That's what everyone participating in a heated debate on the Internet looks like.
To all people who didn't blow up the Collector base...
Débuté par
ArMedSuRViVoR
, nov. 30 2011 11:55
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#1302
Posté 13 décembre 2011 - 04:45
BlueMagitek
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In space. That's what everyone participating in an heated debate on the Internet looks like in space.
#1303
Posté 13 décembre 2011 - 04:55
Ravensword
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In space, nobody can hear you scream.
#1304
Posté 13 décembre 2011 - 04:59
C9316
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*Walks in* Hey guys what's going on in this threa- Aw Sh*t!
#1305
Posté 13 décembre 2011 - 04:59
Ravensword
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C9316 wrote...
*Walks in* Hey guys what's going on in this threa- Aw Sh*t!
Oh, hai, Mark!
#1306
Posté 13 décembre 2011 - 04:59
HappyHappyJoyJoy
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BlueMagitek wrote...
So you didn't really make your own choice in a game where making your own choice is meant to be a selling point...
Well yeah
#1308
Posté 13 décembre 2011 - 05:18
Mecha Tengu
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Ravensword wrote...
C9316 wrote...
*Walks in* Hey guys what's going on in this threa- Aw Sh*t!
Oh, hai, Mark!
you r teering me apart lisa
#1309
Posté 13 décembre 2011 - 05:19
Ravensword
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Mecha Tengu wrote...
Ravensword wrote...
C9316 wrote...
*Walks in* Hey guys what's going on in this threa- Aw Sh*t!
Oh, hai, Mark!
you r teering me apart lisa
I never hit you.
#1310
Posté 13 décembre 2011 - 06:47
Labrev
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I'm gonna cut this down to the few things that are still relevant...
[quote]Lotion Soronnar wrote...
As I said, it's easy to say "this shoudl have ben doen like this" in hindsight.
The very fact that everyone in the ME universe had experiments blow up in their place and rouge agents doesn't really single Cerberus out as any more incompetent.[/quote]
Hindsight? If they just learn this mistake from Teltin years ago, Overlord is probably avoided altogether (TIM doesn't threaten to pull the plug, Archer does not make rash move of plugging David into VI).
[quote]The irony here is incredible. Their failure record is clear as day from two games alone.[/quote]
And I don't care what Cerberus apologists want to bring up as successes out-of-game, seeing as they tend to be demented enough to consider Teltin a success, when Cerberus themselves don't even believe as much![/quote]
Everoyne, join the irony train...[/quote]
... indeed ...
[quote][quote]
[quote]I didn't argue with myself. I confirmed what we got out of project Rho. If you think that was worthless, you're wlecome to fight the reapers several motnths earlier.[/quote]
No, the post you responded to, here:
[quote]And what success are we talking about here? Delaying them. Oh, jolly good. Now tell me how you actually plan to FIGHT them? what did Project Rho yield in that regard?[/quote]
... was your own.
[/quote]
Dude.
.the post you quotds is your own....[/quote]
No that was you. I for one would never say "Oh, jolly good."
[quote][quote]The Collectors in their small size were carrying out abductions of entire colonies. "I'd say that fits the definition of harvesting," says Jack Harper of their terrorism. Now their tools/weapons will belong to Cerberus. They can carry out the same thing what the Reapers/Collectors have been doing. It seems the abortion is on you, somewhere along the last two lines of thinking in this very spelled-out logic.[/quote]
No one knew where the collector base was, no one had the IFF.
Cerberus doesn't have those advantages.
Also, why the hell would Cerberus kidnap colonies? Don't start the "they'll make a human reaper" insanity again. that's crazy talk.[/quote]
[quote]WTF is with this thinking that reaper tech will magicly make Cerberus into an unstoppable force...and then saying reapers (who are far more numeros and experienced and cna use that tech even more efficiently) can be stopped or that the base can yield nothing of import?[/quote]
Only Cerberus has that IFF afaik, and they can "hide" beyond the O4 relay again.
Maybe they reboot the seeker-swarms to strengthen humanity's dominance in the galaxy by abducting/killing off entire alien populations, or use them against any groups that try to undermine their plans.
