322 réponses à ce sujet

[Eclipse_9990]

I don't really like the dual wielding pistols thing; personally I'm more of a rifle/pistol, and knife guy, but more power to anyone who into the pistol thing.

[AdmiralCheez]

Trekfanboy wrote...

I am also an avid target shooter. I am aware a using two handguns at the same time is a pretty stupid idea.

However, I'm pretty sure there are some engineers from NASA who would be "driven insane" by all the stupid things that happen in the ME games that break the laws of physics.

The M-920 Cain gun in ME2 which is essentailly a handheld "Mass Effect Nuke" that atomizes your enemies but somehow leaves the environment (floor, walls, obstacles, etc.) untouched is TOTALLY believable.

Again, I'm NOT saying I want dual handguns in ME3. I'm simply pointing out that it doesn't make sense to maintain the "suspension of disbelief" for EVERY idiotic thing in the ME universe EXCEPT the idea that someone whould use two handguns in a firefight.

Believe it or not, it's the little things that are most essential to immersion.  That's why good actiing is so valuable in movies and such--it's hard to replicate how people actually behave, and when all the little details that we usually take for granted that make something seem genuine are absent, the entire experience is ruined.

[capn233]

Someone With Mass wrote...

What is the average weight for a pistol, anyway? Close to a kilogram?

Depends. Poly frame service size auto might be something like 20-25oz or 575-715g empty.

Modifié par capn233, 01 décembre 2011 - 01:07 .

[Abraham_uk]

Someone With Mass wrote...

I have never touched real guns myself (pretty hard to get if you don't have a hunter's license where I live), but I'd imagine that shooting akimbo anything often results in misses.

What is the average weight for a pistol, anyway? Close to a kilogram?

Precisely my point. I have difficulty having my arms dangling infront of me like a zombie for thirty seconds (and that's without carrying anything). With a kilogram in one arm, almost impossible for me. A kilogram in each arm, I wouldn't be able to hold that for four seconds.

[DiebytheSword]

Someone With Mass wrote...

I have never touched real guns myself (pretty hard to get if you don't have a hunter's license where I live), but I'd imagine that shooting akimbo anything often results in misses.

What is the average weight for a pistol, anyway? Close to a kilogram?

An iconic example would be the Colt 1911, which weighs 1.105 KG (roughly) with empty magazine.  Lighter, newer weapons like FN Herstal's Five-seveN weighs 0.74 KG fully loaded.  Compare that with hand cannons like the Smith & Wesson Model 500 that can weight up to 2.32KG.

Obviously, powder loads in your rounds can and will affect how much that weight jumps in your hands during firing.

[Dean_the_Young]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Oh God, that comic was so horribly drawn.

I don't know. Tali wearing a dominatrix belt getup over a leotard has it's charms... compared to the flying Turian.

[mauro2222]

I never used a gun in my life (I hate them, so uncivilized... I prefer a bow and arrows ), but I think that dual-wielding (gah, everytime I say this I'm reminded of dual-wielding magic in Skyrim, such a flawed system) is more like "I don't care if I hit or not the target".

[lobi]

Mass Effect Player wrote...

Abraham_uk wrote...

The Woldan wrote...

You know there is a reason nobody wields two pistols at once in real life - you need the second hand to control the recoil of the pistol, if you use just one hand follow up shots are pretty slow because of the muzzle rise.
Next point is you can just aim with one at a time, the other pistol just shoots in the general direction, also with just one hand its much harder to aim steady, you'll be really shaky.
And I can imagine ejecting the heat sink would be pretty awkward and s l o w if your character doesn't have third hand.

In a nutshell: shooting one pistol with two hands is way more effective than shooting two pistols. Some may say ''but akimbo pistols is teh l33t shiat!!!!!1111zomg''. Yeah, in a (stupid) movie shooting pistols with blank ammo and where accuracy isn't important at all it probably looks cool to some people, but in my book effectiveness is teh shiat.

Oh, by the way, I've sent thousands rounds downrange, so I can speak from experience.

I have to agree. Having played Headhunters (a game where you shoot each other with laser rifles in a forest) it is virtually impossible to aim at anything. Seriously. The target is right in front of me, and I end up shoting something else. So two pistols is out of the question. As for the recoil, damn. GUYS EVEN PISTOLS ARE HEAVY!!!

