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[AlexXIV]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

And I am talking through optical cables via a lifeless machine.... does that mean you will burn me at a stake for being a witch?

I don't believe you either. And since we know witches don't exist, that just plays more into my judgement of not trusting your word through the optical cables via lifeless machines.

 Oh no you figured out my secret.... Time to plug you back into the Matrix you wonderfull battery you....

And this is why you can't believe people just on what they say.

Unless they have names like 'the illusive man' and work for illegal black ops called 'Cerberus'.

[Omega4RelayResident]

Ryzaki wrote...

@Omega4RelayResident: You really don't know if she's telling the truth or not about being peaceful. It's just a risk that Shep takes.

If she's lying you have a powerful new enemy.

If she's telling the truth you have a powerful ally.

It's either a high loss or a high gain.

I agree that this is the case.... I also agree that the CB is also an unknown.... all I know is that when I go with a gut instinct when it comes to Sci Fi and Fantasy stories I tend to make the right call / prediction most of the time. I am rarely wrong.

However you dont know me... my track record or being right.... so I cant come in here and say you are wrong because my tummy says so.... I have to argue with facts, itelligent deduction, and base my arguments by looking at all possibilities and choosing the opposite of the worst case scenario.

[mango smoothie]

Ok I didn't realize I would totally derail this thread from one observation we should probably get back on topic.

Modifié par mango smoothie, 10 décembre 2011 - 04:12 .

[Xilizhra]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I don't really see what taking a sentence out of context and claiming I meant the exact opposite of what I actually said gains you. Regardless, I believe the rachni were intended to be Reaper tools, yes, but not in an all-out war, given how...

Well have fun with your theory.

I will. I'll also have fun being right. Again.

You have no evidence that she wouldn't be hostile either. In fact, all you have is her word and what you have seen of the rachni up to that point. The best choice would be to leave her in the tank for the council to decide what to do. However, since that's not a choice, it's better to be safe than sorry.

What I've seen of the rachni is that they go nuts when separated from their mother (and I have that Yaroslav guy to confirm the queen's statement on the matter). The only sane rachni I've ever seen is the queen, and she's without precedent. I believe killing her then carries too high a cost.

[Omega4RelayResident]

AlexXIV wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

And I am talking through optical cables via a lifeless machine.... does that mean you will burn me at a stake for being a witch?

I don't believe you either. And since we know witches don't exist, that just plays more into my judgement of not trusting your word through the optical cables via lifeless machines.

 Oh no you figured out my secret.... Time to plug you back into the Matrix you wonderfull battery you....

And this is why you can't believe people just on what they say.

Unless they have names like 'the illusive man' and work for illegal black ops called 'Cerberus'.

There we go.... hit him with his own argument.

[AlexXIV]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

You're misusing the term prejudice, Alex.

Why, don't we have prejudice towards Rachni? Mind you my first language is not english. So what is the proper word?

[Dean_the_Young]

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

And I am talking through optical cables via a lifeless machine.... does that mean you will burn me at a stake for being a witch?

I don't believe you either. And since we know witches don't exist, that just plays more into my judgement of not trusting your word through the optical cables via lifeless machines.

 Oh no you figured out my secret.... Time to plug you back into the Matrix you wonderfull battery you....

And this is why you can't believe people just on what they say.

Unless they have names like 'the illusive man' and work for illegal black ops called 'Cerberus'.

There we go.... hit him with his own argument.

Since I've never made that argument...

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 10 décembre 2011 - 04:04 .

[Ryzaki]

Dean_the_Young wrote...
I wouldn't even put it like that.

If she's lying, I can believe a powerful new enemy.

But if she's telling the truth, I wouldn't expect a powerful ally. Not only would a good!Rachni be less, well, expansive (and thus dangerous) than an evil!Rachni, but the friction with other allies (Krogan, Council) who don't share my views would also detract from the raw abilities.
So powerful new enemy, or modest ally.

Don't agree. I see them as being equally able to wage war (seeing as evil!Rachni wasn't getting any backup from the Reapers). And the other allies could be convinced to work together (even if it's only for the Reaper war).

Especially since that savageness might be the only thing that stands between them and extinction.

Only difference is how relentless they were and their targets. (But even then with their queen at stake I can see them being plenty relentless).

Modifié par Ryzaki, 10 décembre 2011 - 04:03 .

