1667 réponses à ce sujet

[111987]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

It's not far-fetched.

Yes it is. What evidence is there that the rachni would ever be useful? What evidence is there that they would ever be the key to victory? What evidence is there that they could build up the required forces in anything less than several decades? Remember: they're starting with one queen here.

We don't know at the time when the Reapers will arrive. For all we know, it could take decades for them to arrive. Plus the Rachni are insects which typically reproduce faster than other forms of life. Going to the Listening Points would prove that they reproduce quickly as well, as hundreds were there in a manner of days.

Saphra Deden wrote...

111987 wrote...

That depends on your motivations. If you decide to save the Council to avoid having the Geth attack you from behind,

Oh for ****'s sake not this **** again.

That isn't my argument, actually, it's someone elses. But since you never refuted it, or my argument that you could save the Council to ensure the DA fights Sovereign, I thought I'd bring it up again

Why don't you try refuting my points once in a while, rather than just outright dismissing them? All that suggests to people is that you can't refute them, but are too stubborn and arrogant to

Modifié par 111987, 15 décembre 2011 - 06:49 .

[AlexXIV]

No point in running, they are everywhere and ... we don't have Shepard.

[Medhia Nox]

@AlexXIV: You'll have to do as a Shepard substitute... what's it gonna be... *PARAGON HUG* or *RENEGADE PUNCH*? C'mon Alex... which one? Time... is... running... out...

ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL

[AlexXIV]

Saphra Deden wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Well but we are social beings. You don't develop a conscience or ideology all on your own. Society teaches you. So in a way Shepard making this call is humanity making this call. Because they taught Shepard to have ideals.

That's some impressive mental gymnastics. You deserve a medal.

Yay! I take gold and I have a huge head. Just to avoid an awkward situation at the celebration.

[AlexXIV]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@AlexXIV: You'll have to do as a Shepard substitute... what's it gonna be... *PARAGON HUG* or *RENEGADE PUNCH*? C'mon Alex... which one? Time... is... running... out...

ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL

Nah you don't want my rl me to be Shepard. That wouldn't go well. Probably the world would go to hell while I am drunk in a bar drooling all over the Asari dancers.

[Medhia Nox]

Actually:

Save the Council = Stop Sovereign from achieving one of his goals.

One of his goals was to destabilize galactic government - it's how the Reapers sucker punched the Protheans and, we are told, all prior civilizations. Once the galactic government was gone - nothing could be organized throughout the empire.

We are presented with all this knowledge - in game.

[AlexXIV]

Saphra Deden wrote...

111987 wrote...

We don't know at the time when the Reapers will arrive. For all we know, it could take decades for them to arrive. Plus the Rachni are insects which typically reproduce faster than other forms of life.

Yeah I know and that's why it is a legitimate strategy depending on the context.

That isn't my argument, actually, it's someone elses.

I've read a million ****ing times. It is an argument built on assumptions and meta-knowledge. I'm more concerned with the choice as it is presented in-game

Save the Council = Nice but you'll be weaker vs Sovereign

Let them die = Mean but you'll be stronger vs Sovereign

Tbh there is another reason. My Shep thought he could get a chance to knock the Asari councilors boots at some point if he saved her. Now you can imagine what a letdown ME2 was for me in this regard.

[Medhia Nox]

@AlexXIV: Clearly... Renegade favoritism right there. You were denied content!

[Inquisitor Recon]

AlexXIV wrote...
Tbh there is another reason. My Shep thought he could get a chance to knock the Asari councilors boots at some point if he saved her. Now you can imagine what a letdown ME2 was for me in this regard.

I like your style. I was hoping she would be a bit more interested in Shepard's stimulus package after ME1.

[AlexXIV]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@AlexXIV: Clearly... Renegade favoritism right there. You were denied content!

Yeah and you don't see me complaining, do you? Well, a little maybe. There is still ME3 though.

[The Everchosen of Chaos]

So far I have two shepards that have completed both games. One keeps the base for TIM, The other doesn't give a rat's arse and blew it up.

I'm currently waiting to see what happens in Me 3 but I got too say when tim speaks to you after you've blown the base, I got chills from him. So very different to when you save the base, Man I could see in Tim eyes That he was going to kill me or die trying. Talk about a sore loser huh?

I reckon he decides to terminate as an afterthought if you save the base, you know as a 'loose end' sort of thing. But if you blow it up then damn its personal now. I just can't wait to talk to TIm in Me 3, gonna love his reaction.

Personally I'm more worried about re-written Geth than the Rachni. The Geth are far more powerful and numerous opponent than the Queen and her bugs. Though I hope i do hope I won't have to fight either, got enough on my plate with reapers and cerberus to deal with.

Modifié par The Everchosen of Chaos, 15 décembre 2011 - 07:10 .

[111987]

Saphra Deden wrote...

