13 réponses à ce sujet

[zootie]

I'm not a modder, but something
has been bugging me about terrain and I'd like to ask the knowledgeable
peoplewhy this is happening. If the fix is easy, I might scare
up enough time to learn how to fix it and make the minor changes in
mods I'm playing now, because it really, really detracts from gameplay imo.

Here's the issue from the player
perspective - there's some sort of "invisible wall" effect that stops
your character in its tracks when you encounter a transition from grassy
terrain or path to a rocky-looking slope. For
example, say there's a rock-textured hill with a winding path up it.
Even a few feet up the path, if you try to step off the path and move
down the slope of the hill, you are stopped at the edge and can't move,
even though it's apparently a mere 2 foot step down a 45 degree slope
from there.

Does anyone know what is causing this? I have seen
places where a grass-textured slope of about the same angle still lets
you move up it. I've even found one place in the mod I'm playing now where a tiny area of grassy
slope was intermixed with the rocky slope, and my character was able to
move down the tiny grassy slope, but got stuck as usual at the edge of the rocky slope.

Any information would be greatly appreciated. Even if I can't fix it, just knowing WHY might ease the frustration a little
Z

[kamal_]

Builders can mark terrain as walkable and unwalkable. We can override what the toolset decides should be walkable. This is pretty obviously what was done here. The fact the terrain is painted with the rocky texture (next to some nice grass) should be a hint to you as a player it's not walkable.

[painofdungeoneternal]

Easiest way is for you to look at it yourself. Not really a bug, but something those of us making areas sculpt.

Open up the toolset, create an area, and use the terrain tools to sculpt it. If the terrain is too steep, or it's marked unwalkable, the player cannot go there. You can hit the button at the top to show "walkmesh" and "baked", baked is what you deal with in game. if you adjust the height of the terrain using the raise and lower brushes ( terrain tab has those ) you will see the walkmesh changing to walkable and non walkable. You also have edges which are 2 larger tiles away from the edge of the map you cannot have anything walkable in. 

If you look at any module, only touch a copy of the original. ( ie if it's a mod file in your program files/atari/nwn2/modules folder, copy the file to your my docs/nwn2/modules folder, as you don't want anything being changed in your installation folder, the game will correctly use the modified files in my docs )

This is generally something done on purpose by me to keep file sizes down, and keep the AI so it has simple paths to follow. Less walkable areas, and simpler, means game performs better and monsters act smarter. You can just mark areas walkable using the walk/non walk, but there are triggers called walkmesh cutters which allow you to tailor the shape better.

Generally i try to make things make sense, ie if you can't walk somewhere i try to throw in rocks and coloration so it's clear where you can and can't go. Not really sure what you are describing, but it sounds like you'd probably find what i designed as being a bug.

Modifié par painofdungeoneternal, 29 novembre 2011 - 02:11 .

[zootie]

Really? This is by design? ow. I understand the purpose of walkable / nonwalkable as you wouldn't want people walking through big rocks, up sheer cliffs, etc., but in these cases, they're pretty short slopes, ones that you'd think would be perfectly navigable. And I get hung up on them fairly often, leading to my char getting surrounded and killed because he can't make it down a modest embankment lol.

Anyways, thanks so much for the clear explanations! Maybe I'll see if I can mark reasonablly navigable sections walkable instead. I would personally find that more believable, esp. if monsters used them too.

@nal, I did make a copy of the particular mod and took a peek inside, but I didn't know how to use the view controls at the time. I found the FAQ and will take another shot at it soon.

Thanks again for the quick answers!
Z

[painofdungeoneternal]

There are some very good tutorials on the vault. This one is very old but it's what i started with Don't Panic: The Hitchhiker's Guide to the NWN2 Toolset

Yes you'll find that with NWN2 its entirely something which is basically up to you as far as areas, monsters and story.

[Lugaid of the Red Stripes]

I've posted an explanation on the module page on the vault. Basically, the unwalkable slopes are there by design, and are meant to do exactly what they did to you: trap enemies in difficult terrain so they can get slaughtered in an ambush.

[zootie]

Oh so you're the author. Welp, thanks to the advice I got here, I'm already going over and fixing the points that were hanging up the character's movement in the paths. I can see how a lot of it happened because of the geometry. It's taking quite a bit of tweaking to get the edges in tune with the triangles without jutting out into the path or forming invisible pockets that would trap you until you bumped your way around them.

Edit: whup, you said some of this on the other post, so I didn't need to say it here  /edit

Modifié par zootie, 29 novembre 2011 - 07:01 .

[Lugaid of the Red Stripes]

There's a no-walk/walk terrain brush you can use to override the slope-based unwalkability.

[zootie]

Yup, found it. Thanks Took awhile to find the brush control, turns out it's on a slider below the brush type buttons.
I've only found a couple of spots (not entire slopes) that were reasonable to make walkable, and those were on the basis of having the exact same slope as a walkable area right next to them. Everything else is boiling down to just smoothing edges and rounding corners so that the player can concentrate on their stealthy battle with superior forces versus where they have to put their feet.

I have to say, this is kind of fun work. Much easier than the CAD/CAM apps I used to experiment with

[Kaldor Silverwand]

After you have altered the walk mesh you will have to bake and save the modified area in order for it to take effect. The Toolset tutorial should cover that.

[kamal_]

I'm not sure if you're changes to the walkmesh will show up in saved games. The areas in question have already been loaded. You may have to start over.

[zootie]

Thanks, I did read up a bit about baking, but it's good to hear it's as simple as bake and save. Re the saved games, I didn't think about that, but if I exit and reenter the area, that should reload it with the changes, right? I *think* NWN2 dumps and reloads everything. From the load times I'd say so, anyways

[rjshae]

I was thinking that a terrain-based trigger region could be used to apply a movement hindrance effect to creatures inside a sloped, rocky area, rather than making it a non-walk area. For example: reduce movement to half and give a chance of knockdown (during movement) based on Dex and encumbrance.

[zootie]

^^ yes, I had the same wish, that would be great for many of the steep but not sheer grades. There are already working movement penalties for terrain, so I would think it very possible.

I also had a thought about being able to run over the edge and automatically "fall" at a heightened movement rate, then taking "falling damage" by using a trigger on the slope face to inflict x amount of damage when the player crossed it heading down. The Grease spell effect might serve as a base for this, it has altered movement rate and chance of bellyflopping.

All highly theoretical on my part of course, I have no idea if the toolset could do that. I looked for climbing mods and found a couple but haven't looked farther.

Modifié par zootie, 01 décembre 2011 - 11:20 .