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Does da2 have anything at all to do with the DA world?


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#51
Jaulen

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bluebullets wrote...
*snip*

I think it would've been better if hawke got to kirkwall, and immediately got in the middle of this conflict, and the stoy was much less vague and more involved.

Poor effort on bioware's part.


Hawke was a total NOBODY when (s)he got to Kirkwall....no money, no status, no influence....hth would you have expected Hawke to all of a sudden get into the middle of a conflict that was brewing with a city he's an immigrant to? Hello?!?! That would have been a worse storyline than the currnet build up to influence/status/power/money.

It's like OP lacks reading comprehension as related to the DA game and universe.

'Cause yeah....you know, the next President of the United States is going to be some penniless no account immigrant fresh off the boats without knowing anyone in a position of power amd without making some sort of name for themselves.....


And I just played through the mage tower in DA:O last night.... those mages (if you talk to them before killing them) echo some of the same stuff  J-Anders says in Act 3. And recall....Anders was a member of that Circle. There are TONS of little threads that connect Kirkwall to Ferelden....you just gotta be able to pick the threads.

#52
Jaulen

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kyles3 wrote...
*snip*

Yeah, I get that after DA:O they didn't want to write another "Rowsdower saves us and saves all the world!" type of story, but having the player character spend nine years cleaning up crazy people's messes (except for the biggest mess, which you of course are powerless to stop) was perhaps an overcorrection on BioWare's part.



But...would the conflict have flared up to become the world shattering event if Hawke hadn't started getting their nose into everything?

Varric and Cassandra allude to that at the end of the game (paraphrased):

"So this is all Meredith's doing"

"That or that dammed idol, or Anders, or if Hawke hadn't have been there...."

"I see...It might not have gone this far."

#53
kyles3

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Jaulen wrote...

kyles3 wrote...
*snip*

Yeah, I get that after DA:O they didn't want to write another "Rowsdower saves us and saves all the world!" type of story, but having the player character spend nine years cleaning up crazy people's messes (except for the biggest mess, which you of course are powerless to stop) was perhaps an overcorrection on BioWare's part.



But...would the conflict have flared up to become the world shattering event if Hawke hadn't started getting their nose into everything?

Varric and Cassandra allude to that at the end of the game (paraphrased):

"So this is all Meredith's doing"

"That or that dammed idol, or Anders, or if Hawke hadn't have been there...."

"I see...It might not have gone this far."


I have no problem with Hawke being an important character; my problem is with how Hawke becomes important. I didn't find the journey satisfying. She may rise to power, but it's only because she was in the right place at the right time, not because she had a clear purpose and achieved it. Hawke is the least interesting character in her own story.

#54
1Nosphorus1

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LinksOcarina wrote...

I apologize if this seems like a random thing, but I will bet ten to twenty years down the line, Dragon Age II will be hailed as a classic game that really put forth changes and effort in how games are made, a revolutionary game, as it were.

Not by design though, but by stroy elements and how it was told. 

Because honestly, how many stories have been told like this, and I don't mean good or bad stories, I mean more of the vein of a humane, more grounded narrative, in video games? I can only think of two others really, Heavy Rain and L.A Noire, both of which were moderate successes and lukewarm hits, depending on who you ask. 

Does that make them bad? Different yes, but if you go into it with a different mindset, it becomes an experience that really does push the medium a bit.

The only real failing Dragon Age II had is the fact that the gameplay takes a backseat to the story, believe it or not. Its good gameplay, but the lack of environments, the inventory system, the inbalances and little inconsistancies between classes and such all add up a bit.

I am sorry if im preaching, but Dragon Age II really is among the top 5 releases of the year for me, it had such a good story, atmosphere and level up mechanics that I couldn't help but play it several times. Call me what you like on that one, but let's be honest, if we keep talking about like this 9 months after it's release, it did leave an impact on people, good or ill, which already is a mark of a memorable game.


