1667 réponses à ce sujet

[AlexXIV]

Saphra Deden wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

"Napoleon is too strong, we have to pull back!"

Looks we found new historic evidence. Napoleon didn't need his armies at all. I mean this is amusing at all, but didn't you want to make a point?

Did you not watch the cutscene? Did you not see Sovereign annihilating ships left and right, while surrounded, causing the survivors to want to disengage before Hackett ordered them to hold position?

Did you miss the part later where Shepard reminded the Council that Sovereign alone nearly destroyed them? I didn't say the geth didn't wreck a lot of havoc too. However Sovereign, by itself, did nearly as much if not more damage than the geth did. That is how strong it was.

In the Reaper War you may need to fight dozens, perhaps hundreds or even thousands of Sovereigns.

Oh, let me guess, your fine ship and great crew is all you need.

****ing idiot.

See I knew you could do it. Why not the first time?

As I said before we need to find the weakness. Like we captured the base, like we killed Sovereign. We didn't copy their tech and face them in open battle. We snook in to the back door, found the weakness, exploited it. That's how you kill Reapers. You can build your armies with tech you know next to nothing about while I am looking for the backdoor and we meet half-way, what about that?

[Lotion Soronarr]

AlexXIV wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Considering how far we got with 'nothing' I think we may just be able to beat the Reapers with 'nothing'.

You are either meta-gaming or you are superstituous.

So far you have not beaten the Reapers. You killed one Reaper and killed a few minions. Neither of those compares to the full might of the Reaper armada.

Remember, that one Reaper ripped an entire fleet to shreds and the minions were a match for the entire Systems Alliance.

With the help of the Geth. And whether they were a match back then isn't as imporant as if they are now. I don't say there wouldn't be a point in keeping the base. What I find funny is how you people sometimes undermine your own valid points by exaggerating so much. I mean I am sorry, we have nothing? Maybe you have nothing, but I have Shepard, I have the Normandy and I have the best crew the galaxy has to offer. Maybe it's not enough. But to beat the Reapers just to turn into Reapers does sound contra-productive to me.

Who said anything about beating the repaers by turning into reapers?

Also, devs confirmed Sovereign would have pulverized a lot more ship ALONE if it wasn't for the whole avatar/Shepard/Citadel thing. The Fifth fleet had dreadnoughts.

The superiority of Reapers is self-evident. Not only on a purely technical side. But both from a tactical AND stragetic side. With so many advantages they can run circles around the races of the galaxy evne with a barely competent general.

You see using tech I know next to nothing about against those who created it and know everything about never sounded much like a plan for me. Maybe our own tech is rather 'primitive' compared to the Reaper's but at least we know what we have and know what we can do with it. And we have proven we can do 'something', which is more than 'nothing' in my book. I don't believe in this 'bigger is better' ideology. If we ever want to have a chance against the Reapers we need to find their weak spot. We need to go a way they don't suspect us to go. A surprise. Just doing what they would also have done, as in trying to use their own tech against them, makes us predictable.

What a silly argument. It doesn't matter who's tech it is.
Just because I got nuke tech from the US doesn't mean they can defend against it.

You say we need to find their weakneses. How do you suggest we go doing that? If only we had a base used to construct one of them....

I'm sure the indians faredwell against the western settlers because they didn't use their tech.

[AlexXIV]

wiggles89 wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

wiggles89 wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

And you are not going to give me examples, right?

The character development was manifest. If you didn't notice it while playing the game I hardly see how my citing examples would convince you otherwise.

And I say you don't recite them because you can't, because it didn't happen.

Whatever you say, buddy. Now go back to debating Saphra about how you'll defeat the reapers with good intentions.

At least I can debate Saphra because he is making points, every now and then. You just say that something is there and never even bother to give an example.

[AlexXIV]

Lotion I think it's foolish to use someone's tech against him. You can't compare real life because it is a different tech level. Who is to say that the Reapers don't have a tool to 'assimilate' or 'assume control' of all of their tech? You wouldn't know and if you find out because they actually do it, it would be too late. Yes, that's just a theory but just as valid as any other. We are talking about things nobody of us knows. You are willing to take the risk, ok, got it. I am not. What bothers me is that you people keep telling others that they are stupid because they disagree. And all about a science fiction game.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 11 décembre 2011 - 02:55 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...