In the end, the purpose doesn't matter. It's a weapon to be used all the same, and one of the very things that made the Collectors a huge problem on a huge scale (despite size no bigger than Cerberus).
[quote][quote]And there's nothing duplicious about survival of your species. There is no higher goal.
Why would you use it in quotation marks is beyond me....[/quote]
There is survival involved when the Reapers are still in power. Before they arrive, life goes on. Sure, people die later when they decide to kill everyone, but plenty others still live before them and will again afterwards. Is that not good enough? (note: I'm not seriously asking that question).[/quote]
Then why post it?[/quote]
I'm making a point at how lame survival is as a single goal, if not with freedom from a major galactic threat. That's why I wouldn't waste my time fighting the war if I'm just replacing the problem with another one. To say "it's okay, at least we survive in the end" is not enough. In the end, life goes on after the Reaper-cycles too. Is that good enough? The answer is no.
[quote]Cerberus certanly can become big enough to really threaten any of the galactic powers.[/quote]
Yep.
That's why I reject the notion that the Alliance/Council could just deal with them so easily in the end. Again, TIM started Cerberus by turning an Alliance cell rogue, I wouldn't underestimate his opporunistic nature to expand Cerberus greatly - be that in manpower, warships, or what have you.
[quote][quote]What limit exists on cloning?[/quote]
clones still need tie to grow. They need to eat. They need equipment. They need training. And more. And every one of those things have to be provided.[/quote]
Per Mordin - no vital systems, everything's replaced by tech. As far as we know, they are clones like Grunt is supposedly a clone: ready to fight.
[quote][quote]I saw that, still have a couple problems here:
1.) Imminent death without the base is no more a guarantee any more than survival is with it intact.
2.) If that self-inflicted wound ends up costing you when you otherwise may have had a chance to win, you clearly made the wrong decision.[/quote]
1) Yes it is. You've yet to provide ANYTHING - even an indication - that we can win.
2) I dont' have a chance to win. [/quote]
1.) Like I said, I cannot guarantee it any more than you can guarantee the base will give us a chance to win where we otherwise don't have any. So ultimately, you can't prove this "imminent death, no chance to win" scenario outline as you insist is the case.
2.) Again, you don't know of that (see #1). The idea we can win the war we otherwise have no chance of with the base alone is far-fetched to say the least.
As far as you've asserted, you don't believe the tech from the base could protect Cerberus against efforts by the Council/Alliance to wipe them out, and you think it gives us a fighting chance against the Reapers?
To get back on track - if there was a chance (can't rule out the possibility of it as neither of us can prove there is/isn't one either way) and said self-inflicted wound cripples yourself to the point of ultimate failure, it was the wrong decision. Period.
[quote][quote]This is the issue I'm facing with the decision as a whole - making a rash/reckless decision because of this "we have no choice" mentality.[/quote]
More like "we have no better choice".
If I'm wrong and there is another choice, I'm still waiting to hear it. Been waiting since this thread stated.
I invite you...no... I DARE you to give me a better alternative.[/quote]
You're making it out like nothing happens in the war sans Collector Base. There will be - that's the alternative. Everything that will take place otherwise, without making a new major threat out of a group that's already a galactic nuissance without it.
[quote]Lotion Soronnar wrote...
As I said, it's easy to say "this shoudl have ben doen like this" in hindsight.
The very fact that everyone in the ME universe had experiments blow up in their place and rouge agents doesn't really single Cerberus out as any more incompetent.[/quote]
Hindsight? If they just learn this mistake from Teltin years ago, Overlord is probably avoided altogether (TIM doesn't threaten to pull the plug, Archer does not make rash move of plugging David into VI).
[quote]The irony here is incredible. Their failure record is clear as day from two games alone.[/quote]
And I don't care what Cerberus apologists want to bring up as successes out-of-game, seeing as they tend to be demented enough to consider Teltin a success, when Cerberus themselves don't even believe as much![/quote]
Everoyne, join the irony train...[/quote]
... indeed ...
