ed by Dave Exclamation Mark Yognaut - go forth, educate these fools! 
Modifié par TheRealJayDee, 01 décembre 2011 - 05:09 .
Rawgrim wrote...
Why do I get the feeling that the anime had alot to do with how the artstyle in DA2 ended up?
From: http://www.brightwea.../ggkorillia.htm
Fantasy is usually seen as 'escapist' fiction and that is usually said as a criticism. Fantasy readers escape from the responsibility of reality, critics of the genre say, hiding from the real world amid dragons and magic. The criticism ignores some obvious truths: all good storytelling is escapist in a very basic way ... as we are drawn into the lives of the people in the book, we forget for a time (if the writer is skillful) the stresses and details of our own lives. We immerse ourselves deeply in the tale. We are emotionally moved and intellectually engaged by what happens to the invented, imaginary people in a novel.
Sometimes, too, there's a kind of book that doesn't intend to be important, profound, or thought-provoking. It wants only to amuse and distract in an undemanding way ... much as most television and most films do. The steadily growing market for fantasy - and science fiction - over the last twenty-five years means, in the normal way of things, that there will be more and more of this sort of commercially-driven book - just as there is in other forms of popular culture. It makes about as much sense to teach or study these books as it does to critically analyze Robert Ludlum or Jackie Collins as literature, outside the context of some sort of study of the contemporary zeitgeist.
But for me it is a mistake - and a serious one - to assume that because many or most works in a given field are unambitious that the field, the genre itself, must be deemed to be trivial. We do not ever diminish the achievement of Margaret Laurence or Saul Bellow by noting that Robin Cook and Tom Clancy also write 'contemporary' fiction.
Fantasy literature has the capacity to be as ambitious, as important, as moving or thought-provoking as any other form of literature we have. Indeed, in some ways, the journeys and quests and motifs of the purest fantasy works can come closer to mirroring the inner journey of the human spirit than anything else. The patterns of myth, folklore, archetype and fairy tale that can be embedded in fantasy are ancient and immensely powerful, and the genre can tap more directly into these ancient wells than just about anything else. I'm not saying something new here: psychologists and those who have made a study of myths and legends have been noting this for years.
And let us pause to note how much all of this has to do with labels and optics. If we call a work 'magical realism' and not 'fantasy' we immediately imbue it with the aura of Marquez and Borges and can admit it into the canon forthwith. When The Handmaid's Tale was nominated for science fiction's Hugo Award some years ago, Margaret Atwood expressed amusement in print at the notion that it could be seen as a genre book, but in truth there are no criteria for defining science fiction that could possibly not include that futuristic dystopia. I have argued for years that overfocusing on labels and categories is destructive to the individual assessment of the books themselves. Square pegs and round holes are not what reading - or teaching - ought to be about.
But to return to these notes on fantasy, there's another strength of the genre that's quite different and much less discussed. Fantasy is not just about magic and myths. It is also a way of dealing with history, with elements of the past -- and this has fascinated me more and more over the past decade.
In raising this idea, an obvious question emerges: why would someone write fantasy about the past, why not historical fiction? What can fantasy do that historical fiction cannot, or, putting it another way, what traps and moral dilemmas can fantasy avoid that historical fiction cannot?
First of all, I'll argue, fantasy allows the universalizing of a story. It takes the incidents and characters out of a very specific time and place and allows the writer - and the reader - the possibility of seeing the themes, the elements of that story, as applying to a wider range of times and places. It detaches the narrative from a narrow context and permits those aspects of it that engage the writer to be considered by the reader as broadly based. In this way, paradoxically, because the story is a fantasy it may actually be seen to apply more to a reader's own life and world, not less. The fairy tale quality of fantasy brings the story home to a reader's experience of the world, offering truths about the human condition. In reading or hearing the Grimm Brothers' folktales we are all, in a very real sense, the daughter of the fisherman or the third son of the woodcutter. Folktales happen nowhere, and so they happen everywhere, and to us.
There's another element to this, and one that has particular relevance today as more and more countries go through their emergence from totalitarian tyrannies. Let me explain. In 1990 I had an extraordinary late night talk with a Polish science fiction magazine editor at a conference in The Hague. He told me that he expected, in the next year, to lose about half his writers and readers. Why? Because with the demise of communist control and censorship, many writers who had used science fiction and fantasy to write disguised stories about modern Poland would no longer have to disguise their stories. They wouldn't need the screen of the genre to get around the censors. They would set their stories in the 'real' world.
Now, I suppose one could quarrel with the notion that it is inherently 'better' to do that and I do disagree with such an assumption. But what interests me for our present purposes is simply this, the very fact that these Eastern European writers were using fantasy in this way underscores something too little realized in the west: that the genre need not only be escapist, that it can deliver core truths about our existence. That the fantasy setting allows and may expand the possibility of such things.
Many years ago the Canadian poet and scholar, Douglas Barbour of the University of Alberta, described a fantasy novel he admired as, 'The kind of escape that brings you home.' I realized, reading these words, that this was how I'd always seen the potential of the genre.
Nerevar-as wrote...
Rawgrim wrote...
