herself with the Wardens. But without a promise of marriage from Alistair any alliance with the Wardens will force her to step down from the throne. And stepping down is not on her agenda at all.

I think she deserves some pity because her father is the primary reason she is in this position. She is being assailed on all sides by those who would take her status away from her. And the "Hero of Ferelden," her father, who should be her stalwart ally, is the person who caused it all to happen.

Tough position to be in. She does an admirable job of staying alive in all that turmoil.

[Plaintiff]

Anora would throw a child under a bus if it would secure her a position of power, which is why I'm going to let Alistair lock that **** up on my current playthrough.

I think it's complete and utter bullcrap that people just accept her behaviour because "She's a politician". That doesn't make it in any way okay. If I can't trust her on a personal level, I sure as **** can't trust her to rule a country. I don't want backstabbing liars in charge in real life, and I don't want them in charge in Dragon Age. All people, fictional or otherwise, have an inherent right to demand a leader who is open and honest in all their dealings, with their subjects and with other leaders.

[WhiteKnyght]

Aelius28 wrote...

TL;DR - Why did Queen Anora lie to Cauthrien and her guards and told them that I kidnapped her (the Queen) after I encountered Cauthrien and told Cauthrien about the Queen's imprisonment?

Okay, so I rescued the Queen from (allegedly) being held prisoner in her room, and then I turned the corner to confront Ser Cauthrien and her guards whom I promptly informed of the situation. I told them that the Queen was being held captive by Arl Howe and that I was rescuing her, and then after Cauthrien's incredulity I said "Anora is right here, ask her yourself," at which point Anora said "Ser Cauthrien! Thank the Maker you're here; these brigands tried to kidnap me!"

Anyway, after killing Ser Cauthrien and heading back to Arl Eamon, I found Queen Anora at his side (!!!) and she greeted me as if nothing had happened, saying, "After your alarming lack of subtlety, I feared the worse for you.. I prayed for your safe return," and I said, "Aw, that's sweet.. it almost makes me want to kill you less," and then she brushed it off, saying, "What did you expect me to do? You announced me to my father's most trusted lackey! What did you think my disguise was for? I barely managed to slip away from [Cauthrien] after we reached the palace" (an odd excuse, considering that Cauthrien did not accompany her to the palace... I killed her.)

So then the Queen basically said "despite our unfortunate beginning, I hope we can work together," but for some reason there were no dialogue options to, like, kill her... or try and ascertain what the hell just happened. My character is forced to cooperate, and neither Anora nor Eamon seem to be willing to explain to me why I was betrayed by that double-crossing Queen.

I searched the Dragon Age wiki but found no explanation either.

Anora's a b***h. lol

Also the reason you cant kill her is because that would just make Howe's 'plan' a reality and you'd lose the Landsmeet.

And btw, Loghain was never really going to kill her. That was another lie by Anora to get out from her containment.

[Megaton_Hope]

Same reason she lied to you, and told you Loghain was going to have her killed. And same reason she just happened to have a guard uniform in the room she was imprisoned in. And, I suspect, same reason she married Cailan "exactly one month" after Maric's death, and Cailan died with love letters to the Orlesian empress sitting next to his father's sword at camp.

She is cold as ice, and willing to sacrifice your life. Accept it, learn from it. Make her queen anyway - we are dealing with thorny political issues that demand the very kind of cold-blooded pragmatism which Anora represents.

As for why there isn't an option to kill her...Anora makes this point herself. "It will look like you're trying to put a Grey Warden on the throne, and acting in your own interests instead of the interests of Ferelden." You are, at that point, in the middle of a civil war, with the Archdemon clawing at your southern border and Orlais in the west willing to resume the occupation that it ended thirty years ago if it must. (Which we will recall was the root of Loghain's paranoia.) Killing Anora would make the Landsmeet a bloodbath, not to mention throwing Alistair's political position more severely into question. It would be...bad. Forget calling up an army to replace the one that was lost at Ostagar; killing the queen of Ferelden, who we will recall took the throne legally and properly, would doom all your efforts until that point.

Modifié par Megaton_Hope, 09 janvier 2012 - 03:56 .

[yaw]

Megaton_Hope wrote...