[quote][quote]
[quote]I didn't argue with myself. I confirmed what we got out of project Rho. If you think that was worthless, you're wlecome to fight the reapers several motnths earlier.[/quote]
No, the post you responded to, here:
[quote]And what success are we talking about here? Delaying them. Oh, jolly good. Now tell me how you actually plan to FIGHT them? what did Project Rho yield in that regard?[/quote]
... was your own.
[/quote]Dude.
.the post you quotds is your own....[/quote]No that was you. I for one would never say "Oh, jolly good."
[quote][quote]The Collectors in their small size were carrying out abductions of entire colonies. "I'd say that fits the definition of harvesting," says Jack Harper of their terrorism. Now their tools/weapons will belong to Cerberus. They can carry out the same thing what the Reapers/Collectors have been doing. It seems the abortion is on you, somewhere along the last two lines of thinking in this very spelled-out logic.[/quote]
No one knew where the collector base was, no one had the IFF.
Cerberus doesn't have those advantages.
Also, why the hell would Cerberus kidnap colonies? Don't start the "they'll make a human reaper" insanity again. that's crazy talk.[/quote]
[quote]WTF is with this thinking that reaper tech will magicly make Cerberus into an unstoppable force...and then saying reapers (who are far more numeros and experienced and cna use that tech even more efficiently) can be stopped or that the base can yield nothing of import?[/quote]
Only Cerberus has that IFF afaik, and they can "hide" beyond the O4 relay again.
Maybe they reboot the seeker-swarms to strengthen humanity's dominance in the galaxy by abducting/killing off entire alien populations, or use them against any groups that try to undermine their plans.
In the end, the purpose doesn't matter. It's a weapon to be used all the same, and one of the very things that made the Collectors a huge problem on a huge scale (despite size no bigger than Cerberus).
[quote][quote]And there's nothing duplicious about survival of your species. There is no higher goal.
Why would you use it in quotation marks is beyond me....[/quote]
There is survival involved when the Reapers are still in power. Before they arrive, life goes on. Sure, people die later when they decide to kill everyone, but plenty others still live before them and will again afterwards. Is that not good enough? (note: I'm not seriously asking that question).[/quote]
Then why post it?[/quote]
I'm making a point at how lame survival is as a single goal, if not with freedom from a major galactic threat. That's why I wouldn't waste my time fighting the war if I'm just replacing the problem with another one. To say "it's okay, at least we survive in the end" is not enough. In the end, life goes on after the Reaper-cycles too. Is that good enough? The answer is no.
[quote]Cerberus certanly can become big enough to really threaten any of the galactic powers.[/quote]
Yep.
That's why I reject the notion that the Alliance/Council could just deal with them so easily in the end. Again, TIM started Cerberus by turning an Alliance cell rogue, I wouldn't underestimate his opporunistic nature to expand Cerberus greatly - be that in manpower, warships, or what have you.
[quote][quote]What limit exists on cloning?[/quote]
clones still need tie to grow. They need to eat. They need equipment. They need training. And more. And every one of those things have to be provided.[/quote]
Per Mordin - no vital systems, everything's replaced by tech. As far as we know, they are clones like Grunt is supposedly a clone: ready to fight.
[quote][quote]I saw that, still have a couple problems here:
1.) Imminent death without the base is no more a guarantee any more than survival is with it intact.
2.) If that self-inflicted wound ends up costing you when you otherwise may have had a chance to win, you clearly made the wrong decision.[/quote]
1) Yes it is. You've yet to provide ANYTHING - even an indication - that we can win.
2) I dont' have a chance to win. [/quote]
1.) Like I said, I cannot guarantee it any more than you can guarantee the base will give us a chance to win where we otherwise don't have any. So ultimately, you can't prove this "imminent death, no chance to win" scenario outline as you insist is the case.
2.) Again, you don't know of that (see #1). The idea we can win the war we otherwise have no chance of with the base alone is far-fetched to say the least.
As far as you've asserted, you don't believe the tech from the base could protect Cerberus against efforts by the Council/Alliance to wipe them out, and you think it gives us a fighting chance against the Reapers?
