131 réponses à ce sujet

[Arius23]

Dragon Age II, Rage, and Many More Turkeys of 2011

http://www.gamepro.c...urkeys-of-2011/

They compare it to disappointing games like Rage and Duke Nukem Forever.

I was disatisfied that the game didn't address any loose ends from Origins and took out the Warden, but the game has slowly been growing on me.  The combat is certainly better, especially with the new patches that stop exploding bodies.

Was DA2 really that big of a disappointment?

[Brockololly]

Yes, Dragon Age 2 really was that much of a disappointment for a great many people.

I think the Gamepro person in the article sums it up pretty well:

But Dragon Age 2's greatest crime is not the cut-and-paste dungeons, nor is it the MMO-like fetch quests and mob battles. No, my biggest problem is that BioWare took a good idea and did an exceptionally poor job of executing it. The third act in particular is egregiously rushed -- sources in the studio have told me that a lot of it has to do with a hard deadline for release -- and makes absolutely no sense. Let's face it, Anders is an irredeemable moron.

I don't want to say that Dragon Age II is completely wrecked now, but it's definitely damaged goods. And as much as BioWare promises that Dragon Age III will be different, I think it'll take a pretty remarkable turnaround to get this series back on track. What a shame.

DA2 did play with some interesting ideas but they were mostly exceedingly poorly implemented. And for a fair number of people, everything surrounding the release has kind of tainted their view of Dragon Age as a franchise and to some extent BioWare.

[TEWR]

Didn't Gamepro give it praising reviews when it came out?

[Zjarcal]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Didn't Gamepro give it praising reviews when it came out?

Well the picks in that article are from a single staff member (each pick from a different one). The person who reviewed it could be another one. Not sure how Gamepro works, but in some sites and magazines you have some wildly different opinions amongst editors even after the official reviews are out (sometimes you even have a "second opinion" included in the official reviews).

Modifié par Zjarcal, 30 novembre 2011 - 06:09 .

[TEWR]

Good point. For some reason though this DAII review won't load for me.

[tmp7704]

Not sure why it's a surprise -- bagging on the previous game when the new installment is released is par for the course (see: DA2 launch)

They're just starting it a wee bit early this time

edit: slightly more serious, yes. The disappointment with the game was pretty big. The average score from the reviewers (rather than users) being considerably lower than that of the first game, and similar to the Awakening rating, it's quite telling. But it's not somethiing you were going to hear openly early after the launch.

Modifié par tmp7704, 30 novembre 2011 - 06:28 .

[ImoenBaby]

It's almost interesting that GamePro originally gave this "disappointment" an 80, but not really.  I get it: GamePro has more than one reviewer. It's just rather convienient the magazine is voicing its disapproval now, after months of widespread fan backlash on the interwebs.

I'd say GamePro knows many fans feel DA2's professional metacritic score was inflated, and are aware of how this reflects on the magazine's integrity.  And maybe disappointment has always been their honest opinion of the game. If they're counting on multiple reviewers to explain away the discrepancy between "80" and "damaged goods", they only look incoherent and disorganized, and I don't think I'm being cynical when I say they lack integrity.

Here's the link to the original review: http://www.gamepro.c.../dragon-age-ii/ There's some concern over features many irate gamers found significantly flawed, yet in the end, the game scores an 80.

Why do people read game reviews in the first place? To get an honest idea of what a game is like. The numerical score is supposed to indicate the quality of the overall experience, according to the reviewer. It's a definitiive and compact review - so valuable to consumers and the developers riding on their game's success - but if I can't trust the numbers a publication puts out, I wouldn't bother with it in the future.  

*edit for it's vs. its. 1:30 am does that to me.

Modifié par ImoenBaby, 30 novembre 2011 - 06:33 .

[MindFlayer360]

Brockololly wrote...

And for a fair number of people, everything surrounding the release has kind of tainted their view of Dragon Age as a franchise and to some extent BioWare.

Especially this for me, to the point where I'll freely admit that a sizeable amount of my feelings regarding DA2 can be directly attributed to this. Info released regarding DA:O's development (at least from when I began to follow it) was more open and honest (in regards to what kind of game it was; I knew exactly what to expect long before the game was released). How they handled DA2, at least, was a huge disappointment.

[SphereofSilence]

8 of 10 as an average score isn't bad usually.

However, in this case, a drop from an expected 9, to 8 is BIG. So much high expectations that went along with DA2 before release, from a company of the calibre of Bioware no less.

[Dormiglione]

The article sums it up very well. The goal to keep the deadline at all cost fired back in many ways.

[BomimoDK]

SphereofSilence wrote...

8 of 10 as an average score isn't bad usually.

However, in this case, a drop from an expected 9, to 8 is BIG. So much high expectations that went along with DA2 before release, from a company of the calibre of Bioware no less.

8/10 is pretty bad when it's a cover for the real 6/10 score that the flaws drag it down to. If you compare it objectively to a finished game, you get that score. Also why a Bethesda game objectively can't ever exceed 9/10. Too sloppy coding. even if the glitches are almost features.

Only reason DAII got so high scores was because the reviewers feared the backlash and massive explotion if people actually loved it. Too bad they didn't. They just liked it. Magazines suffered a case of reverse backlash. "are you all bought" was the question after launch. I remember clearly how people started threads here feeling deceived about the quality of the game.

That and we still have no tactical combat cam on PC, even though it was demonstrated November before launch. In some instances, when i have a bad day. I think this game is ****. On a really really good day i just ignore it all for the sake of lore consumption.

