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To all people who didn't blow up the Collector base...


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#651
Lotion Soronarr

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AlexXIV wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

This fantasy of the endless power of human will is the territory of shonen anime, not reality.

In that case I prefer shonen anime to reality. Even though I have no clue what that means.


It means human will is not endless and a human mind can be broken. And regardless of your willpower and determination, there are things they are useless against.


Hellbound555 wrote...

You'd think Cerberus would've
learned their lesson by now dealing with Reaper tech but nope. Good ole
TiM, willing to sacrifice humanity to save humanity.


Clarify pls. How is he sacrificing humanity?
Unelss you mean sacrificing some humans...which is a completely different thing.

#652
AlexXIV

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Lotion Soronnar wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

This fantasy of the endless power of human will is the territory of shonen anime, not reality.

In that case I prefer shonen anime to reality. Even though I have no clue what that means.


It means human will is not endless and a human mind can be broken. And regardless of your willpower and determination, there are things they are useless against.

No what I meant is I have no clue what it means that I prefer shonon anime because I don't know any.

Ah nm, Dragonballz, googled it. Well I guess I don't really see much in them. But seemingly endless willpower is not only a topic in anime. Just sayin'. It's probably pure fantasy, but that's ME too for the most part.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 06 décembre 2011 - 12:57 .


#653
SNascimento

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I'll just have to take it back.
.
Or join forces with Cerberus, if it's possible.

#654
Vansen Elamber

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I played through the game a few times so I blew it up, I didn't blow it up, I got it all covered...

#655
111987

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Lotion Soronnar wrote...

the comments about them not sharing are also blatantly false, as are comments about them wanting to harm other races


No, they aren't. They didn't share what they learned about Biotics with Ascension, nor did they share the Derelict Reaper with anyone else, nor Operation TRAPDOOR. Can you give me an example of where they did share technology they developed with anyone else?

#656
Guest_Saphra Deden_*

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111987 wrote...

No, they aren't. They didn't share what they learned about Biotics with Ascension, nor did they share the Derelict Reaper with anyone else, nor Operation TRAPDOOR. Can you give me an example of where they did share technology they developed with anyone else?


Well they shared a lot of things withShepard. They also shared data with Aria, albeit that wasn't completely voluntary.

We don't even know how much new technology Cerberus has actually developed. They made some weapons, like TRAPDOOR, but something like TRAPDOOR you wouldn't necessarily want the Alliance to have because it could implicate them in a bad way.

#657
111987

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Saphra Deden wrote...

111987 wrote...

No, they aren't. They didn't share what they learned about Biotics with Ascension, nor did they share the Derelict Reaper with anyone else, nor Operation TRAPDOOR. Can you give me an example of where they did share technology they developed with anyone else?


Well they shared a lot of things withShepard. They also shared data with Aria, albeit that wasn't completely voluntary.

We don't even know how much new technology Cerberus has actually developed. They made some weapons, like TRAPDOOR, but something like TRAPDOOR you wouldn't necessarily want the Alliance to have because it could implicate them in a bad way.


Shepard is one person though, and was working for them at the time.

Cerberus has at least developed several new armor and weapons systems, such as Kestrel Armor or the Geth Plasma Rifle. Yet as far as we know, they aren't covertly sending these protoypes to the Alliance to benefit humanity; they are keeping them to themselves.

There is no doubt in my mind that Cerberus would not share the data and technology from the Collector Base, and with the risks of indoctrination and they're already questionable methods, it just seems like a really bad idea.

Is it better to let someone have the base rather than no-one? In this case, no. I already posted a full argument on the matter two pages back I believe, so that's all I'm gonna say.

#658
Mr. Gogeta34

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111987 wrote...

Yeah, you're missing the point here. I've bolded the important part (aka the whole thing). Avoid it as much as possible; obviously it will claim some people, but throwing your smartest minds at it doesn't seem like a great idea. That's why I suggested using Rana's data from Virmire.


I didn't miss that... though you seem to have missed the part where I said Indoctrination is "one of the Reaper's primary weapons."  Avoiding it is impossible... they'll use it all day, every day... because it's a tactic that has not been stopped.

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 06 décembre 2011 - 06:39 .


#659
CerberusWarrior

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Hellbound555 wrote...

You'd think Cerberus would've learned their lesson by now dealing with Reaper tech but nope. Good ole TiM, willing to sacrifice humanity to save humanity.

  


the same goes for the alliance in arrival dlc.

#660
Someone With Mass

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CerberusWarrior wrote...
the same goes for the alliance in arrival dlc.


I had no idea that batarians could be classified as humans.

#661
Mr. Gogeta34

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Someone With Mass wrote...

