131 réponses à ce sujet

[Persephone]

Ukki wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Rojahar wrote...

When reviewers hate on DA2, it comes as very "Hey, look at me! I hate DA2 just like a lot of people! I'm in-touch with gamers like a good reviewer should be! Oh, and I'm a cool kid too!" but then again I think a lot of people around here hate on DA2 with as much hyperbole as they do just because it's the gamer-hipster thing to do. Whoever hates DA2 the most gets The Prize. I did think it was funny how forums generally hated DA2 while reviewers (at least initially) liked it, then the reviewers bashed the DLC - but uh-oh, people liked those. Being a sheep sure is hard. lolgamingjournalism?

Exactly this. Bandwagons, everyone loves to hop on them.

Feel free to think so. I "hated" (disliked) DA2 before I even knew this forum existed. So there was no bandwagon to hop on..

Every rule has its exceptions. 

I for one was not all that impressed by Skyrim. Better than Oblivion? Yes, that isn't hard. But once again, a shiny package with little inside. To me anyway. I guess it's my "DAII" of the year.

[Gunderic]

after seeing the preview of SWTOR I don't think that source should be given much credibility or at least, only with caution.

[TheShadowWolf911]

i dislike a lot of changes the game made from the original, as well as some of the additions, but comparing to Duke Nukem Forever seems very harsh, as its a good game by itself despite the amount of crap i give it.

[tariq071]

TheShadowWolf911 wrote...

i dislike a lot of changes the game made from the original, as well as some of the additions, but comparing to Duke Nukem Forever seems very harsh, as its a good game by itself despite the amount of crap i give it.

Yes it is, it would be much closer to compare it to Arcania:Gothic Tale...very similar with expectations , very similar with dissapointment and lack of quality just to start with.

Glad to see that at least some of the game reviewers are correcting themselves now that moratorium for fair reviews  has passed.I definitely like that they share my opinion of Anders, which is not different for other companions and MC alike.

@Persephone

Skyrim is far from being perfect game(definitely step back from Morrowind) but it definitely beats game where 60% of gameplay comes down to monorailed fighting waves of magicaly spawned parashooting dwarves anonymous/thugs anonymous in same dull and lifeless enviroment...At least they still have lore books in there...

Modifié par tariq071, 02 décembre 2011 - 01:40 .

[Gibb_Shepard]

tariq071 wrote...

TheShadowWolf911 wrote...

i dislike a lot of changes the game made from the original, as well as some of the additions, but comparing to Duke Nukem Forever seems very harsh, as its a good game by itself despite the amount of crap i give it.

Yes it is, it would be much closer to compare it to Arcania:Gothic Tale...very similar with expectations , very similar with dissapointment and lack of quality just to start with.

Glad to see that at least some of the game reviewers are correcting themselves now that moratorium for fair reviews  has passed.I definitely like that they share my opinion of Anders, which is not different for other companions and MC alike.

@Persephone

Skyrim is far from being perfect game(definitely step back from Morrowind) but it definitely beats game where 60% of gameplay comes down to monorailed fighting waves of magicaly spawned parashooting dwarves anonymous/thugs anonymous in same dull and lifeless enviroment...At least they still have lore books in there...

Skyrim has absolutely horrid gameplay. Hand to hand combat is absolutey terrible, the most repetitive form of combat i have played in a while. Magic in this game is about the only thing that can make the gameplay bearable.

But TES games weren't really ever for me. The lack of a good storyline alone really kills the experience for me. It's funny, i adore FO 3 and NV, but can't stand their medieval counterparts. I just find them so boring in comparison to FO's completely unique atmosphere.

[OMTING52601]

I don't think Skyrim and DA should be compared in any way. That RPG tag is a misnomer. It's like comparing Animal Farm to Winnie the Pooh because they are both fiction books with animals. Skyrim is an open-world RPG, and by definition looses the ability to have a strong, well-detailed singular core story and three dimensional main character(s). I've played my fair share of OW and I don't like any of them all that well, especially not more recent versions like Fable or earlier Elder Scrolls. I just feel like if I want to play OW then I'll hook up with a PnP group or *gak gak* sign up for WoW. Not my cuppa. I'm not knocking OW if that's what you like, most of my friends who play RPG's thing they're the best, like, evah and there's nothing wrong with that but it's a completely different set up to DA, Origins or 2.