I tend to come to these forums to check up on other Bioware projects and I was honestly surprised that DA2 was still garnering some attention.
However what you've posted is pure opinion, as is the rest of my post that follows...

Dragon Age 2 for me was a collossal failure, I had actually managed to wipe it from memory until a family member remarked on how god awful the game was, and the fact that it had came out this year (It feels like it's been several years since I've played it).
I think the narrative was poor, you were told that Hawke would be the most important character in the Dragon Age universe as a sort of PR build up, however when the game actually launched it was more of an Option: A or Option: B story, which still left you with feeling no control on the way the story flowed (Orsino's ending).

I've yet to play Heavy Rain (Don't own a PS3) but I thought story wise this year L.A noire or Deus Ex would will easily win hands down, I felt really connected to Cole Phelphs but with the immersion breaking experience that is DA2 I felt completely detatched from Hawke, something that has never happened to me in a Bioware game before.

You can tell how well the game is doing by the support from the developer that it recieves, the whole Skyrim fiasco has the attention from the big media (IGN being a Fox News owned corporation) and their promises to fix the content despite the whole situation being handled horribly.
DA2 hasn't recieved a patch in half a year and is still bug ridden, I've completed it twice and I've yet to have the story pan out the way it was supposed to be played from an Origins import.

All in all I think DA2 was a test by EA to see how fast a "AAA" game can be completed with as little depth as possible, and it failed massively which is why I believe it impacted ME3's development (The bigger genre seller) and we ended up with the delay. If DA2 recieved critical acclaim this month we'd all be playing ME3 and the forums would be full to the brim with people complaining about the same problems and bugs (import) that had plagued DA2's release.

I atleast hope this post which was fuelled by coffee rage recieves some positive attention from a few certain forum members that I've catered it to, I'll keep an eye on the responses and bid you all good day for now.

#55
dragonflight288

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For me, Dragon Age 2 had a failure only on several little things. But all those little things added up. Then there was a rushed ending. Nearly every other game gives us a hint that once we go into the final mission, there's no going back, like Bartrand warning Hawke they would be in the Deep Roads for several weeks. There is no such warning in the third act, so my first playthrough, I kind of stumbled into the end of the game, not expecting it to end quite so soon.

However I think the game did a VERY good job of portraying a realistic hero. A man or woman simply trying to get by in life, has a dysfunctional family, beset upon by outside events that he simply gets caught up in.

Yes, (s)he became a hero simply by being there. But consider where Kirkwall would be if Hawke wasn't. Many times in real life, people rise to prominence based on who they know, some brilliant stroke of luck, or a remarkable coincidence more often than any achievement of their own. Such people exist, but it's harder to find than someone who just happened to know the right person, just happened to be in the right place at the right time, So why can't there be a hero who rises the same way?

I can understand nitpicking all the small flaws. Recycled maps, rushed ending, a boss fight thrown in just because, but DA2 added so much more to the Dragon Age universe. We have an epic war being built up between templars and mages, and we on the forums are STILL debating (nine months later) who is in the right and who is wrong simply because both sides have good points and terrible flaws. We know the Qunari are active, we see a new kind of warrior (Fenris with the lyrium skin-specialization in the future?) with the DLC to get Sebastian we learn about the Resolutionists. We see a non-mage replicate blood magic abilities after making a deal with a powerful demon. (Not saying she is a blood mage despite not being a mage. She could simply be the templar equivalent of a blood mage. Templars have the school of spirit abilities after all.)

We learn about Sleepers through Fenriel, and if we help him, we see how powerful he can be when he saves the girl from being raped by a gang. While he's in Tevinter. That can be a good thing or a bad thing.

Force Magic was added as a specialization, so we can have maybe a good teacher describe things in a Morrigan like fashion about being a force mage in DA3. And we see how Flemeth survives even if the Warden killed her in Origins.