CerberusWarrior wrote...
the same goes for the alliance in arrival dlc.


I had no idea that batarians could be classified as humans.


I think CerberusWarrior is referring to the Indoctrinated human team...

#662
Someone With Mass

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Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

I think CerberusWarrior is referring to the Indoctrinated human team...


In that case: At least they didn't lose a Reaper in a brown dwarf.

And no, I'll never let that go, because that could easily have been the dumbest move in humanity's history.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 06 décembre 2011 - 06:52 .


#663
CerberusWarrior

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Someone With Mass wrote...

CerberusWarrior wrote...
the same goes for the alliance in arrival dlc.


I had no idea that batarians could be classified as humans.

   


Its the alliance team in arrival I am referring to . 

#664
Lotion Soronarr

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111987 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

the comments about them not sharing are also blatantly false, as are comments about them wanting to harm other races


No, they aren't. They didn't share what they learned about Biotics with Ascension, nor did they share the Derelict Reaper with anyone else, nor Operation TRAPDOOR. Can you give me an example of where they did share technology they developed with anyone else?


IIRC, it is stated a few times that some of the human tech advancements are Cerberus tech. A lot of new weapons are Cerberus tech. And unless I'm mistaken, so is medi-gel.

Taht's not to saythey share everything or that tehy share immediately, OR that you would even know about it. We already know Cerberus has ties with the Alliance and was former Black Ops. Any tech it shares would be public knowledge for a long time and would be all hush-hush anyway.

#665
Lotion Soronarr

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Someone With Mass wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

I think CerberusWarrior is referring to the Indoctrinated human team...


In that case: At least they didn't lose a Reaper in a brown dwarf.

And no, I'll never let that go, because that could easily have been the dumbest move in humanity's history.


And it's Sheppards fault....

#666
Eckswhyzee

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Lotion Soronnar wrote...

 A lot of new weapons are Cerberus tech. And unless I'm mistaken, so is medi-gel.


Errr....wasn't medigel developed by the Sirta Foundation?

Anyway, I suppose the reason Cerberus doesn't share personal weapons is because they're prototypes (Arc Projector, Blackstorm, Collector Particle Beam).

#667
Lotion Soronarr

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I feel the need to adress some rather redicolous fears:


1. TIM/Cerberus will use the CB to build a reaper
There are many problems with this assertion:

- What makes you think TIM would do that? What possible gain can be made from this? It's REDICOLOUSLY impractical as means to fight the reapers (or anyone else for that matter). TIM may be many thing, but he isn't THAT stupid.
- It requires many, many humans to make even a small reaper. It simply isn't practical or efficient. And of what use would it be agaisnt an army of a thousand reapers? And to continue this point, why worry about 1 possible extra reaper, when there's thousands coming? It's a drop in the ocean.
- Why make a reaper when you can equip a ship with reaper tech - thus having a ship with just as powerfull shields, engines, weapons, etc.. WITHOUT any problems of control or human abduction?
- What makes you sure the Alliance of Council wouldn't do the same?


2. We don't need the base
There is absolutely ZERO evidence for this. This isnt' a reasonable decuction in any way, shape or form.
What other viable resources to close the gap do we have beside the base?
We do have a few snippets of research, but it's worth is questionable at best  - and at no point has it been ever said, or even implied, that it is substantial, that it is enough, or that it even come close to the CB. But the last one should be pretty obvious. An entire base filled with tech enables a massive technological leap that is measured in CENTURIES. To say "we don't need it to defeat the reapers" is a statement that isn' based on any anything but wishfull thinking.

Especially given indoctrination and the need to formulate a defense agaisnt it.

3. We can't give Cerberus the base, because it will do bad things with it afterwards
Another flawed argument.
It puts the fear and danger of Cerberus ahead of Reapers - which is beyond redicolous
.
The first order of buisness is to ensure the survival of the current life cycle in the galaxy. Sorting out the details is left for later. We only get one shot at survival here - if you mess up, there is no fxing it later. Yet some people glady gamble with the entire galaxy just to satisfy their twisted morals.
Not to mention how hte threat of Cerberus is over-inflated to redicolous proportions.
Assuming the races of the galaxy survive the reaper invasion, Cerberus won't be the only one with reaper tech anymore. The galaxy will be littered with reaper corpses for every faction to pick.

Not to mention the base is only that - only one base. Cerberus isn't a big organization. Even with all the tech from that base, Cerberus cannot really stand against the entire galaxy - that's assuming it would even want to do something like that.

So the whole "cerberus will conquer everyone" is ramping up the fear of an event that is so unlikely, you might as well start living in a bunker out of fear a small meteorite will hit you exactly on the head.