Back to topic, I apologize for loosing the thread for a second. GamePro jumping on, as it were, is well, IMO, to be expected. In fact, I don't think they are actually jumping on anything. I mean, the article's topic was holiday-themed(Thanksgiving in the States) and it seemed to me like the reviewer was probably just giving his opinion on the game, since he obviously didn't do the original review. As far as the original review goes, a lot of review sites(regardless of what medium they review) make their money doing so. Pissing off game companies by tanking their big label products prior to or right out of the gate is a good way NOT to get early access to said company's next release. And if they can't stay relevant, they are out of the game. So, while devs/companies may not ACTUALLY pay in cash(and most review sites explicitly state they weren't 'paid' to give the review) a currency of sorts is changing hands.

IMO the only 'reviews' that are worth a damn are word of mouth, from other players, and very occasionally some small, independent site(s) with solid reps for honest scoring/overviews. Those that aren't directly or indirectly influenced by devs/companies. FWIW.

[ImoenBaby]

Firky wrote...

Reviewers, and their opinions on the same game, vary wildly.

Sure - now give them the same stage at the game's release ...not when it's safe to hate on a very widely criticized game. And by "safe" I mean " oh look, we reviewers are currently free from commercial pressure from the game's label" and "oh look, our readers are calling us on our b.s, but enough time has passed so maybe they'll forgive us?"  
 

The idea that there is only one correct opinion on a game is ridiculous.

Actually , the idea that the same magazine can declare an 80 to be one of the most disappointing games of the year is absurd. Thinking that disappointed subscribers and consumers are demanding only one correct opinion on a game is ridiculous.

[Firky]

Oh, good timing. I was just checking back.

I'm happy to disagree on the second point, if you are. And, yeah, I agree that lots of people take scores seriously. I'd still argue that the info in the review and knowing the audience is important. (Edit: To clarify. Probably, the reviewer thought it was a great game. Others didn't. It can still be a disappointment overall, in my opinion, because it disappointed a very significant proportion of the fanbase. (Contribs for our mag just submitted our personal GOTYs and I'm amazed by how different they are - the ones I've seen.)

I'm not sure what you mean by the first point, though, my apologies. But, I think the timing of reviews varies, if that's what you mean. I had one big budget RPG this year 3 weeks early, another I bought my own copy of, because the review copy was so late.

Edit: Incidentally, I used to be a music teacher, marking performances for school students in their final year. Those scores were taken INCREDIBLY seriously. By everyone. Luckily, the Education department mandated that 3 markers had to be present. It's amazing how the same cello concerto can get 20/20, 15/20 and 13/20 when three different musicians bring their unique experiences to the table. Average the scores, it's procedure. Oh, and I'm not saying that the way gaming doesn't shouldn't be held up to scrutiny. Nothing wrong with improving anything.

Modifié par Firky, 02 décembre 2011 - 06:50 .

[OMTING52601]

Firky, I wish more review places worked like the one you work for, but from my experience, they don't. Way back, lol, I wrote book reviews for several different publications/web sites. If I read a book I just couldn't stand, I'd post to the group why I really disliked it and then, per the official rules at all of these places, the book would be put up for someone else to review. At that point, I thought the two reviews should have been sent out with an average score, should the other review have been much better than mine.

However, that wasn't even close to the case. If I tanked a book, but someone else said they loved it, my review was shelved and the 'good' review got sent/posted/printed inside the book. My guess is this may be a closer view of how DA 2 came out to 'great' reviews from the press in near total opposition to the actual buyers. Now, however, the 'press' is between a rock and a hard place because they don't want to lose their own buyers due to questions of integrity, but they still have to walk a thin line to not ****** off publishers.

[Firky]

That must have been soul destroying. (At least, it would be for me. I'd walk.)

I'm a freelancer, free of any office politics, but I've never felt an ounce of pressure from anywhere. (And our games editor, in the office, recently gave a 1/10.) I just gave my first ever 10/10 to a $12 Indie game. I was going to award a 3/10 a few months ago, but I told the Editor what I thought of the game before I submitted it (he didn't know my intended score) and we decided to use the pages to review Bastion instead. And Bastion is AMAZING. To my mind, that wasn't a case of covering up a bad review, it was using valuable page space for an amazing Indie.

It's complicated.

[OMTING52601]

LOL, it totally pissed me off. From then on, if I found a book to be less than a 'c' score, I'd simply put it back in the queue and say CNF(could not finish). No way was I going to waste my time to finish said work and then write a review just to have it quashed. Then again, I never once based my review off anything but the subject matter at hand, with a subjective eye. Meaning if a book came in that had LGBT overtones or was politically charged, I evaluated the writing and consistency, I didn't make my review about how I didn't like the politics or I didn't like m/m romance or whatever. After all, I could read, I knew what I was getting into...

