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[Someone With Mass]

chris2365 wrote...
If you've read the leak, can you tell me if it's on par with Bioware's previous games. I managed to stop myself from reading, but I need to know if it's at their quality of storytelling ( No spoilers please!)

Is it on par with the other games? Definitely, if not better. Though, it needs some work here and there.

[Someone With Mass]

Il Divo wrote...

As much as I'm looking forward to ME3, I can easily see how what started as a fun, innovative idea: "Let's make a sci-fi trilogy with transferable saves!" can eventually give way to a writer being tired/jaded. It's a long commitment.

Really didn't help when they introduced ten new squadmates either.

[chris2365]

Ghost-621 wrote...

chris2365 wrote...

Ghost-621 wrote...

Well, Bioware, like it or not. This the the rut you've driven yourself into. You had to diverge from Reapers to killing a terminator while risking 50 squadmates. You shot yourself in both feet, and now your series is crippled because you don't know what to do with it.

Dig yourself out of it. By that, finish what you started. Don't "forget" and retcon the crap out of the Mass Effect story any more.

Well, games with a 95+ rating often require such sacrifices. It's what makes an awesome game. Besides, as others have stated, it's not like he's alone

I'm going to go ahead and call bullcrap on that. A game with  a 95+ rating doesn't need to have its story and lore butchered to keep it that way. Look at the Half-Life series. In no way was its story butchered or have new "features" implemented that contradicted the lore, and it stayed awesome.

I know he isn't alone, I was regarding the storywriting team as a whole in my previous post.

I know that a game requires it's other elements to be just as strong as it's story. In Bioware games, the story and role-playing elements are what attract most of us. If they aren't good, the game won't be as good. Sorry if my post wasn't clear

[Ghost-621]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

As much as I'm looking forward to ME3, I can easily see how what started as a fun, innovative idea: "Let's make a sci-fi trilogy with transferable saves!" can eventually give way to a writer being tired/jaded. It's a long commitment.

Really didn't help when they introduced ten new squadmates either.

It was an idiotic move. I mean, I enjoy the characters, but it was way too much. I got the "ragtag team" feeling from the first one, and it also had a level of intimacy to it as well.

Can't change the past, sadly.

Modifié par Ghost-621, 30 novembre 2011 - 03:05 .

[Il Divo]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Really didn't help when they introduced ten new squadmates either.

True, and I think even more than introducing the new squad-mates, making them killable was what truly shot them in the foot. I understand what they were trying to go for with the Suicide Mission, but they should have kept the whole project in mind while designing that, instead of the "everyone dies!" mentality. No one will be pleased if their respective favorite character doesn't get the "perfect send off" to the ME trilogy.

[Alex_SM]

Il Divo wrote...

As much as I'm looking forward to ME3, I can easily see how what started as a fun, innovative idea: "Let's make a sci-fi trilogy with transferable saves!" can eventually give way to a writer being tired/jaded. It's a long commitment.

There's an easy way to keep everything tied and avoid the headaches.

Write the whole story arc in the first place. Writte every major decision (the ones which affect story, not the ones with cosmethig effects) and it's consequences before jumping into the development of the first game. 

Then everything is under control. 

[Sgt Stryker]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

As much as I'm looking forward to ME3, I can easily see how what started as a fun, innovative idea: "Let's make a sci-fi trilogy with transferable saves!" can eventually give way to a writer being tired/jaded. It's a long commitment.

Really didn't help when they introduced ten new squadmates either.

Or a brand-new enemy faction that we only directly encounter in 3 missions, and that includes the finale.

[KenKenpachi]

Someone With Mass wrote...

chris2365 wrote...
If you've read the leak, can you tell me if it's on par with Bioware's previous games. I managed to stop myself from reading, but I need to know if it's at their quality of storytelling ( No spoilers please!)

Is it on par with the other games? Definitely, if not better. Though, it needs some work here and there.

FORSOOTH! Surely Yea Jest, Or Verily  I Sayeth You art a Barber-monger...Or a Beadle foreth LOKI! *Barnishes mjolnir*

I Durst You foul Fiend Come Hither so I shall Smite thou like the Frost Giants.

