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[Sylvianus]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

Regardless of this rumour, Dragon age team considering the multiplayer would not be surprising.

After mass effect MP confirmed, some had already anticipated a chance that the same thing could happen with this franchise, if limited success confirmed. Now, this rumour from a review comes sooner than expected lol.

Well, I am not against mp, something I've always seen as positive at best, or I don't use if it isn't good. A single player game can be good with mp, so I don't really care, I am more concerned by actual and future design decisions for the single player actually. :innocent:

Well, let's also look at the obvious fact here... Bioware fans are pretty avid. If even a tenth of the fans who were on these forums were active in an online version or a MP verson (especially if that version cost a subscription fee) it would be a decent return on their investment.

Now, on the other side of the fence, for those who say "I don't care if they do MP, as long as they do SP campaign right..." what if that is one and the same? A multiplayer feature doesn't spring up out of the ground overnight. It requires a lot of coding, designing, planning, and, if it features separate content altogether, more narrative resources. This is all fine and good, as long as the multiplayer provided does NOT drain so much resources that the single player aspect is harmed.

Given the perception (and admition by some BW devs) that scarce resources caused some of the problems in the single player campaign of DA2, then what does that say when resources are divided not just between a single player campain, but a multiplayer one as well?

The idea that sitting on the sidelines on the topic doesn't affect you fails to take into account that something as big as a multiplayer engine implementation will be a huge drain on the projects resources in terms of both money and time.

You know what ?  I am fully aware that it's risky, it could be a real waste of resources. But unlike you, I do not think at all that the two are incompatible and that the single player is bound to fail because of that.

If they decided to add some multiplayer with another studio for example, it means they feel they have enough resources to do the two things simultaneously and correctly. Maybe the mp won't convince, but whatever.  BioWare has already confirmed that there would be a bigger budget with the next DA. They may be wrong, but the point is there.

Now,  If DA3 single player is a failure, I won't cry, at least not this time. I will give them my feedback calmly for the last time and it will be the last game I will buy from bioware. I'm done and move on.

If the game is a failure, it will be because the single player sucked, I will judge it for what it is without excuses. That is their fault if they aren't able to know if they can work with those two things together . But I will never say,  a game sucked because of multiplayer, without that, it could has been a-we-s-o-m-e.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 30 novembre 2011 - 11:20 .

[Ponendus]

Two things to add since I posted this last night:

1) I am fairly disheartened that we had Chris come in here and say 'keep in mind' and criticise merely the status of this information as rumour. My thinking is that if this was not true, it would just make sense to deny it outright, or at least say 'this isn't true, but we will never rule the concept of mp out completely'. What Chris has said here, is good enough to a confirmation for me.

2) My only hope now is that this was a deliberate leak. That it was done to test the fan reaction before they actually have to cop the fan reaction, at a point where they can walk it back and forget the whole thing. Things like 'it's looking great so far' in the article is what makes me think this. It sounds like they want comment on the concept of multiplayer, given that it 'looks great'. Also I imagine someone thinking 'I wonder how the fans would feel about playing AS a dragon... yeah, let's put that out there and see what happens...'. Please let it just be this and the test is now over.

Hopefully now this whole thing goes away, I am seriously worried after Chris's statement. I love this franchise so much, why oh why can't they just focus on improving the magnificence they had in the first place rather than overhauling completely (DA2) or adding unnecessary features (MP)?

Modifié par Ponendus, 30 novembre 2011 - 11:18 .

[Fast Jimmy]

dafangirl wrote...

@Fast Jimmy unless they're planning on using Frostbite 2 for the entirety of DA3 it's highly unlikely "the SP and MP will be one and the same".

"Kotaku, citing an inside source, says that players will get to take on the role of both humans or dragons. Players will be able to battle each other or A.I. enemies. This multiplayer will utilize DICE's Frostbite 2 engine, which debuted with Battlefield 3."

I didn't mean that the SP and MP engines would be one and the same, I was saying that "I don't care if they implement MP " and "as long as they don't hurt the SP expereince" would be one and the same. As I went on to explain, creating a MP experience drains resources, resources that could be used instead on the SP campaign.

[Fast Jimmy]

Sylvianus wrote...
You know what ?  I am fully aware that it's risky, it could be a real waste of resources. But unlike you, I do not think at all that the two are incompatible and that the single player is bound to fail because of that.