As for why there isn't an option to kill her...Anora makes this point herself. "It will look like you're trying to put a Grey Warden on the throne, and acting in your own interests instead of the interests of Ferelden." You are, at that point, in the middle of a civil war, with the Archdemon clawing at your southern border and Orlais in the west willing to resume the occupation that it ended thirty years ago if it must. (Which we will recall was the root of Loghain's paranoia.) Killing Anora would make the Landsmeet a bloodbath, not to mention throwing Alistair's political position more severely into question. It would be...bad. Forget calling up an army to replace the one that was lost at Ostagar; killing the queen of Ferelden, who we will recall took the throne legally and properly, would doom all your efforts until that point.

Pretty much this. She's the queen and you really need her support up to and for the Landsmeet. So whatever bull**** she pulls, you have to bite your lip and put up with it.

You can get your own back and have her excuted at the end though, providing you give Alistair the throne and he survives to take it.

Modifié par yaw, 10 janvier 2012 - 08:15 .

[Mike3207]

You can trust her-if you promise to make her Queen and consider sparing her father. It's not like Alistair is a viable alternative- he's a illegitimate bastard with elven blood. He would never even get a hearing if the truth were known, and if he didn't have the backing of Eamon. On top of that, there's really no hard evidence that Alistair is Maric's son. I really wish the game had let you make the Couslands take the throne in their own right.

[Thiefy]

Because you didn't follow her orders. Anora hates people like that.

[pplr]

Mike Smith

You mean you can make agreements with her that you can depend on so long as she feels she gets her share of the deal.

That said Alistair has the vouch of the person who was there. As evidence isn't easy to find that will have to do (often did since we are talking about a time prior to DNA tests). So he is legit enough.

[Gervaise]

One of my Wardens just pulled the same trick on Anora. She told her that she would support her bid to be queen and think about sparing her father, so that she spoke on my side at the Landsmeet and then when it came down to it she made Alistair king. It realy depends on how honourable you are and expect other people to be. Since she was a city elf, Loghain had tried to sell her people into slavery and she had lost her fiancee and been nearly raped when Anora claimed she was running the country on Cailan's behalf, there was never any way she was really going to back Anora. Since Anora knew about the Tevinter slaver thing, you'd think she'd have realised a bit sooner that my elf was probably playing her.

[pplr]

Keep in mind that Anora may have known about the slavers but not been in a position to do much about it.

She has some sway but, at the time you speak with her, less than her father.

Though I can see the possibility she is keeping info about the slavers to herself until she sees a chance to use that info she still may not be able to do much at that time.

[Mike3207]

Pplr-she wants 2 things- 1. be queen 2. a chance for her father to live. You do those two things-you won't have any issues with her.

As for Alistair, it's really second hand information at best. Did Maric ever put down in writing that he was Alistair's father? I always felt the case to make him King was pretty weak. I'd really like to know if Maric told Eamon or anyone else that Alistair was his son.I'm pretty sure he told Loghain, but I wouldn't expect him to make it public. It would have been really interesting to see a vote on who takes the throne-rather than put it on 1 person.

[Megaton_Hope]

yaw wrote...

You can get your own back and have her excuted at the end though, providing you give Alistair the throne and he survives to take it.

My preferred endings have her married to (hardened) Alistair or the Warden. I tend to agree with everybody else in the game, Alistair is much too soft-headed to rule alone. Somebody has to help him along.

I mean, sure, if you execute her she'll be out of the way...but who knows whose intrigues will be plaguing Alistair then? At least as queen, Anora's ego, ambition and ability are working in favor of protecting the Warden's interests. She cares as much about protecting Ferelden as anybody, just she has her own peculiar way of doing so that revolves entirely around herself.

FallTooDovahkiin wrote...

Well , she was disguised as a
guard too secretly get out.

Yeah, except she was in a room that
was supposed to be magically sealed from outside, and it's doubtful that
they'd have left a guard disguise just lying around in that room before
locking her in it. Maybe, MAYBE her maid fetched one from elsewhere in the few minutes I was in the dungeon killing Arl Howe and all his men...but she did come out of the door already wearing that disguise, seemingly the first time it had been opened since I showed up.

[Rockworm503]

Simply put she lied because Cautherin would not believe no matter what anyone said.  She firmly believed Loghain was the good guy the only way to get out herself was to point at you and say you're kidnapping her.  By doing that Cautherine doesn't think Anora was turning on Loghain and she could go to Eamon and plan a rescue.