But I digress. I can understand folks getting a bit perturbed about the perceived 'late comers' to the 'DA 2 was a royal muckery of a game', so to speak if that's your opinion. I was just trying to point out the other side of the coin being that game review(ers)/mags/sites have to keep certain fiscal ideals in mind. They can deny it til they are blue in the face, but I rarely see a Big Name Title get crappy early reviews. In fact, I don't know that I can think of a single one I've read - admittedly I don't read them all or even half of them- that's ever been below a C grade. YMMV, FWIW.

[Annihilator27]

And now Gamepro is shutting down.

[ozmiz]

Well enjoyed reading all everyone had to say.

For myself I place the game "close" to the avg review of 8/10, around 7.5. I think if this game had been made by a different gaming company, with different lore and the same features, it would have still got the same review.

If we had bought it from some fledgling gaming company under a different name and lore, some of us would have liked it well enough, and there in is the problem! We had higher expectations because of (a) the company name ( DA:O sequel/follow-up.

Really its not that bad of a game and I would place it on the level of some of the RPGs I played in the past while I waited on Bioware to release a new game. I have had fun playing, bought the item combo item pack and will most likely pick up the rest of the DLC.

I'll even play it through one more time most likely, while I wait for Mass Effect 3. Here is hoping they don't decide to do major redesigns to ME3.

[Morroian]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Skyrim has absolutely horrid gameplay. Hand to hand combat is absolutey terrible, the most repetitive form of combat i have played in a while. Magic in this game is about the only thing that can make the gameplay bearable.

But TES games weren't really ever for me. The lack of a good storyline alone really kills the experience for me. It's funny, i adore FO 3 and NV, but can't stand their medieval counterparts. I just find them so boring in comparison to FO's completely unique atmosphere.

If melee combat is an issue in Skyrim why isn't it an issue with FO3 and NV where the melee combat is pretty similar to Skyrim?

As for the storyline the 2 main storylines in Skyrim, plus a host of smaller quests are actually well plotted (better plotted than New Vegas IMHO) and have some great background and incidental detail. Its in the dialogue that its lacking but TES games are not dialogue driven.

Modifié par Morroian, 02 décembre 2011 - 11:28 .

[Hoogies123]

It comes down to the fact that people will be looking back on DA:O fondly and DA2 with a bitter taste in their mouths and a number of face+palms. The game was rushed and many "fixes" that bioware made to DA2 left the question as to why they felt the changes needed to be made in the first place.

When Bioware comes out with DA3 or whatever I'm just gonna pretend that DA2 never existed. I think the only thing I'll need to know is that there's turmoil in the world anyways... please let that be the only thing that carries over

[Heimdall]

Hoogies123 wrote...

It comes down to the fact that people will be looking back on DA:O fondly and DA2 with a bitter taste in their mouths and a number of face+palms. The game was rushed and many "fixes" that bioware made to DA2 left the question as to why they felt the changes needed to be made in the first place.

When Bioware comes out with DA3 or whatever I'm just gonna pretend that DA2 never existed. I think the only thing I'll need to know is that there's turmoil in the world anyways... please let that be the only thing that carries over

  I'm sure more will carry over, but really, it probably won't be anymore than was carried over from DA:O.  A few extra quests, maybe a scene or two differant, minimal impact.  It's not as if DA2 had many large decisions to pass on anyway.  (Even somebody who like the game like me has that complaint)

[BruddaVoodu]

I recently picked up a copy of Dragon 2. I figured since I was a huge fan of Origins then I should really enjoy this one. How wrong I was. I played about 30 hours into with this hope that things would get better. How is it that the dedication and care that obviously went into Origins is lacking in the sequal? I dont even want to finish this piece of crap.

The combat looks nice but is so freaking easy, the enemies are no different then in the first one. Even the AI in enemy combat is predictable and stupid. Oh look the enemy mage teleported again, and he did that huge exploding ball again....bet I'm gonna have to fight more shades or humans cause those are the only damn enemies there are it seems.

The companions are cliche and uninteresting for the most part. The story is lacking, I havent even finished but I bet I the Templar commander is some evil boss at the end.

This game just totally feels like the original people who made Origins laid back and let their kid brothers make it. It feels so sloppy and thin, there is no art or substance in this game. The makers of this trash owe all of us an apology.

I saw the same thing with Neverwinter Nights 2 a few years back, an incredible game gets a fan base and a flimsy crappy sequal is made with the brand name simply to cash in on the fan base. Personally I think I'm done with Bioware. I only hope the people at CDprojekt can keep the quality rpg alive with the Witcher 2, because apparently they are a dying breed.

[snfonseka]

The article didn't mention all of the flaws.