I'm not here to entertain you Failcake.

Lotion dear please use better insults.

It demeans us both when you can't come up with anything better than "Failcake".

You're assuming I'll devote anyting more than half a second of my time to insult you.

[AlexXIV]

Saphra Deden wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

See I knew you could do it. Why not the first time?

I hate having to state the obvious.

If you knew this beforehand then why were you arguing with me?

AlexXIV wrote...

We didn't copy their tech and face them in open battle.

Except we did... and we did copy their tech. The Thanix and EDI are replications of Reaper technology. So is the Conduit.

Why wouldn't I argue with you, I may yet learn something.

Yes we copied some fo their tech, and it went well ... so far. If you're heading towards a cliff you can go near it or you can go one step too far. Of course you will argue that I cannot know when it is too far. And that using the base may not be one step too far. Maybe, maybe not. It mostly depends on having a choice. When I have the choice I will make do without reaper tech. It is dangerous and I am sure we will have to pay some price for using. Even the mass relays, even the citadel. Actually we are already paying because using the mass relays and citadel was what caught the attention of the reapers to begin with. It is why we now face extinction.

[Lotion Soronarr]

AlexXIV wrote...

Lotion I think it's foolish to use someone's tech against him. You can't compare real life because it is a different tech level. Who is to say that the Reapers don't have a tool to 'assimilate' or 'assume control' of all of their tech? You wouldn't know and if you find out because they actually do it, it would be too late. Yes, that's just a theory but just as valid as any other. We are talking about things nobody of us knows. You are will to take the risk, ok, got. I am not. What bothers me is that you people keep telling others that they are stupid because they disagree. And all about a science fiction game.

What part of "mastering the tech" you fail to grasp?
If you master a tech you know how it works. If you know how it works then such traps can't work on you.

Alos, as we seen form the Thanix, reapers don't seem to have an "assume control" switch. Not to mention that any kind of remote control requires direct communicatio nacess. closed systems. Unhackable.

And yes, I can compare real life. I'ts all a matter of understanding and repeating history. Facing a technologicly superior foe has never ended well for the underdog that refused to adapt. Never.

[AlexXIV]

Saphra Deden wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Lotion I think it's foolish to use someone's tech against him.

I think that's cute.

You should read Lotion's post, specifically the part about the American Indians.

Why, because the native americans didn't use guns? They used as much as they could. They simply never had a chance. If that was comparable to the Reaper situation we would lose no matter what we do. Basically if you think about it, if Shep wasn't an idealist from start he would have joined forces with Saren instead of opposing him. Because what Saren did was the smart thing. Only that it is a game and we play the protagonist who can make the impossible possible.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Biotic Sage wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

I can be wrong, but not in this specific thread.
Against such poor arguments it's easy to be right. Winning in this thread is as much as an acomplishment as picking my nose.

Lotion, honest question: have you ever actually conceded a point in a real honest to god discussion?

Yes. Plenty of times.

But it was in different discussions about different subjects... And against far superior debaters.

[AlexXIV]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Lotion I think it's foolish to use someone's tech against him. You can't compare real life because it is a different tech level. Who is to say that the Reapers don't have a tool to 'assimilate' or 'assume control' of all of their tech? You wouldn't know and if you find out because they actually do it, it would be too late. Yes, that's just a theory but just as valid as any other. We are talking about things nobody of us knows. You are will to take the risk, ok, got. I am not. What bothers me is that you people keep telling others that they are stupid because they disagree. And all about a science fiction game.

What part of "mastering the tech" you fail to grasp?
If you master a tech you know how it works. If you know how it works then such traps can't work on you.

Alos, as we seen form the Thanix, reapers don't seem to have an "assume control" switch. Not to mention that any kind of remote control requires direct communicatio nacess. closed systems. Unhackable.