And don't even get me started on the eluvian. That object is STILL being debated because quite frankly, no one knows its true purpose, where it leads when its a portal (Just beyond the Fade) or if the demon was connecting it to somewhere else. But the eluvian is absolutely fascinating. Considering how much focus Bioware put on it with Witch Hunt and Merrill's storyline, chances are we'll be seeing a lot more of it in DA3, like it or not...or we may not-like it or not.

Dragon Age 2 has added a lot to the lore and the view of Thedas. Is it a good thing? Many people feel not. Some people feel it is. Hawke's story isn't an epic hero like Odysseus or Jason seeking the golden fleece. He isn't a man trying to save a nation from the blight. He was running away from the blight like everyone else. But he is a man (or woman) trying to improve his life and his family. Hawke is actually good at minding his/her own business (like most people in the world) and gets called on by the Qunari to settle the dispute. Gets called on by the people because of his actions in Act 2, and is simply (depending on individual gameplay) just trying to live his/her life without everything blowing up...and failing.

Hawke is like Bioware. They try. And do not always succeed.

What will make Bioware either ingenious or incompetent is not how people view Dragon Age 2, but learn what went wrong with DA2 (a game they openly admitted was experimental for the storytelling aspect) and improving where they failed previously.

I personally don't hate DA2. I like Origins better, but I still play DA2 every now and then. (too caught up in Skyrim right now, however) I think it's a game that took a lot of risks, and people didn't know how to react at first because it's different from what they expect out of games with a big hero.

#56
HiroVoid

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1Nosphorus1 wrote...
All in all I think DA2 was a test by EA to see how fast a "AAA" game can be completed with as little depth as possible, and it failed massively which is why I believe it impacted ME3's development (The bigger genre seller) and we ended up with the delay. If DA2 recieved critical acclaim this month we'd all be playing ME3 and the forums would be full to the brim with people complaining about the same problems and bugs (import) that had plagued DA2's release.

Actually, it was delayed because SWTOR is coming out this month.

#57
HiroVoid

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dragonflight288 wrote...
Dragon Age 2 has added a lot to the lore and the view of Thedas. Is it a good thing? Many people feel not. Some people feel it is. Hawke's story isn't an epic hero like Odysseus or Jason seeking the golden fleece. He isn't a man trying to save a nation from the blight. He was running away from the blight like everyone else. But he is a man (or woman) trying to improve his life and his family. Hawke is actually good at minding his/her own business (like most people in the world) and gets called on by the Qunari to settle the dispute. Gets called on by the people because of his actions in Act 2, and is simply (depending on individual gameplay) just trying to live his/her life without everything blowing up...and failing. .

Wasn't Odysseus's whole quest about just trying to get home?

#58
dragonflight288

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Wasn't Odysseus's whole quest about just trying to get home?


Yes. But he also ended up visiting the land of the dead, blinding a cyclops, facing sirens, nearly turned into a pig by Circes, ensnared by Calypso, got all his men killed, enraged Poseidon, and when he did get home, killed over 150 suitors that were trying to court his wife.

#59
HiroVoid

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dragonflight288 wrote...

Wasn't Odysseus's whole quest about just trying to get home?


Yes. But he also ended up visiting the land of the dead, blinding a cyclops, facing sirens, nearly turned into a pig by Circes, ensnared by Calypso, got all his men killed, enraged Poseidon, and when he did get home, killed over 150 suitors that were trying to court his wife.

True, but Hawke's done about similar feats by the end of the game....and killed many more people.  I'm certain there wasn't a population problem by the time Hawke was done with Kirkwall.

#60
1Nosphorus1

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HiroVoid wrote...Actually, it was delayed because SWTOR is coming out this month.


Is that speculation or fact? Most of the articles pertaining to ME3 being delayed is for them to refine and broaden the genre to a more appealing audience.

SWTOR didn't even get a release date until September, compared to the delay of ME3 announced in May, two months after DA2 was released so I find that highly unlikely.