If they decided to add some multiplayer with another studio for example, it means they feel they have enough resources to do the two things simultaneously and correctly. Maybe the mp won't convince, but whatever.  BioWare has already confirmed that there would be a bigger budget with the next DA. They may be wrong, but the point is there.

Now,  If DA3 single player is a failure, I won't cry, at least not this time. I will give them my feedback calmly for the last time and it will be the last game I will buy from bioware. I'm done and move on.

If the game is a failure, it will be because the single player sucked, I will judge it for what it is without excuses. That is their fault if they aren't able to know if they can work with those two things together . But I will never say,  a game sucked because of multiplayer, without that, it could have been a-we-s-o-m-e.

I'm just not comfortable with this managment team's handling of "risky iinovations." While I'm fairly confident they won't put their hands in the fire twice and do something that had horrible responses in a previous game based on what they've been trying to do with DLC releases, my faith that they can do something new and exciting without mucking it up and rolling it out into production is still VERY low.

I can go back to having faith if they become a company who learns through experimentation about what to do/not to do based on things they have done in previous games. But they are far from having me convinced they can go into a room for twelve months and come out with an innovation that is well thought out, works and can keep fans entertained. Not to say they shouldn't try, but at the same time I'm just going to be waiting outside that room for twelve months waiting for disaster to strike.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 30 novembre 2011 - 11:26 .

[Chromie]

dafangirl wrote...
I just want an amazing DA3 single person experience. I don't need photorealistic graphics or explosions or demolition, I want narrative. I want companions. I want a cohesive, dynamic tale. I don't want to keep seeing retcon's and repackaging. It's a dream, but it's a good dream that's shaping into a nightmare.

We can have that and good graphics. Why does everyone think that? Witcher 2, Deus Ex (graphics are better than DA2) and hell Mass Effect 3 look great graphically there is no reason having a good story means presentation has to suffer.

[Iakus]

 My thoughts:

I'm one of those who thought Dragon Age 2's hate wasn't entirely deserved.  It managed to be a decent though not stellar game despite the changes made.  So I'm by no means a hater of the series.  I'll just hope that Bioware took it as a learning experience and try to figure out what worked and what didn't. 


That said, if this rumor turns out to be true, Dragon Age 3 becomes a "no buy" for me.  It will demonstrate to me that nothing was in fact learned.  The only reason I'm still seriously contemplating buying Mass Effect 3 is I'm effectively a captive audience due to the conclusion of Shepard's story.  I have no such connection to the Dragon Age series.  So if a "Thedas at War" or any other multiplayer gets crammed into DA3, I'm fully prepared to simply give up and leave.

I.  Will.  Walk.  Away.

Any other time I'd have dismissed that article as just another rumor.  But with ME3, I have to take it seriously.  Here's hoping that it really is a silly Internet rumor destined to die in obscurity like it never was.

Modifié par iakus, 30 novembre 2011 - 11:47 .

[Saintthanksgiving]

I said it once before... I think EA is secretly run by George Lucas.

[Ponendus]

Saintthanksgiving wrote...

I said it once before... I think EA is secretly run by George Lucas.

Ha! +10 internetz

[Fast Jimmy]

As was stated earlier, the fact that the dev weigh in was "this is a rumor until you hear it from someone besides an insider" and not "we aren't currently thinking of multiplayer, but its never out of the realm of possibility" then that, to me, says its being planned as a definite feature.

After all... why spend time making an intense game with great story, options that actually affect things later on and enjoyable gameplay when you could instead make everything mediocre, but have all the online players chase a new unlockable feature, gear or achievement every week? That's the pinacle of gaming, right? Its like playing Heroin Hero.

If any moderators or devs are reading this and multiplayer isn't currently being truly planned, you all need to come out with something a little more definitive. The topic is flaming up a bit. And not just on these boards.

[Volourn]

"This is what I'm talking about! I could sell games better then them! These repeated strageties over and over again."

BIO has a 10+ track record to show off their ability to sell games. How is your track record when it comes to selling games?

It says a lot when a game like JE sells 1.5-2mil copies for BIO it's cosnidered a ''dissapointment' sales wise while people are claiming the 760k copies sold for DS3 by Obsidian is a 'success'.