And yes, I can compare real life. I'ts all a matter of understanding and repeating history. Facing a technologicly superior foe has never ended well for the underdog that refused to adapt. Never.

History does not repeat. It evolves. Which doesn't mean that certain patterns (i.e. human behaviour) doesn't repeat.

If mastering tech was so easy how come we didn't master nuclear energy yet? Or do you actually think we did?

[AlexXIV]

Saphra Deden wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Yes we copied some fo their tech, and it went well ... so far.

So your train of thought is that because utilizing Reaper technology in our fight against the Reapers has worked wonders so far, making our victories possible, that we should stop using Reaper tech because...?

I'm thinking we got lucky so far. We may get more lucky, or we may not. My Reaper theory is that their tech made them into what they are. And that the same may happen to us. The reapers leave their tech in the galaxy so other species find it and develop in a (by Reapers) desired way. Probably because they need genetic material of a special quality or compatibility. Whatever. However, using their tech is a bit doing what they want us to do. So am I supposed to think that doing what they want us to do is a good thing in the war against them?

Honestly alot of the story does not make sense if I think about it too much. I don't Bioware have thought it through as much as some people here on the BSN. Because if I did, I would have to conclude that we can give up by now because we have already lost.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 11 décembre 2011 - 03:07 .

[DonutsDealer]

The problem with keeping the base is that it goes to Cerberus, and they are know for a high rate of failure in their experiments. Also no matter what technology they research there it will go for Cerberus exclusive use, they won't share it with the Alliance or the Council, so you are just increasing the strengh of a problematic group. And TIM will ultimately look for his own interests and survival, not for humanity as a whole ("Cerberus is humanity" shows that clearly).

So no, keeping the base won't help us at all. The only one who benefits from the CB is Cerberus, not the fleets that will fight the reapers. The reason they want the base is just to increase Ceberus' power after the war ("Against the reaper and beyond").

[AlexXIV]

Saphra Deden wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Why, because the native americans didn't use guns? They used as much as they could.

The point is that the technological gap is what lead to their destruction. They used what they could, which was very little. However the tech that they did use, like firearms and horse riding was a huge help for them. It was how they managed to survive as long as they did.

Your argument just doesn't have any factual support. You claim using Reaper tech will lead us to our doom even though using it has been critical to our survival.

You have no defense for this, none. The fact that you can't just admit that what you are arguing is unsupported is evidence of your lack of integrity. Just admit that you are wrong and that maybe you need to re-think your theory here which you likely pulled out of your ass or Legion's ass.

It was technological gap, but also numbers. The european 'invaders' outnumbered the natives by far. That's why I say bad example because they never had a chance. But I agree, technical level would of course make a difference. That is if you 'mastered' the tech as Lotion would put it.

And I pulled it out of Legion's ass. What's wrong with that?

Modifié par AlexXIV, 11 décembre 2011 - 03:05 .

[AlexXIV]

Saphra Deden wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

It was technological gap, but also numbers.

The numbers were caused by technology which allowed European communities to grow larger and larger while the American natives were stuck in the stone age.

You're ignorant.

(how surprising) <---- sarcasm

And I denied that when? You sure like to make up your own arguments to win them. I am saying that they had superiour tech and were outnumbered, and lost because of that. If for example only a hundret 'white' people invaded they may not have succeded, even with their superior tech. Which means that tech is not everything. There are actually multiple examples of warlike barbarian cultures crushing more civilized cultures. For example in asia.

[AlexXIV]

Saphra Deden wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

I'm thinking we got lucky so far.

You're contradicting yourself, hon.

AlexXIV wrote...

As I said before we need to find the weakness. Like we captured the base, like we killed Sovereign. We didn't copy their tech and face them in open battle. We snook in to the back door, found the weakness, exploited it.

Are you saying this was refering to luck and not strategy? Are you saying it was luck and not the application of captured technology?

Shep's getting lucky alot of times. So without luck ME1 would have ended differently, so I don't know how to answer this. Probably both. I don't dispute that using Reaper tech in the past paid off. I am debating that it always will. Of course it would be easier to just play ME3 and see it for ourselves instead of discussing what ifs.