1667 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

Dean_the_Young wrote...
Depends the nature of the evil. Evil Rachni could kill ships that come too close, to cover up their growth: Good Rachni relocate and flee when discovered. Evil Rachni don't need not stinking growth limits: Good Rachni realize they can't grow at the expense of the established galaxy. Evil Rachni don't mind building illegal weapons: Good Rachni try to play by the rules to have a place in the galaxy. Evil Rachni don't share their world locations with anyone, and so are hard to root out: Good Rachni are forced to share their location with the Council, and so Reaper spies know exactly where they are.

I highly highly doubt anyone in their right minds is gonna have banned weapons fighting the Reapers (if said weapons are effective on either Reaper or Reaper slaves). (as in the council will either turn a blind eye or momentarily lift all bans on weapon production so long as said weapons are being used against the Reapers). Otherwise they really are too dumb to live.

As for the first part that really only applies as long as the Rachni aren't blatant allies does it not? The second bit I can see being a problem but with the vast amounts of organics being slaughtered daily  and need for constant soldiers to protect several homeworlds (especially those willing to go on the front lines and die in vast amounts) again I'm not seeing a population boom being much of an issue during the Reaper war when they can be used as cannon fodder (later on sure that's gonna come to a head but I'm focusing mostly on fighting the reapers). Though the last bit true. I'm not sure that's a heavy enough push from powerful to moderate though.

Context of an awkward ally versus a dedicated foe, really.

I can kind of see it. But I'm not really getting all these constraints with the Reaper threat. Maybe if it was something significantly less genocidal sure.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 10 décembre 2011 - 04:25 .

[AlexXIV]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...
But not believing her would be resorting to that common picture people have about rachni.

SInce you're just rephrasing the word prejudice:

You're using it wrong.

1. an unfavorable opinion or feeling formed beforehand or without knowledge, thought, or reason.
2. any preconceived opinion or feeling, either favorable or unfavorable.
3. unreasonable feelings, opinions, or attitudes, especially of a hostile nature, regarding a racial, religious, or national group.
4. such attitudes considered collectively: The war against prejudice is never-ending.
5. damage or injury; detriment: a law that operated to the prejudice of the majority.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 10 décembre 2011 - 04:22 .

[AlexXIV]

xxSgt_Reed_24xx wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Yeah not everything I write is an attack, even if I quote you. I was just refering to that Sgt. guy who said she has all reason to lie. Which is true. But doesn't predict that she is indeed lying.

I never said she was lying b/c she's a Rachni. I said she has every REASON to lie. Not that she actually was. But like I said in my other post, we don't know... all we have to go on is what we've seen of the Rachni and her word... that may or may not be influenced by being in a cage that's rigged to kill her. 

Well it doesn't help me to know she has every reason to lie if I want to find out if she is lying or not. Of course I can say 'better save than sorry' but in this situation I didn't think that was necessary.

[Seboist]

If it was up to me I would done three choices involving the Rachni Queen that would be centered on who Shepard wanted to align herself with.

Pro-Rachni -> Let the Queen go

Pro-Council-> Keep the Queen locked up and ship her to them.

Pro-Krogan-> Kill the Queen

[AlexXIV]

Saphra Deden wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Well it doesn't help me to know she has every reason to lie if I want to find out if she is lying or not. Of course I can say 'better save than sorry' but in this situation I didn't think that was necessary.

Remember to tell all the grieving widows and parents that when billions die in a second rachni war!

I'll remember it when it happens. I own my mistakes.

[AlexXIV]

Saphra Deden wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

I'll remember it when it happens. I own my mistakes.

I'm sure they'll find that very comforting.

This is the problem with Paragon: it's all about the Paragon and not about anyone else.

No it is about paragons thinking that the rachni as a race deserve the same chance as the humans as a race. I don't really expect you to understand this.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

This thread has been immensely amusing.

Please continue I wish to relish the pointless bickering.

[AlexXIV]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

This thread has been immensely amusing.

Please continue I wish to relish the pointless bickering.