They carry ammo that weighs loads. The amount of lactic acid involved in holing one and aiming building up in one arm is tremendous. Forget the recoil for one moment and think of the gun lowering due to the arm dropping. Now add the recoil and your arm will jerk making the shot inaccurate.

Learning how to use an assault rifle accurately is a skill that few people are incapable of learning! Fact. People go into army training thinking it will be easy. They find the assault rifle too heavy and their arms can't handle the weight. Two assault rifles will cause back problems. You can't carry more than two guns unless you're really strong. Name me one real life soldier who carries three or more guns in their inventory (on top of the other necessary army gear).

GUNS ARE HEAVY!!!! End of story.

I read a Navy Seal Biography, and it talked about them carrying lots of guns. On one guy he had a pistol, a sub machine gun and his standard assualt rifle.

Seal missions are brief incursions not ground pounding. Also to stay on topic, I doubt he fired them all at once.

Modifié par lobi, 01 décembre 2011 - 01:17 .

[Swampthing500]

 Dont Give EA any ideas!

[lobi]

Mass Effect Player wrote...
You don't have to tell me. I am very familiar with seals. And they are very disciplined professional soldiers. Just proving to the point you can carry more guns than you think necessary.

A particular weapon for a specific part of mission. Perhaps weapon had vital component removed and was discarded once that mission component was done or ammo was depleted.

[Someone With Mass]

DiebytheSword wrote...

An iconic example would be the Colt 1911, which weighs 1.105 KG (roughly) with empty magazine.  Lighter, newer weapons like FN Herstal's Five-seveN weighs 0.74 KG fully loaded.  Compare that with hand cannons like the Smith & Wesson Model 500 that can weight up to 2.32KG.

Obviously, powder loads in your rounds can and will affect how much that weight jumps in your hands during firing.

The Five-seven doesn't sound so bad, but that hand cannon? I probably would have better luck hitting stuff by throwing it. 

[DiebytheSword]

Someone With Mass wrote...

DiebytheSword wrote...

An iconic example would be the Colt 1911, which weighs 1.105 KG (roughly) with empty magazine.  Lighter, newer weapons like FN Herstal's Five-seveN weighs 0.74 KG fully loaded.  Compare that with hand cannons like the Smith & Wesson Model 500 that can weight up to 2.32KG.

Obviously, powder loads in your rounds can and will affect how much that weight jumps in your hands during firing.

The Five-seven doesn't sound so bad, but that hand cannon? I probably would have better luck hitting stuff by throwing it. 

If your hand is large enough to hold it comfortably, and your arm strength is good enough to keep it under control and you maintain fire discipline, your shot will be more accurate and maintain lethality at a longer distance than bullets fired from the 1911 or Five seveN.  The Hand cannon is meant for killing Grizzlies, Kodiaks and Polar Bears.  You need a bullet that big with that much powder to pierce their skulls reliably.

[capn233]

You want more mass in a pistol with a more powerful cartridge. It helps a lot with the recoil. It's simple conservation of momentum. The pistol will have the opposite momentum of the bullet.

One of the worst offenders I have shot was a Smith and Wesson Airweight snub nose .38 special. Even though it was only .38, it had a lot more recoil than the 4 and 6 inch .357 magnums (firing .357 magnum) I was shooting the same day because of the drastic difference in weight. Made me wonder if people that shoot .357 magnum out of snubs are masochists on some level.

Modifié par capn233, 01 décembre 2011 - 01:29 .

[Abraham_uk]

Loads of guns. Probably not too surprising. Navy Seals have had very good training. Good point.

For average joes, one gun is probably one to many to handle.

Advantages of SMG over Assault rifle. Is it a question of weight. The SMG must be pretty light and easy to handle (though lacking accuracy) and good for close quarters situations.

The SMG is the answer to dual wielding pistols. It does the same thing. It fires just as quickly if not faster than two pistols and you don't have the nearly impossible task of dual hand eye co-ordination.

[Someone With Mass]

DiebytheSword wrote...

If your hand is large enough to hold it comfortably, and your arm strength is good enough to keep it under control and you maintain fire discipline, your shot will be more accurate and maintain lethality at a longer distance than bullets fired from the 1911 or Five seveN.  The Hand cannon is meant for killing Grizzlies, Kodiaks and Polar Bears.  You need a bullet that big with that much powder to pierce their skulls reliably.