To get back on track - if there was a chance (can't rule out the possibility of it as neither of us can prove there is/isn't one either way) and said self-inflicted wound cripples yourself to the point of ultimate failure, it was the wrong decision. Period.
[quote][quote]This is the issue I'm facing with the decision as a whole - making a rash/reckless decision because of this "we have no choice" mentality.[/quote]
More like "we have no better choice".
If I'm wrong and there is another choice, I'm still waiting to hear it. Been waiting since this thread stated.
I invite you...no... I DARE you to give me a better alternative.[/quote]
You're making it out like nothing happens in the war sans Collector Base. There will be - that's the alternative. Everything that will take place otherwise, without making a new major threat out of a group that's already a galactic nuissance without it.
#1311
Posté 13 décembre 2011 - 07:00
Biotic Sage
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Saphra Deden wrote...
jreezy wrote...
Necessary for our survival though? That remains to be seen.
Indeed it is an unknown, so why do you want to take the risk? If you need the base but destroyed it you are screwed. If you don't need the base but kept it then you are no worse off and it might still be helpful to have.
You have a good point about the unkown, but it works both ways. Keeping the base has unknown consequences as well. Since we do not understand the Collector base (and I'm assuming it would take years of research to completely understand it), isn't there an inherent risk in keeping it as well? How do you know it doesn't have some kind of sleeper protocol that would benefit the Reapers?
Yes, destroying the base could be potentially sacrificing valuable intelligence that we could use against the Reapers. Yes keeping the base could be setting us up for a surprise backlash, not to mention the added Cerberus uncertainty factor since that is who will inherit the base at the end of ME2 if it is kept. To me it was kind of a Sophie's choice, but I ultimately lean more toward destroying it: in 5 of my 9 playthroughs I elected to destroy it, so it is not a heavy lean, but a lean nonetheless.
#1312
Guest_Catch This Fade_*
Posté 13 décembre 2011 - 07:02
Guest_Catch This Fade_*
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Meta-gaming takes the fun out of the decision. I could never purposely play like that.Another_Golden_Dragon wrote...
I destroyed the Base for two reasons.
1, when I first got to that point, I went on-line and looked around. All info that I could find pointed to that choice being the Paragon path/option.
2. I wanted out from under Cerberus' dominion, and destroying it simply because The Illusive Man said he wanted it seemed like a good way to go....
As for the final canon, at least as regards the base: I will be starting a new run-thru of ME 1 & 2 shortly before 3/6/2012. By the time I get there, the results of such (destroy or preserve) will be all over the forums. Then. I'll know best what to do.
Then put a bullet in the Illusive Man's skull. And again for good measure. And again just for fun.
#1313
Posté 13 décembre 2011 - 07:21
Lotion Soronarr
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Ravensword wrote...
Mecha Tengu wrote...
Ravensword wrote...
C9316 wrote...
*Walks in* Hey guys what's going on in this threa- Aw Sh*t!
Oh, hai, Mark!
you r teering me apart lisa
I never hit you.
So anyway, how's your sex life?
#1314
Posté 13 décembre 2011 - 08:17
Lotion Soronarr
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[quote]Hah Yes Reapers wrote...
Hindsight? If they just learn this mistake from Teltin years ago, Overlord is probably avoided altogether (TIM doesn't threaten to pull the plug, Archer does not make rash move of plugging David into VI).[/quote]
Threatening to pull is plug is hardly a bad decision. People do it all the time for projects everywhere.
And the mistake wasn't strapping David in, it was not letting the poor sod sleep.
Oversight is not the same as omniscense.
[quote][quote]
No one knew where the collector base was, no one had the IFF.
Cerberus doesn't have those advantages.
Also, why the hell would Cerberus kidnap colonies? Don't start the "they'll make a human reaper" insanity again. that's crazy talk.
WTF is with this thinking that reaper tech will magicly make Cerberus
into an unstoppable force...and then saying reapers (who are far more
numeros and experienced and cna use that tech even more efficiently) can
be stopped or that the base can yield nothing of import?[/quote]
Only Cerberus has that IFF afaik, and they can "hide" beyond the O4 relay again.[/quote]
No, they can't. Sheppard (and by extension the Alliance) has the IFF.