Well if you like you can try to end the pointless bickering.

You know, by pointing out the one thing nobody has realized yet. And then we can have a good laugh and have a beer or two.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 10 décembre 2011 - 04:45 .

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

AlexXIV wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

This thread has been immensely amusing.

Please continue I wish to relish the pointless bickering.

Well if you like you can try to end the pointless bickering.

You know, by pointing out the one thing nobody has realized yet. And then we can have a good laugh and have a beer or two.

I was thinking of derailing this thread with a silly charcter battle, but this chaos is honestly more enjoyable.

[AlexXIV]

I think it is dying down anyway and I should do something more imporant, like ... um ... I'll find something.

[Heimdall]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

Youre judgment of their sucess rate is alos flawed.

It is not.  Every project Shepard has encountered aside from Lazarus and the Normandy SR-2, which is all Shepard has to go by, have consisted of inhumane experiments that tend to get all the researchers killed in the process (Actually, the Lazarus project falls into that catagory too) and could be considered partial success' at best.  The subjects of said experiments also tend to end up insane or highly unstable.

Nope. I say again - you judgment is flawed.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.  I don't consider a project that kills almost everyone involved and manages only a few half salvagable results to be a success.

And you'll be faced with indoctrination either way. There's no avoiding it. You want to try and find a coutner to it now, or try it in the middel of a galactic war, when half of your populace is indoactrinated and your citites are burning?

  Oh sure, let's let the Cerberus researchers become indoctrinated and turn the Collectoer's technology against us while we already have to deal with the Reapers.  Do you honestly not see how this could be a problem?  I'm not saying there couldn't be an advantage, but it's a gamble either way.

And you'll be faced wiht indoctrinatio EITHER WAY.
You will have to deal with the reapers. That is unavoidable. You can try to do something about it NOW, or later, when the reapers are already attacking and reaping - and indoctrination will be a FAR bigger problem then.

It's a gamble one has to be a moron to NOT take.

Your missing the point entirely.  It is a gamble either way.  Your gambling that it won't blow up in your face and make things worse.  I'm gambling that it won't provide results that would meaningfully shift the balance and that if there were Cerberus would not distribute them to the wider galaxy, making their impact negligable.  On the subject of indoctrination, having indoctrinated agents firing their guns at you sooner rather than later does not solve the problem.  You're assuming there is a solution besides a bullet to the head to begin with.

I'm not saying saving the base is the wrong decision, I'm only pointing out that destroying it is quite valid.  I'm not sure why you find that unacceptable.

Then why didn't they do it before?
Aslo, how would that help them exactly? The base has no weapons (that we seen). It cannot move.
How exactly can it aid hte reaper war effort (all that's assumign the reaper war effort needs any aid)

I'm only mentioning the possibility.  For starters they could open the base to vacuum and kill all the researchers.  Shepard doesn't know the full capabilities of the base, why take that chance?  At the very least, the Reapers would have their Reaper factory back.

Can they open it to vacuum completley? Don't people have sealed suits and armors?
Also, of what use  would a repaer factory be to them once they arrive?

First of all, it would take quite some time to build a new reaper - all credible resistance could very well be dcrushed long before it's complete - and secondly, the'll have millions of indoctrinated slaves. They don't neeed the base.

I have yet to see a Cerberus scientist in a vaccuum sealable suit.  According to Vigil, the Reaper conquest lasted centuries and outright resistance was only crushed so quickly because of the Citadel Relay.  The Human Reaper seemed fairly far along after two years, and I'm guessing the Reapers themselves would be able to manage much larger shipments to speed the process.

I think you're letting this distract you from my point.

Modifié par Lord Aesir, 10 décembre 2011 - 11:38 .

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Lotion tends to do that Aesir, I believe it's a tactic he learned from one of his decidedly pro-Cerberus...cohorts.

[Heimdall]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Lotion tends to do that Aesir, I believe it's a tactic he learned from one of his decidedly pro-Cerberus...cohorts.

Duly noted

[Ravensword]

I like Internet arguments.