[Ghost-621]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

As much as I'm looking forward to ME3, I can easily see how what started as a fun, innovative idea: "Let's make a sci-fi trilogy with transferable saves!" can eventually give way to a writer being tired/jaded. It's a long commitment.

Really didn't help when they introduced ten new squadmates either.

Or a brand-new enemy faction that we only directly encounter in 3 missions, and that includes the finale.

Are you talking about Cerberus?! Wow, talk about overhyping.

[Someone With Mass]

Ghost-621 wrote...

Are you talking about Cerberus?! Wow, talk about overhyping.

No, that'd be the Collectors.

[Sgt Stryker]

Erm, no. I was talking about the Collectors. Cerberus was around since ME1.

edit: lol, ninja'd

Modifié par Sgt Stryker, 30 novembre 2011 - 03:11 .

[Il Divo]

KenKenpachi wrote...

FORSOOTH! Surely Yea Jest, Or Verily  I Sayeth You art a Barber-monger...Or a Beadle foreth LOKI! *Barnishes mjolnir*

I Durst You foul Fiend Come Hither so I shall Smite thou like the Frost Giants.

Right, so I'm going to be taking your copy of Skyrim now. Clearly you've had enough for today.

[Ghost-621]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Erm, no. I was talking about the Collectors. Cerberus was around since ME1.

edit: lol, ninja'd

I stand corrected.

No. You can never have enough Skyrim. Never. NEVER.

[Il Divo]

Alex_SM wrote...

There's an easy way to keep everything tied and avoid the headaches.

Write the whole story arc in the first place. Writte every major decision (the ones which affect story, not the ones with cosmethig effects) and it's consequences before jumping into the development of the first game. 

Then everything is under control. 

Agreed, but I think changing the structure of the suicide mission alone would have helped substantially. I'm even curious as to how many authors really have their entire plotlines planned in advance? I know often times it can vary depending on whether there is substantial hope for a sequel being made, etc.

[KenKenpachi]

Il Divo wrote...

KenKenpachi wrote...

FORSOOTH! Surely Yea Jest, Or Verily  I Sayeth You art a Barber-monger...Or a Beadle foreth LOKI! *Barnishes mjolnir*

I Durst You foul Fiend Come Hither so I shall Smite thou like the Frost Giants.

Right, so I'm going to be taking your copy of Skyrim now. Clearly you've had enough for today.

BEGONE YOUR BRAGGAT OF AN APRONMAN! OR I SHALL SMITE THEE!

[Mr. MannlyMan]

Yeah, they kinda flubbed that one.

Still, I'm hoping that they've woven those outcomes into a conclusion that's satisfying and that makes sense. Good luck, guys.

[onelifecrisis]

Appropriate sig is appropriate.

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Modifié par onelifecrisis, 30 novembre 2011 - 03:30 .

[Dilandau3000]

I don't think the suicide mission concept was a good idea to begin with, but if they absolutely wanted to do it they really should've done it in the last game of the trilogy, where they didn't have to worry about continuity into the next game.

As for planning out the entire story, I'm sure they had a good idea of where the story's going to end up, but the details of how to get there are filled in as you go (that's how I write, anyway). I read somewhere that Liara and Ash/Kaidan were deliberately excluded from being squadmates in ME2 because they knew these characters had to survive into ME3.

The difficulty here is not in resolving the Reaper situation; that's the easy part as far as writing is concerned, and maybe some of your choices result in the Volus going extinct or something, but that again is not the truly hard part.
The thing is that you have a (too) large collection of characters that you spent a whole game making the player care about. If these characters survived, the player wants them to play a significant role and to have a satisfying arc and send-off and everything, but at the same time the story still has to make sense if they're not present. That's going to be more difficult the bigger the role of the character (so I imagine it'll be worst for Garrus and Tali, who are going to be squadmates again if they survived).