Modifié par BomimoDK, 30 novembre 2011 - 07:26 .

[Fraevar]

Brockololly wrote...

Yes, Dragon Age 2 really was that much of a disappointment for a great many people.

I think the Gamepro person in the article sums it up pretty well:
*snip*

DA2 did play with some interesting ideas but they were mostly exceedingly poorly implemented. And for a fair number of people, everything surrounding the release has kind of tainted their view of Dragon Age as a franchise and to some extent BioWare.

Pretty much what Brock says - the idea of having a game based around actual interpersonal relationships of a group of refugees who have to move to a strange new city and get caught up in its politics? Fantastic idea. MMO-like fetchquests, spamming enemies, lack of proper tactical control on PC, a UI that feels unintuitive on PC (5 clicks to set a tactic as opposed to 2 in DAO = grumpy gamer) and an Act 3 that completely falls apart because they were rushing to get it done? A complete disaster, and not something I would care to see repeated in another BioWare game, ever. So yes, Dragon Age as a franchise did suffer in my eyes because of Dragon Age 2.

[lobi]

Reviewers all praised the behooies outa this game leading up to and at release. After Fan backlash they all started backpedaling like mad trying to salvage their own credibility. Suddenly the originally minor faults are now glaring errors? Or did they find the one person who had not said it was the 'best thing evah' to go 'meh'.
Eff the reviewers, eff gamepro and eff the whole lying ashhole ridden industry. The truth may be 'out there' but you will not find it in professional game reviews.
edit: This is in no way a defence of DA2.
edited edit. Rise to power is a good game, as long as you remember that is its name.

Modifié par lobi, 30 novembre 2011 - 09:23 .

[Firky]

Isn't it inconsistent to expect reviewers to both have enough integrity to call it as they see it, yet expect them to score precisely how you'd want them to score?

Reviews are a different matter. That's more about knowing your audience and providing info, in my opinion.

If, (according to one of many possible criteria) a review score is supposed to reflect the reviewer's overall impression of the game, it is entirely possible that the overall impression might not have been adversely affected by things like reused areas, and the review text might not necessarily be as glowing or as damning as the score, or entirely match.

Review scores are a much more complex business than people give them credit for. (And people take them very seriously.)

(Shut up, Firky. You promised yourself you wouldn't get into this topic again. And you promised you would stop talking to yourself.)

[lobi]

lobi wrote...
/rant

Ok need to apologise to Kat Bailey here for giving the impression she has not been consistant she has, but others have not.

Modifié par lobi, 30 novembre 2011 - 09:33 .

[lobi]

.

Modifié par lobi, 30 novembre 2011 - 09:32 .

[Eudaemonium]

Firky wrote...
(Shut up, Firky. You promised yourself you wouldn't get into this topic again. And you promised you would stop talking to yourself.)

Talking to yourself is the mark of a brilliant mind.

[Firky]

lobi wrote...
Ok need to apologise to Kat Bailey here for giving the impression she has not been consistant she has, but others have not.

There are positive reviewers that have been very consistent, too.

If gaming is something that's important to people, it's really important to find sources of information that they trust and can identify with.

Edit: Firky, Eudaemonium thinks you are brilliant. Keep talking to yourself. Now, let's invent something that flies.

Modifié par Firky, 30 novembre 2011 - 09:38 .

[lobi]

Here is Kats blog fom July on 1up about DA2 for interest and perhaps justice great or no.

Modifié par lobi, 30 novembre 2011 - 09:58 .

[Eudaemonium]

Firky wrote...

Edit: Firky, Eudaemonium thinks you are brilliant. Keep talking to yourself. Now, let's invent something that flies.

It was something my doctoral supervisor said to me once. I quoted it back to her about 6 months later and she was like "yeah, kind of person thinks that!"

Lulz were had.

Also people ahve already invented flying things, you need to do something spectacular like... like a moose!

Like Pegasus but more derp.

I would actually contribute something serious to this discussion, but I haven't really got anything constructive to say: DA2 is heavily flawed, I love it still, I hope they actually make a finished game next time.

[AlexXIV]

The deadline thing is more or less an open secret. Even devs admitted it by now, even if not directy. Right here on this very forum. Only thing missing is one of the doctors admitting to it. But honestly I agree with people saying that gamepro just jumped the bandwagon. Different reviewers, right, one at release and one half a year later, right. They are rowing back, that's what.

[Lord Gremlin]

Well, to be honest DA2 was way bigger disappointment to me then Duke Nukem Forever. I disliked 2 weapon limit and regenerating health, not to mention loading times on PS3. But I still enjoyed it and played through DNF campaign 4 times. DA2? I've never replayed it and actually felt offended when I've completed it. Maybe if I have never played DAO and got DA2 for $20 I would have thought it's ok. Too bad I've enjoyed DAO and it's expansions (except for crap song of leliana) and pre-ordered Signature Edition of DA2.
My story is opposite of yours, OP. It took me some time to actually realize how bad (in MY opinion) DA2 was. Initially it was sort of... Shock maybe? You know, you anticipate the game, you loved previous one, it's hard to finally believe it's that bad.

[Everwarden]

Rojahar wrote...

When reviewers hate on DA2, it comes as very "Hey, look at me! I hate DA2 just like a lot of people! I'm in-touch with gamers like a good reviewer should be! Oh, and I'm a cool kid too!" but then again I think a lot of people around here hate on DA2 with as much hyperbole as they do just because it's the gamer-hipster thing to do.

I hated on DA2 before it was cool.