Why do I get the feeling that the anime had alot to do with how the artstyle in DA2 ended up?
Unless they changed them in the last few months, the elves are the Origins type, not the DA2 ones. Sadly they went for DA2 DS. It´s surprising how changing the mouth hurts the Ogre design.
Dave Exclamation Mark Yognaut wrote...
The Grey Nayr wrote...
So it's possible that future DA material will have anime-level storytelling.
That could mean more than one thing. Are we talking Ghost in the Shell, or "WHAT NINE THOUSAND?"
Ouch! No wonder, then, and I think you may have missed out on some great stuff.craigdolphin wrote...
All I can refer to are things I've seen in-passing before I switched channels: pokemon, power rangers, dragon ball z (or whatever the heck it was called), final fantasy, etc: that sort of assorted drivel. Those are the kinds of things that I think of when I think of anime.
You jinxed it!The Grey Nayr wrote...
Well you know Bioware. They love memes. xD
Modifié par Lynata, 01 décembre 2011 - 09:25 .
based on the ground breaking video game
Brockololly wrote...
Found this trailer for the Dawn of the Seeker CG anime. All credit to NeoGAF for finding it.
So yeah, its got explosions and blood and stuff. And golems working with Ogre darkspawn. And lots of blood mages. And dragons. And more explosions and blood.
Zkyire wrote...
Brockololly wrote...
Found this trailer for the Dawn of the Seeker CG anime. All credit to NeoGAF for finding it.
So yeah, its got explosions and blood and stuff. And golems working with Ogre darkspawn. And lots of blood mages. And dragons. And more explosions and blood.
This comment on the youtube vid pretty much sums up what I feel about the complainers:
"You guys ****ing disgust me. Why all the hate, just give the damn movie a chance. Man bioware has the worst fans....
TheNoiko 5 hours ago 2"
craigdolphin wrote...
@ Dave Exclamation Mark Yognaut
LOL.
[Wall of Text Alert...]
I just think Bioware have chosen a path that cuts the heart out of their ability to emotionally engage the gamer by electing to use a cartoonish and over-the-top action style, and it makes me sad.
Lynata wrote...
Ouch! No wonder, then, and I think you may have missed out on some great stuff.
If you have an open mind and would be willing to give it a try, maybe take a look at such gems like Ghost in the Shell (cyberpunk action) or Jin-Roh (political thriller). Or, in terms of classic fantasy, the good old Record of Lodoss War. Or, if you don't mind the concept of giant "robot" action, Evangelion. Just a few pointers off the top of my head.
Modifié par Furtled, 02 décembre 2011 - 01:46 .
Monica83 wrote...
Because use the same herp derp style of da2?
because you can't turn a west product in a japanese animeish one in the middle of the series?
The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Monica83 wrote...
Because use the same herp derp style of da2?
That's no reason to outright hate it before it's been released. If you can't look past what you dislike to find something you might like about it, then you haven't really given it a chance.
.
Modifié par Dave Exclamation Mark Yognaut, 02 décembre 2011 - 02:05 .
Zkyire wrote...
This comment on the youtube vid pretty much sums up what I feel about the complainers:
Looks like a CGI cutscene from a PS1 game.
Anime: It's well respected within the North American community by those who are not well respected within the North American community
"Anime will allow us to tackle more meaty themes" played over vision of a
waif in full plate armour doing flips while dual wielding broadswords
Almost as ugly as Dragon Age 2. Almost.
"The great thing about anime is that it's well respected within the North American community" what. Really?
Dave Exclamation Mark Yognaut wrote...
The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Monica83 wrote...
Because use the same herp derp style of da2?
That's no reason to outright hate it before it's been released. If you can't look past what you dislike to find something you might like about it, then you haven't really given it a chance.
.
Yes, all movies must be given the benefit of the doubt, no matter what "common sense" and "watching the trailer" would lead ust to believe. Don't knock Jack and Jill until you've seen it. Twice.
Brockololly wrote...
Zkyire wrote...
This comment on the youtube vid pretty much sums up what I feel about the complainers:
Haha- some of those comments are gold:Looks like a CGI cutscene from a PS1 game.
Anime: It's well respected within the North American community by those who are not well respected within the North American community
"Anime will allow us to tackle more meaty themes" played over vision of a
waif in full plate armour doing flips while dual wielding broadswords
Almost as ugly as Dragon Age 2. Almost.
"The great thing about anime is that it's well respected within the North American community" what. Really?
Modifié par Dave Exclamation Mark Yognaut, 02 décembre 2011 - 02:24 .
Brockololly wrote...
Anime: It's well respected within the North American community by those who are not well respected within the North American community
"The great thing about anime is that it's well respected within the North American community" what. Really?
Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 02 décembre 2011 - 02:28 .
Furtled wrote...
Lynata wrote...
Ouch! No wonder, then, and I think you may have missed out on some great stuff.
If you have an open mind and would be willing to give it a try, maybe take a look at such gems like Ghost in the Shell (cyberpunk action) or Jin-Roh (political thriller). Or, in terms of classic fantasy, the good old Record of Lodoss War. Or, if you don't mind the concept of giant "robot" action, Evangelion. Just a few pointers off the top of my head.