[Omega4RelayResident]

Saphra Deden wrote...

I swear to god you people reason like two-year olds.

I remember when my sister was that age if you ever told her something and it wound up being true she'd accuse of being a liar. It took her months to learn the difference between telling a lie and telling someone something you thought was true but turned out to be wrong.

So the moral of this is that a two year old makes better judgement calls than you? I dont get what you are getting at here other than the fact that you got pwnd by your sister.

[Omega4RelayResident]

AlexXIV wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

You're misusing the term prejudice, Alex.

Why, don't we have prejudice towards Rachni? Mind you my first language is not english. So what is the proper word?

Distrust if anything.

Modifié par Omega4RelayResident, 10 décembre 2011 - 04:03 .

[AlexXIV]

Saphra Deden wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Tbh just because she had all reasons to lie doesn't mean that she must lie.

Nobody said she must be lying, only that she could be. We don't know either way so it is a gamble to let her out.

I swear to god you people reason like two-year olds.

I remember when my sister was that age if you ever told her something and it wound up being true she'd accuse of being a liar. It took her months to learn the difference between telling a lie and telling someone something you thought was true but turned out to be wrong.

You really shouldn't do that. Because it is obvious that we argue at least like 4 years olds and god doesn't like if you abuse his name.
I never said that she is not lying. I said I released her because she is possibly the last. It was an act of mercy, nothing else. No logic, no tactics. Why do you always just quote a small part of my posts? Do you do that on purpose or ... do you not even read all if it?

[Dean_the_Young]

AlexXIV wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

You're misusing the term prejudice, Alex.

Why, don't we have prejudice towards Rachni? Mind you my first language is not english. So what is the proper word?

Dominant strategy.


Prejudice is the principal of believing someone will do something simply because of some nature of identity. It's a type of logical fallacy, because it attributes something (Rachni will lie) to something that has no intrensic role (because Rachni is Rachni).



A dominant strategy, however, is something anyone will do simply because it's their best strategy no matter what, and no other strategy makes any other sense. Whether the Rachni Queen is dangerous or not, there is no real context in which claiming to be, well, evil, would help her out. Whether she's indoctrinated, violent, or truly innocent, the only course of action that makes sense for her to do is to claim to be innocent.

And because she would best be served by claiming to be innocent regardless of all else, her claiming to be innocent doesn't really prove anything about her. That's not a fallacy, that's just a contextual fact.

[Omega4RelayResident]

AlexXIV wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Tbh just because she had all reasons to lie doesn't mean that she must lie.

Nobody said she must be lying, only that she could be. We don't know either way so it is a gamble to let her out.

I swear to god you people reason like two-year olds.

I remember when my sister was that age if you ever told her something and it wound up being true she'd accuse of being a liar. It took her months to learn the difference between telling a lie and telling someone something you thought was true but turned out to be wrong.

You really shouldn't do that. Because it is obvious that we argue at least like 4 years olds and god doesn't like if you abuse his name.
I never said that she is not lying. I said I released her because she is possibly the last. It was an act of mercy, nothing else. No logic, no tactics. Why do you always just quote a small part of my posts? Do you do that on purpose or ... do you not even read all if it?

The media does the same thing to twist facts and win arguments. Its called - Taking things out of context - and its a nasty thing to do.

[Omega4RelayResident]

Saphra Deden wrote...
Wow. Way to prove my point for me. You are a life saver.

Hey now if I cant talk sense into you and keep your game from exploding I might as well lovingly annoy you for a bit.

[Dean_the_Young]

Ryzaki wrote...

Don't agree. I see them as being equally able to wage war (seeing as evil!Rachni wasn't getting any backup from the Reapers). And the other allies could be convinced to work together (even if it's only for the Reaper war).

It's the cooperation effectiveness modifier. If she's evil, she doesn't have to worry about the compromises to play nice with the good guys. If she's good, however, you have to overcome the frictions, distrusts, and other problems required to make an agreement work.

Raw potential in output isn't the same as effectiveness, and alliances require compromises and come with more burdens. These burdens are outweighed by the gains of teamwork... but that's over the collective, not individual.



Pretty standard stuff, actually. It's why teams that work together well can beat groups of all-stars. Or why really talented people who don't get along with others work better on their own.

[AlexXIV]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

You're misusing the term prejudice, Alex.

Why, don't we have prejudice towards Rachni? Mind you my first language is not english. So what is the proper word?