I've read a million ****ing times. It is an argument built on assumptions and meta-knowledge. I'm more concerned with the choice as it is presented in-game

Save the Council = Nice but you'll be weaker vs Sovereign

Let them die = Mean but you'll be stronger vs Sovereign

it doesn't rely on metagaming. The DA was said to be the strongest ship in the galaxy in a non-skippable cutscene ate the beginning of the game. You can choose to save it, or let it be destroyed.

Personally i'm gonna bank on the idea that the DA will be more useful against Sovereign than even a dozen extra frigates. Of course, the DA doesn't end up fighting Sovereign, but Shep doesn't know that at the time.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Of course it's not just the council, but also the 10000 crew members on the damn thing.

(Why you'd need 10000 crew members is entirely mysterious, however...)

[HiroVoid]

111987 wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

I've read a million ****ing times. It is an argument built on assumptions and meta-knowledge. I'm more concerned with the choice as it is presented in-game

Save the Council = Nice but you'll be weaker vs Sovereign

Let them die = Mean but you'll be stronger vs Sovereign

it doesn't rely on metagaming. The DA was said to be the strongest ship in the galaxy in a non-skippable cutscene ate the beginning of the game. You can choose to save it, or let it be destroyed.

Personally i'm gonna bank on the idea that the DA will be more useful against Sovereign than even a dozen extra frigates. Of course, the DA doesn't end up fighting Sovereign, but Shep doesn't know that at the time.

You don't have to meta-game to think about it, but like she said, that is how it's presented in-game at the time.  That's also how it goes down as well.  If you go paragon, you lose more of your forces to fight Sovereign.  If you focus on Sovereign, you have more forces after he's destroyed which shows that the geth were never a threat at the point.
So basically

Save the Council = Nice but you'll be weaker vs Sovereign

Let them die = Mean but you'll be stronger vs Sovereign

You can use your own reasons still which I'm fine with, but like I said, that's how the choice was depicted in-game, and that's how it played out.

[111987]

Luc0s wrote...

111987 wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

I've read a million ****ing times. It is an argument built on assumptions and meta-knowledge. I'm more concerned with the choice as it is presented in-game

Save the Council = Nice but you'll be weaker vs Sovereign

Let them die = Mean but you'll be stronger vs Sovereign

it doesn't rely on metagaming. The DA was said to be the strongest ship in the galaxy in a non-skippable cutscene ate the beginning of the game. You can choose to save it, or let it be destroyed.

Personally i'm gonna bank on the idea that the DA will be more useful against Sovereign than even a dozen extra frigates. Of course, the DA doesn't end up fighting Sovereign, but Shep doesn't know that at the time.

The DA is a heavy cruiser. Heavy cruisers are useless in close-combat. They're only useful in long-distance battles.

While the DA could be useful later in ME3, at that very moment, the ship was completely useless (which is why it tried to escape in the first place).

The DA is a dreadnaught, actually. And while its main gun might be useless, dreadnaughts have more than just one weapon. Alliance dreadnaughts have dozens of smaller cannons, and the DA is twice the size. Not to mention its shields could soak up a lot of fire from Sovereign.

[111987]

HiroVoid wrote...

111987 wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

I've read a million ****ing times. It is an argument built on assumptions and meta-knowledge. I'm more concerned with the choice as it is presented in-game

Save the Council = Nice but you'll be weaker vs Sovereign

Let them die = Mean but you'll be stronger vs Sovereign

it doesn't rely on metagaming. The DA was said to be the strongest ship in the galaxy in a non-skippable cutscene ate the beginning of the game. You can choose to save it, or let it be destroyed.

Personally i'm gonna bank on the idea that the DA will be more useful against Sovereign than even a dozen extra frigates. Of course, the DA doesn't end up fighting Sovereign, but Shep doesn't know that at the time.

You don't have to meta-game to think about it, but like she said, that is how it's presented in-game at the time.  That's also how it goes down as well.  If you go paragon, you lose more of your forces to fight Sovereign.  If you focus on Sovereign, you have more forces after he's destroyed which shows that the geth were never a threat at the point.
So basically

Save the Council = Nice but you'll be weaker vs Sovereign

Let them die = Mean but you'll be stronger vs Sovereign

You can use your own reasons still which I'm fine with, but like I said, that's how the choice was depicted in-game, and that's how it played out.

Yes, the game doesn't allow you to state all your motivations. For example, you can't save the Rachni because they'd be useful allies, but because Shepard won't commit genocide. You can't destroy the CB because you think it's a trap/could indoctrinate/whatever...but because you won't sacrifice the soul of our species, whatever the hell that means.

[HiroVoid]

111987 wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...

111987 wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

I've read a million ****ing times. It is an argument built on assumptions and meta-knowledge. I'm more concerned with the choice as it is presented in-game

Save the Council = Nice but you'll be weaker vs Sovereign

Let them die = Mean but you'll be stronger vs Sovereign

it doesn't rely on metagaming. The DA was said to be the strongest ship in the galaxy in a non-skippable cutscene ate the beginning of the game. You can choose to save it, or let it be destroyed.

