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[AlexXIV]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...
We are not animals anymore who just follow instincts, at least some of us. Some people starved to death to make a point, even though they could have had food. But they chose not to. Doesn't mean that nature isn't 'calling' but we can resist it's urge and do something completely stupid and un-darwinistic. Like killing ourself for no good reason (or for a good reason).

I'd consider death of an entire species un-darwinistic....

I don't know where you get this negative vibe. I mean I have seen my share of BS in life and actually I have not come out of it completely yet, but I would consider it a personal defeat if I give up my ideals because of nature, or society or ... whoever. Just because life may be unfair it doesn't mean that I as an individual have to be, or we as a society. We have a choice, the choice to forge a world after our will. If we want it. If enough of us want it.

To have ideals is one thing.
To sacrifice everyone and everything for them is another.

I am not sacrificing everyone and everything for my ideals. I'd actually sacrifice my ideals if I thought the price is too high. At some points it is. But I have not been at this point in ME, or Bioware games in general. You probably think it is 'meta-gaming' that I make decisions based on knowing how Bioware write stories/games. I see it more as adapting. I don't like it any more than you, but if I know that in a 'game-world' being idealistic pays off, then I am idealistic in this game-world. For once because I would be in real life too if I knew it works, and also because I don't think it makes sense to lead a rebellion against the writers. The writers always win. It's like rebelling against god.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 15 décembre 2011 - 06:17 .

[AlexXIV]

Saphra, you know how traps work? Traps usually don't have big signs warning you to not get close because it could be dangerous. Traps try hard to look innocent and/or friendly. And then at some point SNAP! no return, no escape.

You don't need to know how exactly a trap works if you are warned that there is a trap, or could be a trap. You just try to avoid everything that seems risky. Or too risky. We have more or less been warned by he Protheans and Geth. Those who know more about Reapers than anyone. They warned us that using Reaper tech is ... um ... not desireable. Because using their tech leads us down a path that the Reapers planned for us. Hell it may even be that people who use it are less resistant to their indoctrination. Which would coincede with most people being exposed to their tech for a longer time turn up as husks or indoctrinated.

You just need to read the signs on the wall. Just because it went well so far doesn't mean it could not be a trap. It could as well mean that it is a rather well developed trap. I mean really, see how often people repeat how much we need the base and the tech to win this war. Isn't it obvious? Isn't it the cheese the mouse wants so badly. Presented openly, with seemingly nobody guarding. So you may think you can chew on the cheese without setting it off just enough to fill your belly and run off. May work, or it may break your neck.

I sometimes find it funny that people deny the possibility that an obvious choice could as well mean an obvious trap.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 15 décembre 2011 - 06:35 .

[AlexXIV]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

How does saving the rachni queen demonstrate this?

Well if you release her because "It's the right thing to do," or "I won't commit genocide" or for some other moral argument then you are putting your own personal beliefs and standards ahead of the lives of the people the rachni may endanger.

I said "lesser extent" because Shepard can use the justification of the rachni being useful allies against the Reapers. I think it is a little far-fetched, but I'd be a hypocrite if I said that was a bad justification.

Well but we are social beings. You don't develop a conscience or ideology all on your own. Society teaches you. So in a way Shepard making this call is humanity making this call. Because they taught Shepard to have ideals.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 15 décembre 2011 - 06:34 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

All the reasons to not trust Cerberus, not trust TIM, and not hand over the Collector Base, have been given over and over, and no matter what reason is given, the Cerberus fans will find a way to dismiss that reason and cling to it. "Oh that wasn't Cerberus" or "oh that branch had gone rogue" or "oh that's just the price of success" or...

[111987]

Saphra Deden wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

I am not sacrificing everyone and everything for my ideals.

Saving the Council, letting Balak escape, and destroying the Collector base is you demonstrating your willingness to sacrifice everyone else for your ideals. To a lesser extent Overlord and the rachni queen demonstrate this as well.

That depends on your motivations. If you decide to save the Council to avoid having the Geth attack you from behind, or to save the Destiny Ascension so it can help battle Sovereign, the choice is justified.

For Overlord, if you've already recruited Legion and done its loyalty mission, Overlord becomes redundant and there's no reason for it.

Saving the Rachni Queen is the same choice as the saving the Collector Base; keeping around a potentially game-changing asset, knowing that it could also backfire big time on you.

As for Balak, I can't think of any rational reason to let him go. This guy was willing to wipe out 4 million humans and nearly succeeded. Yeah it's sad to lose the hostages, but this guy is just too dangerous and radical to not deal with him. Of course I always send him to the Alliance for interrogation, so he doesn't become a martyr.

[naledgeborn]

It's not about Cerberus. It's about the Reapers. Destroying the base is destroying insight into how to fight and defeat Cthulu.

I don't understand the need to make this a "political" or "ethical" debate when it isn't one.

[111987]

Luc0s wrote...

111987 wrote...

As for Balak, I can't think of any rational reason to let him go. This guy was willing to wipe out 4 million humans and nearly succeeded. Yeah it's sad to lose the hostages, but this guy is just too dangerous and radical to not deal with him. Of course I always send him to the Alliance for interrogation, so he doesn't become a martyr.

Wait you can actually do that? I always killed him. Must have missed that option. How do you send Balak to the Alliance?

yeah you just have to let the hostages die and then not shoot him. I believe it's a Paragon choice. You can either kill him outright, shoot him a couple times and let him bleed out, or send him to the Alliance.

I usually shoot him once for being an evil bastard, and then send him to the Alliance.

[AlexXIV]

Saphra Deden wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Saphra, you know how traps work? Traps usually don't have big signs warning you to get close because it could be dangerous.

You must see traps everywhere. Get help.

I told my therapist that the Reapers are comming, he told me to stop playing Mass Effect for a while. And you can see how well that worked, me being here, trying to convince everyone with my paranoia.

Shh. Can you hear them? They are watching. Always watching.

[Medhia Nox]

@AlexXIV - how do you know we're all not indoctrinated servants of the Reapers.

Run Alex.... RUN!