The only entrance and exit to the base is known.
[quote]
Maybe they reboot the seeker-swarms to strengthen humanity's dominance in the galaxy by abducting/killing off entire alien populations, or use them against any groups that try to undermine their plans.[/quote]
Except Morodin developed a defense agaisnt it in 1 day. Whoopdy do.
[quote]
I'm making a point at how lame survival is as a single goal, if not with freedom from a major galactic threat. That's why I wouldn't waste my time fighting the war if I'm just replacing the problem with another one. To say "it's okay, at least we survive in the end" is not enough. In the end, life goes on after the Reaper-cycles too. Is that good enough? The answer is no.[/quote]
Slavery is temporay, extinction is permanent.
If I'm a slave, I can fight and gain freedom. If I'm dead I can't. I'm neither free nor alive.
Now I know you live in fantasy land where Cerberus can magicly take over and ensalve the galaxy, but us sensible people like to focus on things that are actually possible and/or credible.
[quote]
Yep.
That's why I reject the notion that the Alliance/Council could just deal with them so easily in the end. Again, TIM started Cerberus by turning an Alliance cell rogue, I wouldn't underestimate his opporunistic nature to expand Cerberus greatly - be that in manpower, warships, or what have you.[/quote]
No. Cerberus can't become that big.
You're being silly.
You don't just "get" warships or an modern army.
[quote][quote]
clones still need tie to grow. They need to eat. They need equipment. They need training. And more. And every one of those things have to be provided.[/quote]
Per Mordin - no vital systems, everything's replaced by tech. As far as we know, they are clones like Grunt is supposedly a clone: ready to fight.[/quote]
And Grunt eats. Grunt needs equipment. He needs transportation.
Armies - any army - requires an upkeep and an backing infrastructure.
[quote]
1.) Like I said, I cannot guarantee it any more than you can guarantee the base will give us a chance to win where we otherwise don't have any. So ultimately, you can't prove this "imminent death, no chance to win" scenario outline as you insist is the case.
2.) Again, you don't know of that (see #1). The idea we can win the war we otherwise have no chance of with the base alone is far-fetched to say the least.[/quote]
You are wrong. I can prove our defeat is FAR more likely without the base. Heck, I can practicly guarantee our defeat. I can't guarantee victory, I can guarantee an advantage.
You can't guaranty jack s*** except our extinction.
The idea we can't win the war without some advantage is based on facts and observations. Feel free to ignore those. Lords know you don't let silly things like reason get in the way of your fantasies.
[quote]
As far as you've asserted, you don't believe the tech from the base could protect Cerberus against efforts by the Council/Alliance to wipe them out, and you think it gives us a fighting chance against the Reapers?[/quote]
Yes. Because the advantage of tech is also in it's profileration.
Critical mass. Cerberus lacks it. Cerberus can't make effective use of that tech alone.
[quote]
To get back on track - if there was a chance (can't rule out the possibility of it as neither of us can prove there is/isn't one either way) and said self-inflicted wound cripples yourself to the point of ultimate failure, it was the wrong decision. Period.[/quote]
Attempting to survive is never a wrong decision.
You have already faield ultimatively.
[quote][quote]
More like "we have no better choice".
If I'm wrong and there is another choice, I'm still waiting to hear it. Been waiting since this thread stated.
I invite you...no... I DARE you to give me a better alternative.[/quote]
You're making it out like nothing happens in the war sans Collector Base. There will be - that's the alternative. Everything that will take place otherwise, without making a new major threat out of a group that's already a galactic nuissance without it.[/quote]
So your plan is "something will turn up"? Later. Once the war already starts. Once we already sustain so much losses that it will be too late for new tech to turn the tide (history is full of such examples)
That's not an alternative. I'm glad you finally admitt you have nothing. Your plans are as empty as your future.
Hindsight? If they just learn this mistake from Teltin years ago, Overlord is probably avoided altogether (TIM doesn't threaten to pull the plug, Archer does not make rash move of plugging David into VI).[/quote]
Threatening to pull is plug is hardly a bad decision. People do it all the time for projects everywhere.
