1667 réponses à ce sujet

[InvincibleHero]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Sauce.

People may die but mission is a sucess. That is still a sucess.

Yeah, keep telling yourself that when you don't have anyone to handle the subjects you want researched because you seemed it a necessity to kill off the last group for some weak reason.

Scientists don't grow on trees, you know. And some of them are unique in their own ways. You can't just treat them like paper towels and expect to get just as good ones after each project. The quality will suffer sooner or later.

And no, I haven't been proven wrong. You just said I was wrong, but that's not proof of anything.

I don't think Illusive man would kill his operatives unecessarily. It costs resources and efficiency and people would know not to work for them. It would be bad for business.

They do their work in seclusion because it is dangerous to the extreme. Any one working on it likely knows that and has taken great pay against the risks. Now say you are developing a bioweapon that could destroy all life or a new tech warfare virus that will erase all technology  once it has broken containment, what would you do? Total base destructuction doesn't seem a bad idea right?

[sassyJacen]

Hmmm....How about shep telling the council to showe the "reinstatement" up the rear AND blowing up the base?
Then you`r royaly screwed.

[Someone With Mass]

InvincibleHero wrote...

I don't think Illusive man would kill his operatives unecessarily. It costs resources and efficiency and people would know not to work for them. It would be bad for business.

They do their work in seclusion because it is dangerous to the extreme. Any one working on it likely knows that and has taken great pay against the risks. Now say you are developing a bioweapon that could destroy all life or a new tech warfare virus that will erase all technology  once it has broken containment, what would you do? Total base destructuction doesn't seem a bad idea right?

Sure, once it's loose, then I'd do whatever necessary to stop it. 

It's the escape itself that I think needs reconsideration to prevent it from even happening in the first place. Because something like Wilson hacking the security system on the Lazarus station and effectively killing pretty much everyone shouldn't be possible in the first place. A guy like Wilson shouldn't even have been allowed access to that part of the station, since he belongs in the medical labs.

Not to mention that TIM should have started to see the pattern after a while.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Someone With Mass wrote...
Yeah, keep telling yourself that when you don't have anyone to handle the subjects you want researched because you seemed it a necessity to kill off the last group for some weak reason.

Scientists don't grow on trees, you know. And some of them are unique in their own ways. You can't just treat them like paper towels and expect to get just as good ones after each project. The quality will suffer sooner or later.

And no, I haven't been proven wrong. You just said I was wrong, but that's not proof of anything.

Some scientist die equals all sceintists die? I wonder what kind of messed up logic you are using.

And the population of the galaxy is in the trillions.  Loosing some scientist now and there is not an issue.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Someone With Mass wrote...
And no, I haven't been proven wrong. You just said I was wrong, but that's not proof of anything.

Yes, you have.
You're free to re-define sucess if you want, but no one cares about your definition.

Cerberus experiments have been mostly sucesses.

[Someone With Mass]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Yes, you have.
You're free to re-define sucess if you want, but no one cares about your definition.

Cerberus experiments have been mostly sucesses.

And I should give a rat's ass about your definition, because...?

[Lotion Soronarr]

Someone With Mass wrote...
It's the escape itself that I think needs reconsideration to prevent it from even happening in the first place. Because something like Wilson hacking the security system on the Lazarus station and effectively killing pretty much everyone shouldn't be possible in the first place. A guy like Wilson shouldn't even have been allowed access to that part of the station, since he belongs in the medical labs.

Not to mention that TIM should have started to see the pattern after a while.

Are we suddenly expectiong sense from ME2 plot????

[AlexXIV]

Someone With Mass wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

I'm pretty sure that the Citadel fleets would have opened fire on the geth on sight.

Sure they would, just like in the last battle. Just there would have been fewer probably and they would not be ready for the Geth. I doubt all ships are combat-ready all the time. The crews may have downtime, some ships may be in dock for mainteance, etc. I mean there is a reason why attacking an unspecting enemy is preferable. There will at least be confusion at first and until the admiraltly does have control of the situation the enemies may have ripped half way through the fleet. Especially considering that probably, without Shepard fighting Saren/Sovereign at the Citadel, the Alliance wouldn't have had a chance even in the last battle at the citadel, when they were there in force and battle-ready.