I'll throw in the incomperable Perfect Blue (Black Swan-esque thriller), Grave of the Fireflies (heartbreaking war film) and Tokyo Godfathers (if James Stewart had been in an anime this would be it) into the recommendations.
Modifié par TheRealJayDee, 02 décembre 2011 - 03:54 .
They can suck it up. Origins is an extremely ugly and bland game visually, definitly more so than DA2. But they managed to play it okay without their eyeballs melting out of their skulls. Not to mention, most of the changes are pretty insignificant, and a lot can be chalked up to DA2 simply being set in a different place with differnet architecture and cultural values. There'll probably be a lot of shifts in art direction as the series takes us to differnet parts of Thedas.Rawgrim wrote...
Sure, alot of people like anime. Good for them. But alot of people also despise it with a passion. Changing the artstyle completely, in the middle of a game series is not a good thing. People who can`t stand the new one, will feel cheated for not being able to play through newer games and get more of the story, or they will have to suffer themselves through a game they can`t stand the look of.
Modifié par Plaintiff, 02 décembre 2011 - 06:48 .
Plaintiff wrote...
They can suck it up. Origins is an extremely ugly and bland game visually, definitly more so than DA2.
What's Bioware supposed to do? Call up everyone who ever bought a copy of Origins and take a survey? What will the eltist, nostalgia-goggle-wearing complainers do if it turns out they're in the minority?
Modifié par csfteeeer, 02 décembre 2011 - 06:53 .
Proof that the negative nellies make up the majority on this forum?csfteeeer wrote...
Plaintiff wrote...
They can suck it up. Origins is an extremely ugly and bland game visually, definitly more so than DA2.
wrongWhat's Bioware supposed to do? Call up everyone who ever bought a copy of Origins and take a survey? What will the eltist, nostalgia-goggle-wearing complainers do if it turns out they're in the minority?
It's the internet.
People here will always be in a Minority, the difference is, the Mayority won't be doing **** for BW, cause they won't care enough to post feedback, reasons as to why they liked their games, suggestions, nothing, which is not good.
David Gaider Said it himself:
Negativity > Indifference
Guest_Sareth Cousland_*
craigdolphin wrote...
I hold DA to the higher standard because that was how it was originally promoted: a dark, mature fantasy. It was not characterized as light entertainment, or trivial genre-dross. Bioware purports to make games that purpose to get the players emotionally invested, and to deal with serious themes. I interpret that to mean stories that matter, stories that should 'bring us home'.
Can you imagine how well the HBO Game of Thrones series would have been received if it featured Ned Stark as a ninja-leaping superhero? Or if the LOTR movies if they had taken a similarly avant-garde attitude to the plausibility or believability of their world? I would argue that some of the worst moments from those movies were when they flirted with permitting the action sequences to become too extreme (Legolas killing the oliphant in ROTK, for instance).
I just think Bioware have chosen a path that cuts the heart out of their ability to emotionally engage the gamer by electing to use a cartoonish and over-the-top action style, and it makes me sad.
Modifié par Sareth Cousland, 02 décembre 2011 - 07:29 .
That's such nonsense. A cartoon is not automatically immature. Art style and tone have nothing to do with subject matter. Plenty of animations deal with "mature" topics like loss, betrayal, war, sex, moral ambiguity and everything else that is present in DA:O and DA2. Some of those animations deal with these topics in a humorous manner, but that doesn't make them appropriate for children. Origins had many silly moments. By your logic, that makes it childish.Sareth Cousland wrote...
craigdolphin wrote...
I hold DA to the higher standard because that was how it was originally promoted: a dark, mature fantasy. It was not characterized as light entertainment, or trivial genre-dross. Bioware purports to make games that purpose to get the players emotionally invested, and to deal with serious themes. I interpret that to mean stories that matter, stories that should 'bring us home'.
Can you imagine how well the HBO Game of Thrones series would have been received if it featured Ned Stark as a ninja-leaping superhero? Or if the LOTR movies if they had taken a similarly avant-garde attitude to the plausibility or believability of their world? I would argue that some of the worst moments from those movies were when they flirted with permitting the action sequences to become too extreme (Legolas killing the oliphant in ROTK, for instance).
I just think Bioware have chosen a path that cuts the heart out of their ability to emotionally engage the gamer by electing to use a cartoonish and over-the-top action style, and it makes me sad.
I agree with this. A common misconception on these boards is "DA2 is more like Mass Effect". It is far less similar to Mass Effect than DA:O ever was, some gameplay mechanics aside. Imagine Mass Effect in the anime-touched style of DA2: The reaper attack on the Citadel. Exploring the Collector ship. Investigating the Collectors' home base. None of these scenes would have had their emotional impact if only a hint of anime was involved. The same holds true for Dragon Age; with the current art style, it is simply impossible to create a mood fitting for the universe, you will always end up creating a cartoon. Sorry that this is so negative, as I still love this series, but that decision is one of two critical issues from where I stand, as the art direction has such a powerful effect on the whole look & feel of the game. It is an essential part of the game's soul.
Modifié par Plaintiff, 02 décembre 2011 - 07:57 .
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