[Dave of Canada]

I didn't see Rachni as a potential ally for anything, we didn't know what we were dealing with at the time except that Saren was leading the Geth. Any use for the Rachni as an ally would have to be either against a drawn out war against the Geth / Saren or some other unknown threat at the time.

In addition to this, her excuse for the actions of her ancestors was essentially the "oily shadows" which implies indoctrination. The problem with accepting this answer is that you've most likely just heard about it from Benezia, who died within sitting distance of the Rachni Queen.

She's at your mercy, why wouldn't she lie about all the dark history her species has done? The galaxy certainly hasn't forgotten about it, most people who've lived during the Rachni Wars wouldn't think twice about pushing that button.

Why should Shepard who wasn't even involved with the Rachni Wars trust this one queen on her word?

Also I agree we should've had an option to bowtie her and ship her off to the Council.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 10 décembre 2011 - 08:31 .

[Ryzaki]

Uh...Shep did know about the Reapers at that moment. Shep's vision was made apparent to him (or at least the part where the Reapers slaughtered the protheans before vanishing and Saren was trying to bring them back) before he even left the Citadel the first time. He figures it out when Tali plays the recording. He didn't know Sovereign was a Reaper until Virmire though. But he was always aware that the Reapers were coming. (Thus his speech at the end of ME1)

Modifié par Ryzaki, 10 décembre 2011 - 08:56 .

[Dave of Canada]

Touche.

[111987]

Dave of Canada wrote...

I didn't see Rachni as a potential ally for anything, we didn't know what we were dealing with at the time except that Saren was leading the Geth. Any use for the Rachni as an ally would have to be either against a drawn out war against the Geth / Saren or some other unknown threat at the time.

In addition to this, her excuse for the actions of her ancestors was essentially the "oily shadows" which implies indoctrination. The problem with accepting this answer is that you've most likely just heard about it from Benezia, who died within sitting distance of the Rachni Queen.

She's at your mercy, why wouldn't she lie about all the dark history her species has done? The galaxy certainly hasn't forgotten about it, most people who've lived during the Rachni Wars wouldn't think twice about pushing that button.

Why should Shepard who wasn't even involved with the Rachni Wars trust this one queen on her word?

Also I agree we should've had an option to bowtie her and ship her off to the Council.

In addition to Ryzaki's point, you can technically do Noveria last if you do Therum, Feros, and then Virmire. In which case you know all about indoctrination from Feros and Virmire, and that Sovereign is a Reaper.

[Dean_the_Young]

AlexXIV wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...
But not believing her would be resorting to that common picture people have about rachni.

SInce you're just rephrasing the word prejudice:

You're using it wrong.

1. an unfavorable opinion or feeling formed beforehand or without knowledge, thought, or reason.
2. any preconceived opinion or feeling, either favorable or unfavorable.
3. unreasonable feelings, opinions, or attitudes, especially of a hostile nature, regarding a racial, religious, or national group.
4. such attitudes considered collectively: The war against prejudice is never-ending.
5. damage or injury; detriment: a law that operated to the prejudice of the majority.

None of which apply here. Which is why you are using it wrong.

Beleiving she is lying might be an example of prejudice (or not), but not believing her is not an example of prejudice.

[Dean_the_Young]

Saphra Deden wrote...

You know Dean, I think you are being less than honest. The queen being released presents an opportunity for the powers in the area to militarize.

If the queen is a powerful enemy she is also potentially a powerful ally.

Given the anti-organic Geth, even if you do ignore the Reapers,
the galactic powers already have basis to militarize. The Queen doesn't
offer more.

If the other races can be expected to be civil with Cerberus in the midst of a fight for survival then they can be expected to be civil with rachni.

Certainly. But being civil means restraint.

You'd be an excellent example of that.

[Medhia Nox]

@Alex XIV: Do you really think the egos on the BSN can ever find an accord? They are 100% sure they are correct... especially the "logic" crowd - I'm still awaiting some proof of their education in anything resembling logic - ****** jack prizes not withstanding.

The Grand Admiral is just pointing out the obvious.