True, but Sovereign revealed itself during the attack on Eden Prime, so a surprise attack on the Citadel was probably out of the question when their movements were tracked.

Yep, which is why I think if they were smart they had taken the Citadel before that. They were on Eden Prime to find/destroy the beacon instead of hitting the Citadel. Once they open the citadel relay to the reapers in darkspace the beacon, cipher and condiut become useless because it is too late. So it looks like Saren's plan was to stall the reaper advance to give Shepard time to stop it. Which doesn't make much sense story-wise.

[AlexXIV]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Are we suddenly expectiong sense from ME2 plot????

Why else would be discussing parts of the me2 plot?

[Lotion Soronarr]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Yes, you have.
You're free to re-define sucess if you want, but no one cares about your definition.

Cerberus experiments have been mostly sucesses.

And I should give a rat's ass about your definition, because...?

For one, they are accurate.

[Someone With Mass]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Some scientist die equals all sceintists die? I wonder what kind of messed up logic you are using.

And the population of the galaxy is in the trillions.  Loosing some scientist now and there is not an issue.

I never said that one scientist dying = all of them dying.

How about the first damn mission in the game? Every scientist save for Miranda was killed. Teltin facility. We know Jack went on a murderous rampage throughout that place and killed the majority of the staff. Overlord. Archer and his brother were pretty much the only ones left. The derelict Reaper. Over a hundred scientists and doctors died because of indoctrination.

And you really fail to grasp my point, which I think you do on purpose for the sake of arguing.

Cerberus doesn't have unlimited researchers, doctors and scientists on their side. If they keep that up, they will eventually end up with nobody to run their projects. Also, scientists aren't clones. They will have different levels of knowledge and experience. If you lose someone with great understanding about your project, chances are that you won't be able to replace him/her completely.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 16 décembre 2011 - 01:19 .

[Someone With Mass]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
For one, they are accurate.

I have yet to see anyone else but yourself make such claims.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Actaully, a lot of the dead in all of those instances weren't only scientists. You got other staff -security, mantainance, etc..
Actual scientists are a handfull.

Also, hunders of husks on the reaper derelict are a gameplay thing. They keep spawning endlessly. So apprently, Cerbersu does have an endless supply of sceintists...

Or you're not gonna take everything you see in the game literaly, and realise that since the player needs things to shoot, you're always goan face hordes of enemies, regardless of much or little sense it makes.

[TMA LIVE]

You know, you're right Mass. Cerberus is killing off scientist like they were nothing. Either Cerberus is hiring bad researchers from the get go, or he's killing off the best money can buy, and then resulting in hiring lesser people.

[Chewin]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
For one, they are accurate.

I have yet to see anyone else but yourself make such claims.

Depens on how you see it.

IMHO, Cerberus experiments have been mostly successful, at least when it have come down to achiving their original goal, but have often messed up in the end, either by Shepard or by themselves.

[AlexXIV]

So I take it the 'researchers grow on trees' theory is off the table? Because I thought it could be a viable explaination for Cerberus getting the 'best' results despite their obvious inability to research anything without losing a good bunch of them.

[BlueMagitek]

Cerberus found Thedas and are using a Brood Mother to mass produce Darkspawn Scientists, so we all good.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

All the reasons to not trust Cerberus, not trust TIM, and not hand over the Collector Base, have been given over and over, and no matter what reason is given, the Cerberus fans will find a way to dismiss that reason and cling to it. "Oh that wasn't Cerberus" or "oh that branch had gone rogue" or "oh that's just the price of success" or...

And those reasons are garbage and not enough.

And thus you demonstrate my point for me.

Thank you.

[Medhia Nox]

@Lotion: Two things you've said recently.