And the mistake wasn't strapping David in, it was not letting the poor sod sleep.
Oversight is not the same as omniscense.
[quote][quote]
No one knew where the collector base was, no one had the IFF.
Cerberus doesn't have those advantages.
Also, why the hell would Cerberus kidnap colonies? Don't start the "they'll make a human reaper" insanity again. that's crazy talk.
WTF is with this thinking that reaper tech will magicly make Cerberus
into an unstoppable force...and then saying reapers (who are far more
numeros and experienced and cna use that tech even more efficiently) can
be stopped or that the base can yield nothing of import?[/quote]
Only Cerberus has that IFF afaik, and they can "hide" beyond the O4 relay again.[/quote]
No, they can't. Sheppard (and by extension the Alliance) has the IFF.
The only entrance and exit to the base is known.
[quote]
Maybe they reboot the seeker-swarms to strengthen humanity's dominance in the galaxy by abducting/killing off entire alien populations, or use them against any groups that try to undermine their plans.[/quote]
Except Morodin developed a defense agaisnt it in 1 day. Whoopdy do.
[quote]
I'm making a point at how lame survival is as a single goal, if not with freedom from a major galactic threat. That's why I wouldn't waste my time fighting the war if I'm just replacing the problem with another one. To say "it's okay, at least we survive in the end" is not enough. In the end, life goes on after the Reaper-cycles too. Is that good enough? The answer is no.[/quote]
Slavery is temporay, extinction is permanent.
If I'm a slave, I can fight and gain freedom. If I'm dead I can't. I'm neither free nor alive.
Now I know you live in fantasy land where Cerberus can magicly take over and ensalve the galaxy, but us sensible people like to focus on things that are actually possible and/or credible.
[quote]
Yep.
That's why I reject the notion that the Alliance/Council could just deal with them so easily in the end. Again, TIM started Cerberus by turning an Alliance cell rogue, I wouldn't underestimate his opporunistic nature to expand Cerberus greatly - be that in manpower, warships, or what have you.[/quote]
No. Cerberus can't become that big.
You're being silly.
You don't just "get" warships or an modern army.
[quote][quote]
clones still need tie to grow. They need to eat. They need equipment. They need training. And more. And every one of those things have to be provided.[/quote]
Per Mordin - no vital systems, everything's replaced by tech. As far as we know, they are clones like Grunt is supposedly a clone: ready to fight.[/quote]
And Grunt eats. Grunt needs equipment. He needs transportation.
Armies - any army - requires an upkeep and an backing infrastructure.
[quote]
1.) Like I said, I cannot guarantee it any more than you can guarantee the base will give us a chance to win where we otherwise don't have any. So ultimately, you can't prove this "imminent death, no chance to win" scenario outline as you insist is the case.
2.) Again, you don't know of that (see #1). The idea we can win the war we otherwise have no chance of with the base alone is far-fetched to say the least.[/quote]
You are wrong. I can prove our defeat is FAR more likely without the base. Heck, I can practicly guarantee our defeat. I can't guarantee victory, I can guarantee an advantage.
You can't guaranty jack s*** except our extinction.
The idea we can't win the war without some advantage is based on facts and observations. Feel free to ignore those. Lords know you don't let silly things like reason get in the way of your fantasies.
[quote]
As far as you've asserted, you don't believe the tech from the base could protect Cerberus against efforts by the Council/Alliance to wipe them out, and you think it gives us a fighting chance against the Reapers?[/quote]
Yes. Because the advantage of tech is also in it's profileration.
Critical mass. Cerberus lacks it. Cerberus can't make effective use of that tech alone.
[quote]
To get back on track - if there was a chance (can't rule out the possibility of it as neither of us can prove there is/isn't one either way) and said self-inflicted wound cripples yourself to the point of ultimate failure, it was the wrong decision. Period.[/quote]
Attempting to survive is never a wrong decision.
You have already faield ultimatively.
[quote][quote]
More like "we have no better choice".