#668
AlexXIV

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Blow it up, blow it up, blow it up, blo ... nevermind.

#669
Dean_the_Young

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Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

In that case: At least they didn't lose a Reaper in a brown dwarf.

And no, I'll never let that go, because that could easily have been the dumbest move in humanity's history.


And it's Sheppards fault....

Ah, but it's Cerberus's, don't you see?

[/silliness]

Frankly, I'm reminded of a story I heard about in Iraq.

A British unit was on crowd control during a mass protest, when a man in the crowd stepped out, pulled a gun, and started shooting at a British soldier. He missed, and the man was subsequently shot by the soldier.

A woman in the crowd pointed at the soldier, cried 'murderer', and the protest descended into a riot.


Someone With Mass, whenever he blames Cerberus for the loss of the Derilict Reaper, will always remind me of that woman.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 07 décembre 2011 - 01:46 .


#670
Medhia Nox

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@Dean_The_Young: Interesting story - but tales like this aren't always true. Folklore isn't relegated to fairies and witches. Though - I do commend it as riveting rhetoric.

@Lotion: Your 1 and 3 never factored into my decision to blow it up - or, if they did, they were at the tail end "bonuses" for having done it.

Concerning 2: There's absolutely no "proof" the base is critical to winning either. Just a hunch and a hope.

Honestly - some of you act like the base is the Deus Ex Machina that you've decided absolutely "must" exist to defeat the unstoppable Reaper force.

If Science Fiction had anything to do with real science - reverse engineering the Collector Base couldn't possibly happen in the time frame (or would be hopelessly impractical to believe - making your "this is obviously the answer" more irrational than believing the CB is a magic bullet) between the end of ME 2 and the beginning of ME 3. Of course - magical sci-fi magic makes time frames less relevant (and the time it takes the Reapers to physically travel from the "edge of the galaxy" to Earth is laughable - but no more so than Mass Effect relays - biotics - etc. etc.)

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 07 décembre 2011 - 03:52 .


#671
Someone With Mass

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Lotion Soronnar wrote...
And it's Sheppards fault....


Shepard wasn't the reason they had to go there in the first place. You know what that was? The science team wasn't responding, so Shepard was forced to go there and pick up the IFF himself.

If they actually had some brains and had thought "Hey, that big Sovereign dude messed with people's heads. What if this thing can do it too?" they could've avoided that whole mess altogether. Unless they got indoctrinated on purpose, which is even more stupid.

Their actions forced Shepard to blow up the Reaper's core.

#672
Medhia Nox

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@SWM - stop picking on Cerberus, they're edgy and controversial and anti-status quo!

You clearly don't understand their deeply hidden wisdom.

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 07 décembre 2011 - 04:17 .


#673
Dean_the_Young

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Medhia Nox wrote...

@Dean_The_Young: Interesting story - but tales like this aren't always true. Folklore isn't relegated to fairies and witches. Though - I do commend it as riveting rhetoric.


While I'll always admit that that particular story is purely third/fourth hand, that sort of thing is all too common in the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. Insurgents trying to solicit retaliations that would produce civilian casualties (inciting a riot to provoke a crackdown) are all too real.

It's a bit part of the trouble of military-media relationships from the military's point of view. Media groups and reporters have their own agendas, and their own stories they want to write, even when they ignore context or causes.

Take a few years ago, when there was a Chinese clampdown on Tibetan dissidents. At the time, a video began circulating on the web, and some news groups, of Chinese soldiers opening fire on crowds. An apparent massacre. Massacre it was, but what the news groups didn't show was the unedited footage that later appeared, that was cut from the initial release: that the Chinese soldiers took fire first, and that even as they were firing there were gunmen near the crowd shooting back at them. 'Unprovoked massacre of weaponless civilians' has a much different context than 'Chinese soldiers return fire at gunmen in a protest.'


It's that sort of manipulation that comes to mind when the 'Cerberus lost the Derilect Reaper' charge is raised. It selectively grips on two truths (that Cerberus did hide the Derilect Reaper for... some amount of time, that the Derilect Reaper was lost), but completely ignores the catalyst that gives context (the the Reaper was lost because Shepard, and Shepard alone, destroyed the core).

And, of course, the deceit is done with a particular bias: to imply that Cerberus is entirely responsible, out of malice and/or incompetence, for the loss of the Reaper beyond recovery.

#674
Guest_Saphra Deden_*

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Someone With Mass wrote...

In that case: At least they didn't lose a Reaper in a brown dwarf.


Think before you post, SMW.

The Alliance team did something a lot worse than losing a dead Reaper in a star.

#675
C9316

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I am rather enjoying this...

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