Now, BIO doesn't always do things perfectly, but to claim they don't knwo what theya re doing is ridiculous. And, EA is also no strnager to success.

People whined about DA1 pre release as well saying that it was 'betraying' BIO's roots (notiwthstanding the fact that BIO's roots were not games let alone that their first game wasn't even a RPG) yet the series has done absolutely fine.

The dcos have made hundreds of millions of dollars. To claim they don't know what theya re doing is ridiculous.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Volourn wrote...

"This is what I'm talking about! I could sell games better then them! These repeated strageties over and over again."

BIO has a 10+ track record to show off their ability to sell games. How is your track record when it comes to selling games?

It says a lot when a game like JE sells 1.5-2mil copies for BIO it's cosnidered a ''dissapointment' sales wise while people are claiming the 760k copies sold for DS3 by Obsidian is a 'success'.

Now, BIO doesn't always do things perfectly, but to claim they don't knwo what theya re doing is ridiculous. And, EA is also no strnager to success.

People whined about DA1 pre release as well saying that it was 'betraying' BIO's roots (notiwthstanding the fact that BIO's roots were not games let alone that their first game wasn't even a RPG) yet the series has done absolutely fine.

The dcos have made hundreds of millions of dollars. To claim they don't know what theya re doing is ridiculous.

r00fles!

[TEWR]

I imagine that the DA game with multiplayer would be a stand alone title. The article said it would take place in an arena, and Tevinter has an arena. One that was constructed in order to emulate the Provings the Dwarves held.

[Fast Jimmy]

A DA3 multiplayer co-op is something I could possibly get behind, but it would have to be implemented EXTREMELY well.

But just an arena fight? Why? Especially if it has to use a completely new engine to pull it off. That would just be a monumental amount of silliness.

[Ponendus]

Volourn wrote...

"This is what I'm talking about! I could sell games better then them! These repeated strageties over and over again."

BIO has a 10+ track record to show off their ability to sell games. How is your track record when it comes to selling games?

It says a lot when a game like JE sells 1.5-2mil copies for BIO it's cosnidered a ''dissapointment' sales wise while people are claiming the 760k copies sold for DS3 by Obsidian is a 'success'.

Now, BIO doesn't always do things perfectly, but to claim they don't knwo what theya re doing is ridiculous. And, EA is also no strnager to success.

People whined about DA1 pre release as well saying that it was 'betraying' BIO's roots (notiwthstanding the fact that BIO's roots were not games let alone that their first game wasn't even a RPG) yet the series has done absolutely fine.

The dcos have made hundreds of millions of dollars. To claim they don't know what theya re doing is ridiculous.

Yeah, I'm not saying that they won't make money, they most probably will. I'm just saying it's disappointing for me because MP is teh lamez.

We are allowed to be selfish on the interwebs.

[RaideDuku]

If this does end up true., I've got something to say to BioWare.

You have brought Sin to Heaven
and Doom Upon all the world.

[TEWR]

RaideDuku wrote...

If this does end up true., I've got something to say to BioWare.

You have brought Sin to Heaven
and Doom Upon all the world.

Marvel at perfection, for it is fleeting seems more appropriate for me considering DAO was a good game, DAII was a travesty and this might just be another travesty.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 01 décembre 2011 - 12:46 .

[PsychoWARD23]

I just don't get this.

Origins was their best selling game ever, then a few years later they completely change how they make and approach games?

And then when the game does poorly, they wonder what they did wrong.

And then make a game even farther from the initial direction.


wat


Edit; Like, if DA2 just crushed sales, I would understand, I wouldn't be happy about it, but I'd understand. This just doesn't make sense to me. Did anyone actually start to like BW BECAUSE of DA2? It is quite perplexing.

Modifié par PsychoWARD23, 01 décembre 2011 - 12:47 .

[Fallstar]

 I am not completely opposed to the idea of multiplayer in a Dragon Age game. But it should only be present as a little extra tagged on the end after the single player experience has been completed and polished to the same standard as Origins. I always thought it would have been fun if Bioware had released a dlc for Origins where your Warden and a buddy's Warden went on their calling and had to fight off successively harder waves of foes in some area of the deep roads.