[puppy maclove]

BruddaVoodu wrote...

I recently picked up a copy of Dragon 2. I figured since I was a huge fan of Origins then I should really enjoy this one. How wrong I was. I played about 30 hours into with this hope that things would get better. How is it that the dedication and care that obviously went into Origins is lacking in the sequal? I dont even want to finish this piece of crap.

The combat looks nice but is so freaking easy, the enemies are no different then in the first one. Even the AI in enemy combat is predictable and stupid. Oh look the enemy mage teleported again, and he did that huge exploding ball again....bet I'm gonna have to fight more shades or humans cause those are the only damn enemies there are it seems.

The companions are cliche and uninteresting for the most part. The story is lacking, I havent even finished but I bet I the Templar commander is some evil boss at the end.

This game just totally feels like the original people who made Origins laid back and let their kid brothers make it. It feels so sloppy and thin, there is no art or substance in this game. The makers of this trash owe all of us an apology.

I saw the same thing with Neverwinter Nights 2 a few years back, an incredible game gets a fan base and a flimsy crappy sequal is made with the brand name simply to cash in on the fan base. Personally I think I'm done with Bioware. I only hope the people at CDprojekt can keep the quality rpg alive with the Witcher 2, because apparently they are a dying breed.

I
agree with most of what you said.... I had to force myself to finish DA2. It
was such a disappointment to me. I refuse to pre-order BW games after DA2, I will
have a wait and see approach to their games now. 



I played TW2 soon
after DA2 and that actually only made my negative feelings for DA2
worse. TW2 was everything I was expecting DA2 to be, just better. 

[Gibb_Shepard]

Morroian wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Skyrim has absolutely horrid gameplay. Hand to hand combat is absolutey terrible, the most repetitive form of combat i have played in a while. Magic in this game is about the only thing that can make the gameplay bearable.

But TES games weren't really ever for me. The lack of a good storyline alone really kills the experience for me. It's funny, i adore FO 3 and NV, but can't stand their medieval counterparts. I just find them so boring in comparison to FO's completely unique atmosphere.

If melee combat is an issue in Skyrim why isn't it an issue with FO3 and NV where the melee combat is pretty similar to Skyrim?

As for the storyline the 2 main storylines in Skyrim, plus a host of smaller quests are actually well plotted (better plotted than New Vegas IMHO) and have some great background and incidental detail. Its in the dialogue that its lacking but TES games are not dialogue driven.

Have you ever played Fallout?

First of all, VATS. Honestly, this is a gameplay changer. Second of all, Fallout has more emphasis on ranged weapons, and since i am quite good at FPS's, i enjoy it. 

Skyrim has ridiculously clunky Melee, and has no VATS like system to save it from clunkiness. Magic is the only worthwhile gameplay form in Skyrim.

[puppy maclove]

snfonseka wrote...

The article didn't mention all of the flaws.

TWO reasons why:

It would be too long to read.

 or

Some poor person is still writing it.

Modifié par jlmaclachlan, 03 décembre 2011 - 05:37 .

[FieryDove]

BruddaVoodu wrote...

I saw the same thing with Neverwinter Nights 2 a few years back, an incredible game gets a fan base and a flimsy crappy sequal is made with the brand name simply to cash in on the fan base. Personally I think I'm done with Bioware. I only hope the people at CDprojekt can keep the quality rpg alive with the Witcher 2, because apparently they are a dying breed.

Obsidian did NWN 2 not BW. And Mask of the Betrayer was awesome sauce and then some.. (Imho)

[Teddie Sage]

jlmaclachlan wrote...

snfonseka wrote...

The article didn't mention all of the flaws.

TWO reasons why:

It would too long to read.

 or

Some poor person is still writing it.

Okay, okay, we get it already, You hate the game. Stop rubbing it in the face of the actual people who LIKE this game. Dang!

[Realmzmaster]

Forummates I afraid we will have to get back on topic and stop talking about Skyrim here. You may have to take it to the off topic section otherwise the thread my get locked because it is deviating from being DA2 related.

I can only assume that Gamepro stands behind its 80% rating no matter what other lists Gamepro comes up with. Whether it be most over hyped or turkey of the year. If you give a game an 80% rating that places it in the Good catagory. I can only assume Gamepro is serving Good turkey

[FieryDove]

Realmzmaster wrote...

I can only assume that Gamepro stands behind its 80% rating no matter what other lists Gamepro comes up with. Whether it be most over hyped or turkey of the year. If you give a game an 80% rating that places it in the Good catagory. I can only assume Gamepro is serving Good turkey

It doesn't matter anymore methinks.

http://www.gamespot....=result;title;0