If I'm wrong and there is another choice, I'm still waiting to hear it. Been waiting since this thread stated.
I invite you...no... I DARE you to give me a better alternative.[/quote]
You're making it out like nothing happens in the war sans Collector Base. There will be - that's the alternative. Everything that will take place otherwise, without making a new major threat out of a group that's already a galactic nuissance without it.[/quote]
So your plan is "something will turn up"? Later. Once the war already starts. Once we already sustain so much losses that it will be too late for new tech to turn the tide (history is full of such examples)
That's not an alternative. I'm glad you finally admitt you have nothing. Your plans are as empty as your future.
Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 13 décembre 2011 - 08:39 .
#1315
Posté 13 décembre 2011 - 08:19
Lotion Soronarr
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Biotic Sage wrote...
You have a good point about the unkown, but it works both ways. Keeping the base has unknown consequences as well. Since we do not understand the Collector base (and I'm assuming it would take years of research to completely understand it), isn't there an inherent risk in keeping it as well? How do you know it doesn't have some kind of sleeper protocol that would benefit the Reapers?
What kind of consequence could be WORSE than reapers?
#1316
Posté 13 décembre 2011 - 10:46
BellaStrega
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Except for the last two posts, the last two pages are the best I've read in this thread.
It's kind of amazing to me that this argument is still going on, and the "keep the base" types are still unwilling to see any perspective but their own.
It's kind of amazing to me that this argument is still going on, and the "keep the base" types are still unwilling to see any perspective but their own.
#1317
Posté 13 décembre 2011 - 10:59
Lotion Soronarr
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DPSSOC wrote...
Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Nope. Forst of all, you dont' know if things will go wrong. You don't. So stop talking rubbish.
It's Cerberus, somethings going to go wrong. Even their successes; Lazarus, Teltin, Overlord, etc. are massive screw ups. Now I gave them the base but I'm not under any delusions about what's going to happen. Anything we do manage to get from the base is going to come with a very high body count and probably some major catastrophy. You know like Rachni being secretly unleashed upon the galaxy or a virus that could start the machine apocalypse.
Bollocks.
Facts prove you wrong. Tehre's plenty of hteir research and missiosn to go off perfectly. Also, having a traitor turn on you AFTER the reasearch is compelte is not a research faliure. Having your scientists indoctrinated after tehy compelted their task is not a research faliure.
By your logic, if the US during WW2 researched and produced nukes, and the base in which the researc hwas made got destroyed later...then it is a faliure. US gained nothing from it...except working nukes.
Lotion Soronnar wrote...
You have nothing, we have something.
No, people who destroy the base still appear to have the schematics of a Reaper, which as I said is all you can really expect to get from a Reaper manufacturing facility; detailed information on the inner workings of the Reapers. The only other piece of info you might get from the base is better understanding of how the Reapers control the Collectors, which could be useful but it's not really a "win the war" kinda useful.
So a picture of a reaper is suddenly "valubale chematics". Thet didn't look liek schematics to me.
And the idioticy of claiming that reaper schematics is all we can get....laughable.
We can get so much more.
Tell me, if I data mine your conmputer, will I get the schematics for your conputer? Can I build it from scratch after that? No?
Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Cerberus keeping the base is not faliure, since Cerberus will be fighting reapers too.Have I missed something because, like I said E3. I've gone on a media blackout since because ME2's marketing was just spoilerific so I'd rather not be disappointed before I even get the game.
Cerberus is fighting the reapers in ME3. It's just they and Shep have different ideas on how to do it.
#1318
Posté 13 décembre 2011 - 11:02
Lotion Soronarr
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BellaStrega wrote...
Except for the last two posts, the last two pages are the best I've read in this thread.
It's kind of amazing to me that this argument is still going on, and the "keep the base" types are still unwilling to see any perspective but their own.
Oh, I see your perspective..and I understand your reasoning.
It's just that it's flawed and utterly wrong.
"Earth is 6000 years old! Why are you unwilling to see my perspective? You evil little man!"
#1319
Posté 13 décembre 2011 - 11:04
Lotion Soronarr
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Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...
Saphra Deden wrote...