Jeez. No wonder that we don't have that kind of guns here. The worst that can get you here is a horny moose in the forest or a deer walking out on the road.

[GU1LD3NST3RN]

Great idea. Then we could press a button and have *two* awesome things happen!

/sarcasm

[Someone With Mass]

Mass Effect Player wrote...

FYI I think were getting off topic talking about real life gun mechanics. Remember this is Mass Effect its fiction, its made to seem believable but not realistic.

I think it was established several pages ago that dual-wield in Mass Effect would be stupid, though.

[Colintastic]

Trekfanboy wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Hey pal, I target shoot in real life.  I worked really hard to get good at it, and it drives me insane when I see people doing it wrong.  There's a point where you stop looking cool and start looking like a moron.

Ironically, my aim is really, really bad in videogames.

I am also an avid target shooter. I am aware that using two handguns at the same time is a pretty stupid idea.

However, I'm pretty sure there are some engineers from NASA who would be "driven insane" by all the stupid things that happen in the ME games that break the laws of physics.

The M-920 Cain gun in ME2 which is essentailly a handheld "Mass Effect Nuke" that atomizes your enemies but somehow leaves the environment (floor, walls, obstacles, etc.) untouched is TOTALLY believable.

Again, I'm NOT saying I want dual handguns in ME3. I'm simply pointing out that it doesn't make sense to maintain the "suspension of disbelief" for EVERY idiotic thing in the ME universe EXCEPT the idea that someone would use two handguns in a firefight.

While yes it's true the Cain should make bigger holes in things, and squad members not wearing sealed space suits when in atmosphere-less enviroments is unbelievably stupid... ME gets a vast majority of things right.

Even the travel stuff isn't too far off real scietific theories. Theoretically if you can reduce something's effective mass to zero (through eezo, the made up element which we have suspended our disbelief for) you can make it go the speed of light -- and if the recent nutrino experiments tell us anything, you can go even faster than that. There is also some quantum entanglement stuff which suggests you could also move faster than light.

As for mass relays, Stephen Hawking has some theories that black holes could be used for transporting things like wormholes. It is fact that large concentrations of mass bend space itself, this is evidenced by the way light travels around big things. It doesn't move in a straight line. Hawking thinks that if you get enough mass you can bend space back on itself thus you could effectively travel from one to the other instantly rather than going all the way around. Think of it like folding a piece of paper in half, rather than traveling 11 inches from one end to the other, you just jump from the top to the bottom instantly.

The point here is that ME hasn't really just made up everything. Yes there are suspensions of disbelief with the creation of eezo, but once you can play around with amounts of mass, most everything that happens in ME is plausible.  Hence, the title of the game. Having an "effect" on mass... That's really the biggest leap you have to make. The vast majority of the technology in the game follows directly from that. 

[blothulfur]

Dude you're like thinking too small, yeah you can dual wield pistols but what about you get one like sewn to your skull or something and it's activated by all those negative waves you're emitting man. That would be so righteous.

God i'm hungry.

Triple wield man it's the future and I just blew what's left of my own mind.

Modifié par blothulfur, 01 décembre 2011 - 01:39 .

[Eckswhyzee]

I'm not really fussed either way.

But here's a thought - don't like dual-wielding? Don't use it.

[Abraham_uk]

The topic was about dual wielding. The reason gun mechanics was brought up because we were trying to bring some real life context to the debate about whether or not to include dual wielding. The anwers regarding all the other impossible stuff that happens being brought into question, now suddenly makes dual wielding seem not so silly after all.

Dual wielding was awesome all be it completly daft. It was the most fun aspect of Goldeneye, Perfect Dark and Timesplitters for me personally.

Mass Effect could have dual wielding, though it would ruin the immersion making the game look to goofy. That kind of goofiness belongs in the afomentioned games or in Saint's Row The Third. Whilst we're at it we can have a hypnotising octopus launcher, and a half naked woman running and gunning (Jack anyone?).

Once you make a game too realistic, you get hit by a bullet once, game over for good. No opportunity to start a new game. You're never given a second chance. However this isn't a question of realism, it is a question of is it out of place.

I will gladly welcome dual wielding, but I'll be more than understanding when legions of fans refuse to play another Bioware game ever. (Do fans actually mean it when they say they'll never play another Bioware game?)

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 01 décembre 2011 - 01:41 .