1667 réponses à ce sujet

[Someone With Mass]

DiebytheSword wrote...

A single product, which I will not name, took a decade and a half for one of our overseas competitors to reverse engineer completely.  They had an imitation out inside of 10 (patents stopped them from selling it earlier), but they took years more to figure out our process.  They would purchase our product, cut it open, analyse it from every angle, and their brush still  performs worse than ours to this day.  Just one example, and nothing so complex as a weapon.

Exactly.

Sure, we can accept that they probably have better scanning equipment in the future, but this isn't something you can start working on while you're 50% done.

Unless you know exactly how the power source works and how the organic components (the Collector weapons have a lot of those) interacts with that power source or how the organic components are made or what they're made out of, the whole thing can might as well explode in your face.

And if you can barely understand the original, how are you going to make a better version of it?

Not to mention that this is alien technology. I refuse to believe that Cerberus can get every single vital piece of information out of that base in less than a year.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 09 décembre 2011 - 11:57 .

[Medhia Nox]

You know - if we ask the Reapers to wait - I bet there's a lot of tech we can discover.

NEW TACTIC!

[Omega4RelayResident]

Saphra Deden wrote...

In the Mass Effect universe within two years we saw reverse engineering of Reaper tech produce EDI and the Thanix. Just two examples of complex devices.

2 years versus 3 months

so within 2 years we have thanix and EDI

within 3 months we would have nothing because from the moment the Omega 4 Relay is successfully navigated it takes 3 months for the Reapers to reach earth.... this was stated in BioWare's press conference

[Someone With Mass]

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

God I think Lotion suffers from a serious case of Illusory Superiority en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusory_superiority. I dont mean it as an insult I mean it as the truth. He thinks hes smarter than the rest of us and yet he doesnt realize he is average just like the rest of us.

Not to mention that all his arguments can be boiled down to saying "this is stupid for reasons I don't want to explain because they're so obvious to me and I'm the only one that matters"

[DiebytheSword]

Saphra Deden wrote...

In the Mass Effect universe within two years we saw reverse engineering of Reaper tech produce EDI and the Thanix. Just two examples of complex devices.

That doesn't mean that things are well thought out in the ME universe.  You yourself are a champion of this idea.

That said, it shows that we are truly closer to the Reaper's level of tech than we should be.

[Someone With Mass]

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

In the Mass Effect universe within two years we saw reverse engineering of Reaper tech produce EDI and the Thanix. Just two examples of complex devices.

2 years versus 3 months

so within 2 years we have thanix and EDI

within 3 months we would have nothing because from the moment the Omega 4 Relay is successfully navigated it takes 3 months for the Reapers to reach earth.... this was stated in BioWare's press conference

The Reaper invasion starts on June 6, 2186 too. So that's one year/six-eight months at best. 

Not even half the time it took for them to come up with small things like EDI and the Thanix.

Yes, small. EDI is nothing compared to say...the geth or the Reapers themselves and the Thanix has more than likely very limited range because of the magnetic fields it's using to keep the projectiles intact and carry them in a straight line.

[Omega4RelayResident]

Saphra Deden wrote...

1.) All research won't stop when the Reapers arrive. On the contrary efforts would be made to accelerate it.

2.) How do you know it is three months? Are you meta-gaming? (what a shock)

Regardless, three months is better than no months. It is a chance to get a started. We already have some basis to start off with since we have two years of research into Sovereign.

Not meta-gaming.... in my version of the game the CB is destroyed and your arguments are that of some whiny scientist dealing in "WHAT IFS" and nothing can be done about it.

Its also not meta-gaming to assume the 3 months have passed (WHICH BIOWARE ANNOUNCED) and you are on trial on Earth when the attack begins. That much we already know and thats where my mindset is at.

[Someone With Mass]

Saphra Deden wrote...
Regardless, three months is better than no months. It is a chance to get a started. We already have some basis to start off with since we have two years of research into Sovereign.

Ah, yes, because Reaper technology is the same thing as Collector technology.

Wait. No, it isn't.

Because then TIM would have been able to tell the connection between them and the Reapers based on their technology alone.

[Omega4RelayResident]

Someone With Mass wrote...

The Reaper invasion starts on June 6, 2186 too. So that's one year/six-eight months at best. 

Not even half the time it took for them to come up with small things like EDI and the Thanix.

Yes, small. EDI is nothing compared to say...the geth or the Reapers themselves and the Thanix has more than likely very limited range because of the magnetic fields it's using to keep the projectiles intact and carry them in a straight line.

How so... BioWare announced that the trial is 3 months after Arrival.... there is no speculation of the time line.... i think you are putting the events of ME2 too far back.

[DiebytheSword]

Saphra Deden wrote...

DiebytheSword wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

In the Mass Effect universe within two years we saw reverse engineering of Reaper tech produce EDI and the Thanix. Just two examples of complex devices.

That doesn't mean that things are well thought out in the ME universe.  You yourself are a champion of this idea.

That said, it shows that we are truly closer to the Reaper's level of tech than we should be.

Right and your point is?

That the base is not truly as critical as one might believe.  If we can reverse engineer it faster, then the technology gap is smaller.