Even in ME2 you saw the effect of too many characters and too much freedom. In ME1, the post-mission debriefings always involved the entire crew, but in ME2 Shepard rarely interacts with anyone other than Jacob and Miranda in the briefing room, just because the writers couldn't be sure who else would be on board at that point. Most of the other characters only show up in the briefing room after their own recruiting mission.

And that's a worrying thought for ME3. Garrus and Tali are apparently squadmates, but are they going to be absent (or just standing in the background) for most of the story cutscenes because the writers aren't sure they survived and they don't want to write and produce multiple variations of the same cutscenes? Are the non-squadmate suicide mission survivors going to be more than just cameos? I certainly hope so, but I'm a bit sceptic to be honest.

What I really hope is that they're not rushing this out the door. I'd much rather have the game delayed another six months and have this handled properly.

[Dilandau3000]

I don't think the suicide mission concept was a good idea to begin with, but if they absolutely wanted to do it they really should've done it in the last game of the trilogy, where they didn't have to worry about continuity into the next game.

As for planning out the entire story, I'm sure they had a good idea of where the story's going to end up, but the details of how to get there are filled in as you go (that's how I write, anyway). I read somewhere that Liara and Ash/Kaidan were deliberately excluded from being squadmates in ME2 because they knew these characters had to survive into ME3.

The difficulty here is not in resolving the Reaper situation; that's the easy part as far as writing is concerned, and maybe some of your choices result in the Volus going extinct or something, but that again is not the truly hard part.
The thing is that you have a (too) large collection of characters that you spent a whole game making the player care about. If these characters survived, the player wants them to play a significant role and to have a satisfying arc and send-off and everything, but at the same time the story still has to make sense if they're not present. That's going to be more difficult the bigger the role of the character (so I imagine it'll be worst for Garrus and Tali, who are going to be squadmates again if they survived).

Even in ME2 you saw the effect of too many characters and too much freedom. In ME1, the post-mission debriefings always involved the entire crew, but in ME2 Shepard rarely interacts with anyone other than Jacob and Miranda in the briefing room, just because the writers couldn't be sure who else would be on board at that point. Most of the other characters only show up in the briefing room after their own recruiting mission.

And that's a worrying thought for ME3. Garrus and Tali are apparently squadmates, but are they going to be absent (or just standing in the background) for most of the story cutscenes because the writers aren't sure they survived and they don't want to write and produce multiple variations of the same cutscenes? Are the non-squadmate suicide mission survivors going to be more than just cameos? I certainly hope so, but I'm a bit sceptic to be honest.

What I really hope is that they're not rushing this out the door. I'd much rather have the game delayed another six months and have this handled properly.

[onelifecrisis]

jreezy wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

Appropriate sig is appropriate.

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Appropriate sig is pretty funny. I applaud thee.

Thanks man 

[TheRealJayDee]

So, the lead writer is tired of Mass Effect and Bioware doesn't think things through in the slightest when designing the middle part of a planned trilogy? Well, it's not like the new squadmates and the suicide mission are basically all there is in ME2 and that the whole concept of the series was to import your actions and decisions from game to game.

Whatever, the real issue is that I can't use my Kinect controls while engaging in some awesome multiplayer missions. I mean, multiplayer was planned since the beginning of the trilogy, why not make it work properly with all the other cool new features now? Serious lack of focus and priorities there, guys...!




Okay, I'm being an ass and that's not what I normally do, but some things kind of upset me. Ah, I guess I should be happy he is honest about messing things up with the SM, that's actually refreshing. So yeah, kudos Mr. Walters for admitting that Bioware can make wrong decisions!

[GMagnum]

aye dam if dey die n mas effct 2 den jus say dey turn in2 robocop lyke shep did wen he die dat simpl tbh i shuld send dat n 2 casey hudson but he hella scary cuz he tke steroids n hurt ppl at da bioware studio tbh

[Sgt Stryker]

Dilandau3000 wrote...

What I really hope is that they're not rushing this out the door. I'd much rather have the game delayed another six months and have this handled properly.

On a positive note, another delay would give me plenty of time to play SW:TOR. Not that another delay is happening, of course.