That's the kind of thing I'm talking about, where they have already created the areas, the characters etc. And its just a fun little bit of gameplay. Co-operative play doesn't have to take a large proportion of developer resources to be successful; look at the way **** Zombies was tagged on at the end of World at War for example, yet that turned out to be the best feature of the game for me, and I pretty much bought Black ops just to play **** Zombies.

This idea of being a dragon, I'm not a fan of. Although it seems like the kind of gimmicky thing you can stick in advertising to attract certain people. I don't even know where to begin if there's another major graphical change with this rumoured new engine. The graphics in Origins had the perfect dark fantasy atmosphere, and I still don't understand Bioware's reasoning for changing them. Yet another change? It makes you think, well, what was the point then. Hopefully it is just rumours and won't go ahead.

Edit: OK I'm not sure why that word is censored, but I'm not swearing and am just referring to the game mode.

Modifié par DuskWarden, 01 décembre 2011 - 01:09 .

[Brockololly]

Fast Jimmy wrote...
If any moderators or devs are reading this and multiplayer isn't currently being truly planned, you all need to come out with something a little more definitive. The topic is flaming up a bit. And not just on these boards.

Laidlaw commented on the rumor/story on his twitter:



As for the notion this whole thing is some planned leak by BioWare to gauge fan reaction....does it really take a genius to figure out people would be pissed at news of a tacked on deathmatch MP mode? I mean, if they had to do something like this to hear what people would think about it, then they are just incredibly aloof and makes me think that BioWare still is clueless as to what the audience paying attention to DA wants. Yeah, people would be curious to see better graphics with Frostbite 2 maybe, but a deathmatch MP mode? Please.

And again, instead of tacking on MP, make a robust massive single player RPG. Look at Skyrim- its been the most played game on Steam for weeks now by a large margin and if you look at the recent Xbox Live activity chart for the past week, Skyrim, a single player RPG, is only behind Call of Duty. Even ahead of other multiplayer games like FIFA , Gears, Madden and Battlefield.

[Atakuma]

Brockololly wrote...

And again, instead of tacking on MP, make a robust massive single player RPG. Look at Skyrim- its been the most played game on Steam for weeks now by a large margin and if you look at the recent Xbox Live activity chart for the past week, Skyrim, a single player RPG, is only behind Call of Duty. Even ahead of other multiplayer games like FIFA , Gears, Madden and Battlefield.

What's your point? Do you want Bioware to copy Bethesda and make a sandbox game?

[Morty Smith]

ME3 will not have MP.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Atakuma wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

And again, instead of tacking on MP, make a robust massive single player RPG. Look at Skyrim- its been the most played game on Steam for weeks now by a large margin and if you look at the recent Xbox Live activity chart for the past week, Skyrim, a single player RPG, is only behind Call of Duty. Even ahead of other multiplayer games like FIFA , Gears, Madden and Battlefield.

What's your point? Do you want Bioware to copy Bethesda and make a sandbox game?

Not really, I think it's a "don't bother with MP if you can't get SP right" kinda post.

[Ponendus]

Atakuma wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

And again, instead of tacking on MP, make a robust massive single player RPG. Look at Skyrim- its been the most played game on Steam for weeks now by a large margin and if you look at the recent Xbox Live activity chart for the past week, Skyrim, a single player RPG, is only behind Call of Duty. Even ahead of other multiplayer games like FIFA , Gears, Madden and Battlefield.

What's your point? Do you want Bioware to copy Bethesda and make a sandbox game?

I think, but I may be wrong, that the analogy is that The Elder Scrolls games tend to make improvements from game-to-game in order to keep up with current trends. The core philosophy, general gameplay and overall 'feel' is basically the same in every installment.

Compare this to Dragon Age, which completely revamps, adds new (and some would say unnecessary) features, changes the artwork, and even core concepts like voiced protagonists etc with each installment. That is why I think Bethesda is a good role-model for how to grow, and yet keep a fanbase happy.

I do acknowledge we only have one sequel to go off here, but if this rumour is true, it points towards even more total re-hashing into the future, which is not what I want (and it appears many others).

Change for change's sake is just silly and unecessary imo. Particularly when the change is towards aspects that are already abundantly present in other franchises and leaves those of us who appreciated the original flavour with nothing but a bitter taste and nothing to quench it.

Modifié par Ponendus, 01 décembre 2011 - 01:33 .