Also, please understand that I am posting from work, if a post seems short it is because I had to close the window before I was finished.

As an addendum, the reason why I had to stop posting from the lab and use my laptop out in the warehouse has to do with the fact that a collegue was attempting (and failing badly) to reverse engineer our own part with the equipment in my lab.  And we have the blueprints for said item 

Modifié par DiebytheSword, 10 décembre 2011 - 12:14 .

[Kaiser Shepard]

AlexXIV wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Well it is not about what they do, it is more about what they can do. To let people choose to play with Cerberus or the Alliance almost requires 2 games. Because you'd have different missions, different people to work with, and probably different places to fight for each side.

It's not that difficult: The levels themselves can be the exact same, the missions don't have to differ that much... the only real difference would have to be your 'handler'.

It doesn't have to be The Witcher 2 in space, but some around Alpha Protocol's level would've been nice.

Alpha control is one of the few RPGs I never played. But wouldn't people complain about 'reused areas' and fake options if you get almost the same for both sides?

Of course not, as those areas wouldn't be "reused" in the same sense as with DA2, they would simply be used for two different missions, of which you'll only go through one on any given playthrough: instead of going to Sur'kesh to rescue the female krogan, you could go there to kill and/or capture them. Exact same level/map, but with different enemies. No Cerberus Troopers to get rid of, but an entire STG cell. No Atlas as the mission's boss, but the escaped yagh... or maybe Eve herself.

Or Cerberus could, through Shepard if Mordin and/or Kirrahe are alive, extend an olive branch to the salarians/STG, resulting in a fairly peaceful mission.

And you really should try to get Alpha Protocol, as it's quite the enternaining game. Good use of choice/consequence, factions and reputation as well.

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 10 décembre 2011 - 12:14 .

[Someone With Mass]

Saphra Deden wrote...

You are seriously underestimating EDI. She was able to override Reaper cyber attacks and she basically allows the Normandy to win any engagement by default.

And you're seriously overestimating her. She just purged a virus from an IFF.

That's not the same thing as going up against a whole Reaper. That doesn't say that the Normandy will win by default. It says that they can handle the dinky little viruses the Reapers might throw at it.

Not to mention that she herself doesn't know what all those Reaper parts are doing either.

[AlexXIV]

DiebytheSword wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

DiebytheSword wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

In the Mass Effect universe within two years we saw reverse engineering of Reaper tech produce EDI and the Thanix. Just two examples of complex devices.

That doesn't mean that things are well thought out in the ME universe.  You yourself are a champion of this idea.

That said, it shows that we are truly closer to the Reaper's level of tech than we should be.

Right and your point is?

That the base is not truly as critical as one might believe.  If we can reverse engineer it faster, then the technology gap is smaller.

No you got it all wrong. Right now we have no chance to beat the Reapers. They are on level one million, we are on level zero. But if we get the base we get a research boost without any bad things happening and we are on par with the Reapers, hence we beat them. And all of this is a matter of fact. And Cerberus will be critical to our victory. Also we can neglect ME3 because nothing that can happen there could possibly change our opinion of things that happenend in ME1/2. Just like ME2 didn't change anything about what we learned in ME1.

Oh and before I forget ... /sarcasm

[Someone With Mass]

Saphra Deden wrote...
The base manufactures Reapers, therefore it contains Reaper technology in addition to "Collector" technology (assuming there is any such distinction).

That must be the dumbest thing I've read all week.

That's like saying this machine and this machine are the same just because they happen to make the same product.

Protip: They're not.

[DiebytheSword]

Saphra Deden wrote...

DiebytheSword wrote...

That the base is not truly as critical as one might believe.  If we can reverse engineer it faster, then the technology gap is smaller.

Smaller? What does that mean? A 1000 foot giant who suddenly shrinks to only 900 feet is still a giant. 

You can't have it both ways, kid.

Even if the tech gap is small enough for us to reverse engineer technologies in a short time that just makes the base even more important since it will allow us to quickly eliminate the tech gap entirely.

Even if this wasn't the case and the tech gap was huge we'd still want to keep it since we have nothing to lose by trying.

I have refrained, for some days now, from using a confrontational tone with any of your group.  I am not a kid, not even close.  You haven't earned the right to call me that, kindly refrain, I don't believe I have made guesses as to your age.

How am I having it both ways?  By arguing against you from two different approaches?  Either the technology is far beyond our reach (in the estimation of Lotion Sorronar for example) or it is a much smaller gap (as I have been arguing).  Either way, I must provide arguments for both view points.  That is not having it both ways, that is arguing against keeping the base for both technology gaps.  Does that clarify what I am doing?

We don't have anything to lose by trying or there would be no point to fighting the reapers at all, no one here is arguing that.  We have things to lose by trusting someone we don't trust, that has been the crux of many of our arguments.

[AlexXIV]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...
The base manufactures Reapers, therefore it contains Reaper technology in addition to "Collector" technology (assuming there is any such distinction).

That must be the dumbest thing I've read all week.

That's like saying this machine and this machine are the same just because they happen to make the same product.

Protip: They're not.

I have to say your santa hat really adds to your authority.