Personally i'm gonna bank on the idea that the DA will be more useful against Sovereign than even a dozen extra frigates. Of course, the DA doesn't end up fighting Sovereign, but Shep doesn't know that at the time.

You don't have to meta-game to think about it, but like she said, that is how it's presented in-game at the time.  That's also how it goes down as well.  If you go paragon, you lose more of your forces to fight Sovereign.  If you focus on Sovereign, you have more forces after he's destroyed which shows that the geth were never a threat at the point.
So basically

Save the Council = Nice but you'll be weaker vs Sovereign

Let them die = Mean but you'll be stronger vs Sovereign

You can use your own reasons still which I'm fine with, but like I said, that's how the choice was depicted in-game, and that's how it played out.

Yes, the game doesn't allow you to state all your motivations. For example, you can't save the Rachni because they'd be useful allies, but because Shepard won't commit genocide. You can't destroy the CB because you think it's a trap/could indoctrinate/whatever...but because you won't sacrifice the soul of our species, whatever the hell that means.

Actually, if you use the renegade response after sparing the Rachni, Shepard states he's saving them because he think's they'll be useful allies.

[Killjoy Cutter]

111987 wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...

111987 wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

I've read a million ****ing times. It is an argument built on assumptions and meta-knowledge. I'm more concerned with the choice as it is presented in-game

Save the Council = Nice but you'll be weaker vs Sovereign

Let them die = Mean but you'll be stronger vs Sovereign

it doesn't rely on metagaming. The DA was said to be the strongest ship in the galaxy in a non-skippable cutscene ate the beginning of the game. You can choose to save it, or let it be destroyed.

Personally i'm gonna bank on the idea that the DA will be more useful against Sovereign than even a dozen extra frigates. Of course, the DA doesn't end up fighting Sovereign, but Shep doesn't know that at the time.

You don't have to meta-game to think about it, but like she said, that is how it's presented in-game at the time.  That's also how it goes down as well.  If you go paragon, you lose more of your forces to fight Sovereign.  If you focus on Sovereign, you have more forces after he's destroyed which shows that the geth were never a threat at the point.
So basically

Save the Council = Nice but you'll be weaker vs Sovereign

Let them die = Mean but you'll be stronger vs Sovereign

You can use your own reasons still which I'm fine with, but like I said, that's how the choice was depicted in-game, and that's how it played out.

Yes, the game doesn't allow you to state all your motivations. For example, you can't save the Rachni because they'd be useful allies, but because Shepard won't commit genocide. You can't destroy the CB because you think it's a trap/could indoctrinate/whatever...but because you won't sacrifice the soul of our species, whatever the hell that means.

My Sheps do what they do for the reasons I decide they do them, and not for any other reasons... I don't care what dialogue comes out of their mouths in the game.  If nothing else, the damn paraphrase system makes it a matter of guesswork. 

If I say one of my Sheps destroyed by base because it was too risky to allow a mistake-prone bunch of nuts like Cerberus have a giant base full of possible indoctrination risks and booby-traps and whatnot, then that's is exactly why that Shep destroyed the base, and that's the only reason that Shep destroyed that base.

[111987]

Luc0s wrote...

111987 wrote...

The DA is a dreadnaught, actually. And while its main gun might be useless, dreadnaughts have more than just one weapon. Alliance dreadnaughts have dozens of smaller cannons, and the DA is twice the size.

Dreathnaught, yeah, that's what I meant to say. Whatever. It's stilll useless in that very battle. If it has smaller cannons, why didn't the DA use it against the geth? I tell you why. Because it DOESN'T have "dozens of smaller cannons".

Not to mention its shields could soak up a lot of fire from Sovereign.

Yeah right. it couldn't even handle a couple of geth ships in close-combat. How is this piece of metal suppose to hold together against a motherf*cking reaper?

Yes, the DA would be useful at long-distance battles against the reapers. But at that very moment against Sov, it was completely useless.

Did you miss the part where I said the DA has more than just one gun? Just because they weren't shown doesn't mean they weren't there. I know that sounds stupid, but there are a lot of things not shown in that battle that should have been (ships firing guns other than disruptor torpedos, GARDIAN lasers, Sovereign's spinal-mounted cannon, the DA's main cannon, etc...).

We don't know how long the Geth had been attacking the DA; it could have been taking fire for several minutes for all we know. Regardless, its barriers are more powerful than anything else at that battle. The Reaper's Thanix Cannons can't one-shot a dreadnaught. It would likely take a couple of bursts before it was destroyed, but by that time it could have taken out Sovereign (with the help of the Alliance fleet, of course).

Who says it couldn't use its main gun anyways? In the Earth demo for ME3, an Alliance dreadnaught is firing it's main gun at a Reaper at close range.

Modifié par 111987, 15 décembre 2011 - 08:08 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

The engagement ranges mentioned for the vessel "weight classes" in ME is more about when they can start engaging and what they can engage with their largest weapons, not about where they have to engage.