#61
dragonflight288

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True, but Hawke's done about similar feats by the end of the game....and killed many more people. I'm certain there wasn't a population problem by the time Hawke was done with Kirkwall.


My point was one doesn't need an epic motivation or to be a king (Odysseus was the King of Ithaca) in order to be a hero. And oft times a the greatest heroes have to suffer the greatest tragedies...well the classical hero that is. Hawke is just a guy/girl trying to get by, and continually gets pulled into larger events. Hawke tries as hard as (s)he can, and isn't always successful.

#62
LinksOcarina

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dragonflight288 wrote...

True, but Hawke's done about similar feats by the end of the game....and killed many more people. I'm certain there wasn't a population problem by the time Hawke was done with Kirkwall.


My point was one doesn't need an epic motivation or to be a king (Odysseus was the King of Ithaca) in order to be a hero. And oft times a the greatest heroes have to suffer the greatest tragedies...well the classical hero that is. Hawke is just a guy/girl trying to get by, and continually gets pulled into larger events. Hawke tries as hard as (s)he can, and isn't always successful.


What is more human and heroic than that anyway? This is why I thought the game wasn so refreshing, in a way that Origins was refreshing, the heros in both games were thrusted into the position by chance over anything else, which makes sense because of the hero's journey they go on falls in line with what legends become.

This is also why the framed narrative is a good plot point; it shows that Hawke has become a legend already, but legends embellish, they tend to do so to make it fascinating, interesting, or just to hold audiences together. The truth is usually more drab or off-putting, but thats what Cassandra wanted...

#63
Todd23

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But now your Hawke will be all, for lack of a better word, red option. I just want a Hawke that can change his tone during different situations. Instead of this 1 of three options crap. His character is too defined. It's like they're setting it up for Hawke to be a companion in DA3.

#64
TEWR

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Jaulen wrote...


But...would the conflict have flared up to become the world shattering event if Hawke hadn't started getting their nose into everything?


I wouldn't say that Hawke stuck his nose into anything. He was brought into it against his will and just said "Fine. I'll help you out."

More or less anyway.

Besides, he could've stuck his nose into it in much better ways that would've made the conflict much greater.

#65
dragonflight288

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Hawke sits in his mansion and Aveline comes to him for help because she wants a couple of elves back and the Arishok respects Hawke.

Hawke is summoned by the Viscount because the Arishok wants to see him, so the Viscount wants Hawke to act as a diplomat and delegate to try and appease the Qunari.

Hawke wants out of the slums, so works very hard to invest in an expedition to hopefully make a fortune and turn his/her luck around. Meets Petrice, the Arishok, Anders, and potentially makes an enemy out of the mercenaries and smugglers he/she once worked with.

Once Hawke is champion, everyone wants him/her to exert influence in certain areas, and is called upon to moderate a debate with Orsino and Meredith before Elthina steps in.

Hawke isn't deliberately butting his/her nose into everyone's business. Hawke is simply doing favors for people and gets paid for it.

#66
SkittlesKat96

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Nope, DA 2 has nothing to do with DA:O at all. It is an embarrassing failure of a game that completely backfired on EAWare (that is the greedy companies new name now) and they lost massive amounts of money from it but they will stop at nothing to force us to buy their terrible DLC (which I haven't even played by the way, they don't deserve my money, if all of us forumites band together and not buy DA 2 DLC then that will sure show them!)

I mean come on, what kind of Dragon Age game doesn't have blights, epic voiceless protagonists and grey wardens? That is what all Dragon Age games should be about am I right?

Also there should be a gathering of heroes from Morrigan and Flemeth for one great epic battle!!!!!!!