Dominant strategy.


Prejudice is the principal of believing someone will do something simply because of some nature of identity. It's a type of logical fallacy, because it attributes something (Rachni will lie) to something that has no intrensic role (because Rachni is Rachni).



A dominant strategy, however, is something anyone will do simply because it's their best strategy no matter what, and no other strategy makes any other sense. Whether the Rachni Queen is dangerous or not, there is no real context in which claiming to be, well, evil, would help her out. Whether she's indoctrinated, violent, or truly innocent, the only course of action that makes sense for her to do is to claim to be innocent.

And because she would best be served by claiming to be innocent regardless of all else, her claiming to be innocent doesn't really prove anything about her. That's not a fallacy, that's just a contextual fact.

Ok by using prejudice I mean that people generally assume that the Rachni War happened because it was the Rachni's decission/nature. Though the queen hints that it may have been indoctrination. So at this point you can believe her or not. But not believing her would be resorting to that common picture people have about rachni. Following that if you let her go, there will be another Rachni War. So I give her benefit of doubt.

[Ryzaki]

Dean_the_Young wrote...It's the cooperation effectiveness modifier. If she's evil, she doesn't have to worry about the compromises to play nice with the good guys. If she's good, however, you have to overcome the frictions, distrusts, and other problems required to make an agreement work.

Raw potential in output isn't the same as effectiveness, and alliances require compromises and come with more burdens. These burdens are outweighed by the gains of teamwork... but that's over the collective, not individual.

Pretty standard stuff, actually. It's why teams that work together well can beat groups of all-stars. Or why really talented people who don't get along with others work better on their own.

I'd still go with powerful though. (even if it's not as powerful as she was originally). What compromises would she have to make that would make her go from a powerful ally to a moderate one? 

True and true. I'm just not seeing what would make her go from powerful to moderate though.

[Ryzaki]

The queen doesn't suggest indoctrination in ME1 I think. She simply says it wasn't her (which it wasn't) and she doesn't know why it happened.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 10 décembre 2011 - 04:13 .

[Dean_the_Young]

AlexXIV wrote...
But not believing her would be resorting to that common picture people have about rachni.

SInce you're just rephrasing the word prejudice:

You're using it wrong.

[AlexXIV]

Saphra Deden wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

You really shouldn't do that. Because it is obvious that we argue at least like 4 years olds and god doesn't like if you abuse his name.

No, two year-olds and I'm not worried about god.

AlexXIV wrote...

I never said that she is not lying. I said I released her because she is possibly the last. It was an act of mercy, nothing else. No logic, no tactics. Why do you always just quote a small part of my posts? Do you do that on purpose or ... do you not even read all if it?

1.) I wanted to attack a specific statement you made which falsely characterized my argument

2.) No, I didn't read the rest of your post because I wasn't interested in it, just that one statement.

Yeah not everything I write is an attack, even if I quote you. I was just refering to that Sgt. guy who said she has all reason to lie. Which is true. But doesn't predict that she is indeed lying.

[Dean_the_Young]

Ryzaki wrote...

I'd still go with powerful though. (even if it's not as powerful as she was originally). What compromises would she have to make that would make her go from a powerful ally to a moderate one?

Depends the nature of the evil. Evil Rachni could kill ships that come too close, to cover up their growth: Good Rachni relocate and flee when discovered. Evil Rachni don't need not stinking growth limits: Good Rachni realize they can't grow at the expense of the established galaxy. Evil Rachni don't mind building illegal weapons: Good Rachni try to play by the rules to have a place in the galaxy. Evil Rachni don't share their world locations with anyone, and so are hard to root out: Good Rachni are forced to share their location with the Council, and so Reaper spies know exactly where they are.

True and true. I'm just not seeing what would make her go from powerful to moderate though.

Context of an awkward ally versus a dedicated foe, really.

[xxSgt_Reed_24xx]

AlexXIV wrote...

Yeah not everything I write is an attack, even if I quote you. I was just refering to that Sgt. guy who said she has all reason to lie. Which is true. But doesn't predict that she is indeed lying.

I never said she was lying b/c she's a Rachni. I said she has every REASON to lie. Not that she actually was. But like I said in my other post, we don't know... all we have to go on is what we've seen of the Rachni and her word... that may or may not be influenced by being in a cage that's rigged to kill her.