People who are confident we can defeat the Reapers are either ignorant and/or meta-gaming. I was confident too... until I thought about the situation in detail and realized how hopeless it was. It was depressing.
Indoctrinated much?
Is indoctrinated your slang for reasonable?
If so, then yes. Very much so.
#1320
Guest_Catch This Fade_*
Posté 13 décembre 2011 - 11:07
Guest_Catch This Fade_*
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"The enemy of my enemy is my enemy." isn''t the best way to go about fighting the Reapers. They're helping them more than anything else as far as we've been told.Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Cerberus is fighting the reapers in ME3. It's just they and Shep have different ideas on how to do it.
#1321
Posté 13 décembre 2011 - 11:08
Lotion Soronarr
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Medhia Nox wrote...
You guys really are wasting time - just write something, and then play ad libs with any of the above replies, then don't even bother posting. It's just like talking to Saphra and Lotion. It's saved me tons of time.
Seems I am replacable.
Alas, you are unique.
I'm afraid the obscene levels of tedium and stupidty you can produce cannot be simulated by anythiing else.
#1322
Posté 13 décembre 2011 - 11:11
Seboist
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BellaStrega wrote...
Except for the last two posts, the last two pages are the best I've read in this thread.
It's kind of amazing to me that this argument is still going on, and the "keep the base" types are still unwilling to see any perspective but their own.
Easy to do when the "alternative" is wanting to beat the reapers with good intentions.
#1323
Posté 13 décembre 2011 - 11:11
Lotion Soronarr
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Someone With Mass wrote...
Don't you know?
Meta-gaming is their answer to everyone's opinions that are opposing theirs.
When that oppinion is based on BS. Yes.
HEy SWM, I has a question for you.
You are walking trough the forest when you get attacked by several bears. As you try to run away you run into a dead end, but notice an old sword stuck in the ground. Would you say taking it to fight off the bears is a logical decision?
*SPOILER*
The blade was cursed and it sucked your soul. You couldn't have known that, but who cares? You are a moron and your decision was not logical.
This is what your metagaming arguments end up like...like so much garbage
*SPOLIER*
Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 13 décembre 2011 - 11:12 .
#1324
Posté 13 décembre 2011 - 11:16
DRACO1130
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base destroyed or not - either way you get the data pad from Joker in final scene of ME2 - shows reaper tech readouts which normandy(EDI) took from base
Normandy riddled with data collection nodes - what normandy knows Illusive man already knows - Only advantage - Normandy is ONLY ship with reaper IFF - any way you slice it - Ilusive man cannto get to the base - only shepheard can via Omega 4 relay with the reaper IFF -
Which always bugged the hell out of me about ME2 - why make such a big deal over the collector base ? save it or blow it - Shepherd has control over it because he has means to get to it - so for ME2 - its a non issue
ME3 however - reapers return - BAD idea to have base remain - let alone be at/on it when a Reaper comes knocking at the door.
Like so much else - it is entirely dependent on the time differential
How much(if any) time passed between ME2 & ME 3 - my theory is - none at all - the closing scene of ME2 is the OPENING scene of ME3 - quite probably the basis for additional content in the Arrival pack
Normandy riddled with data collection nodes - what normandy knows Illusive man already knows - Only advantage - Normandy is ONLY ship with reaper IFF - any way you slice it - Ilusive man cannto get to the base - only shepheard can via Omega 4 relay with the reaper IFF -
Which always bugged the hell out of me about ME2 - why make such a big deal over the collector base ? save it or blow it - Shepherd has control over it because he has means to get to it - so for ME2 - its a non issue
ME3 however - reapers return - BAD idea to have base remain - let alone be at/on it when a Reaper comes knocking at the door.
Like so much else - it is entirely dependent on the time differential
How much(if any) time passed between ME2 & ME 3 - my theory is - none at all - the closing scene of ME2 is the OPENING scene of ME3 - quite probably the basis for additional content in the Arrival pack
#1325
Posté 13 décembre 2011 - 11:18
vvDRUCILLAvv
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This whole debate is so ridiculous it's hilarious! 