Also we need more Zevran wedding mods and we need the Hero Of Ferelden/Grey Warden in every Dragon Age game ever

HAWKE IS NOT WORTHY OF STANDING NEAR MORRIGAN OR MY WARDEN AND HE MUST BE DISEMBOWLED AND TORTURED BY MY WARDEN LIKE THE WEAK ANT HE IS

also the ENTIRE forum hates DA 2 yet the Bioware developers greedily and smugly deny this, do they not realize that the entire forum hates DA 2 and that the entire DA 2 forum represents the entire Bioware fanbase? I think the only words that can be said for DA 2 are 'disgusting, appalling and sickening'

another thing that burns me up is how we can't dress up our companions anymore, how can Bioware be so lazy? i think all of us forumites can agree that there has never been such a greater disappointment and there has never been such a terrible game (this is not my opinion, this is FACT)

Modifié par SkittlesKat96, 09 décembre 2011 - 11:13 .


#67
dragonflight288

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@SkittlesKat96

I don't know if that's meant to be taken seriously or not.

#68
SkittlesKat96

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dragonflight288 wrote...

@SkittlesKat96

I don't know if that's meant to be taken seriously or not.


Those were my true opinions and nothing less

#69
LinksOcarina

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Troll or not...that was a funny post...

#70
Plaintiff

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LinksOcarina wrote...

Troll or not...that was a funny post...

If he's not a troll, it's a depressingly accurate portrayal.

#71
Darth Death

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DA2 story wasn't my cup of tea. It wasn't epic as I would have liked it to be, despite the decade time frame. There's a lot of "why should I care?" moments & "what was the point of that decision?" I didn't feel immerse in the story or its world at all. After beating the game I felt empty.

#72
Todd23

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Skittles, play the dlcs. They don't suck like the main game. Well, the item packs are pointless.

#73
jbrand2002uk

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This thread seems to highlight that too many gamers are like spoiled children used to being spoonfed on a silver platter the story of playing the hero who saves the world and everyone and never fails and when they arnt given this time and again they moan and complain and stamp their feet like 5 yr olds when told no they cant have desert before tea.

I for one am sick and tired of games giving everyone the perfect faultless all seeing all knowing hero its sooo incredibly boring, It also makes me laugh at how many gamers proclaim themselves experts on what a Dragon Age game should be based on what was in Origins, overall the OP comes across as a needy whiny person who spends far too much time staring at a computer screen instead of interacting with real people.

Does DA2 being different from DAO mean that the universe will implode and that the OP's life is over ? , he clearly thinks so, dude move on and try to remember the whole point of a game:

It is a diversion from life not a substitute for one and if the OP wonders what in his attitude irritates me its this , talk to anybody stranger,friend or family they ask you what do you do in your spare time ? you answer I play video games, they then ask what kind , you say ooooh RPG's and 9 times out of 10 their reaction is OMG dont you have a life or does yours suck so badly you have to play a game pretending to be someone else and its gamers like the OP with their OTT reactions to changes in a franchise that are responsible for the large public perception that RPG gamers are all "billy no mates" which is about as far from the truth as is possible for most RPG players out there

Modifié par jbrand2002uk, 13 décembre 2011 - 01:19 .


#74
TEWR

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jbrand2002uk wrote...

This thread seems to highlight that too many gamers are like spoiled children used to being spoonfed on a silver platter the story of playing the hero who saves the world and everyone and never fails and when they arnt given this time and again they moan and complain and stamp their feet like 5 yr olds when told no they cant have desert before tea.



Yea... continue believing that falsehood and deluding yourself. No one wanted to play the "SUPER AWESOME EPIC HERO THAT SAVES EVERYONE BECAUSE HE ****S BADASSERY".

Most -- if not all -- posters only wanted a Hawke that was proactive and failed for the most part due to a believable way the story unfolded.

However, things like Decimus attacking a group that consists of 3 mages at most is just idiotic beyond belief. He should first find out where Hawke's allegiances lie before he attacks anyone.

#75
jbrand2002uk

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well of course Decimus was and idiot the mages in starkhaven were not as badly treated as those in kirkwall yet he had to burn the place down