You do realize there are people who 1) Don't think your definition of success is accurate. 2) Don't care what your personal definition of success is. Your comment is totally correct - but it applies to you as well.

As for your invoking "game sense" - so, what your saying is, my Shepard should not react to killing swaths of people in combat obstaclecourses - I should "realize it's a game". But I should roleplay when deciding to blow up something like the Collector base - and NOT use "game sense" to realize both options will be viable to achieve victory.

Which is it? And when should I use them? You really need to write a whole rulebook defining your personal logic.

===

@BlueMagiteck: Mind = blown.

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 16 décembre 2011 - 06:13 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@Lotion: Two things you've said recently.

You do realize there are people who 1) Don't think your definition of success is accurate. 2) Don't care what your personal definition of success is. Your comment is totally correct - but it applies to you as well.

I'm not using my personal definition. I'm using the textbook one.

As for your invoking "game sense" - so, what your saying is, my Shepard should not react to killing swaths of people in combat obstaclecourses - I should "realize it's a game". But I should roleplay when deciding to blow up something like the Collector base - and NOT use "game sense" to realize both options will be viable to achieve victory.

Which is it? And when should I use them? You really need to write a whole rulebook defining your personal logic.

I have no idea what the heck you just said there.
I cannot dictate to you how to play your game - metagame or don't. Have fun or don't.

Just don't tell me that choice X makes sense from a in-universe perspective when using out-of-universe justifications.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 16 décembre 2011 - 09:02 .

[AlexXIV]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

I have no idea what the heck you just said there.
I cannot dictate to you how to play your game - metagame or don't. Have fun or don't.

Well I won't act as if I know what you are up to. But the way you argue actually looks pretty much like that. That you want us to accept your truth(s). What you basically say then is 'You can play as you want but whoever doesn't do it my way is stupid'. And before you ask me to quote you saying this, no I can't, you didn't say that literally. But you are that relentless and adamant about everything you say that I can't stop wondering what the hell you are fighting for so hard.

Telling people they are stupid because they come to different conclusions doesn't help your case much. Because they would only accept it if they really are stupid. It's really fine to have OPINIONS, even different opinions. From playstyle to logic to morals. Yes, I and probably others are idealists, and we love if we get to make a choice that is morally and strategically paying off. That's how Bioware makes their games. I personally would prefer if it was more ambigious, that morally 'good' choices would not always lead to optimized results. But that's not how the story is written. You know that too.

So what are we really supposed to do? Tell Bioware their stories are too one-dimensional? I'd be the first to jump on that bandwagon with you or anyone. But if you really expect me or us to ignore the story for the sake of 'realism' that would suggest that the writers didn't do a good job and then somehow deal with the wrong choices ignoring most of the game ... that's asking a bit too much tbh.

The game reacts on our choices in a certain way. Bioware style. That's always on my mind when I make choices. And if the game considers destroying the base the morally better choice which still will work out in the end then I am going to choose it. Whether you consider it metagaming or not, the in-game reality does not always reflect what we would consider real life reality. And if you want your story to make sense in the game you will have to accept in-game reality as it is presented to us.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 16 décembre 2011 - 07:38 .

[Medhia Nox]

@Lotion - I cannot make allowances for your lack of understanding - otherwise, I would have to do so for everyone.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

All the reasons to not trust Cerberus, not trust TIM, and not hand over the Collector Base, have been given over and over, and no matter what reason is given, the Cerberus fans will find a way to dismiss that reason and cling to it. "Oh that wasn't Cerberus" or "oh that branch had gone rogue" or "oh that's just the price of success" or...

And those reasons are garbage and not enough.

And thus you demonstrate my point for me.

Thank you.

Am I now?

[BlueMagitek]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@BlueMagiteck: Mind = blown.

How else do we account for the abundance of scientists in Cerberus employ?  We know someone visited Thedas; there's a statue of an Ogre in Kasumi's DLC.  

If prominant human scientists were suddenly dropping off the grid (all the time, apparently), someone would notice.  What other explanation can they be?