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[RagingCyclone]

wow, while I was in SWTOR land this thread took off, Great!

TK---here is my profile

Name: RagingCyclone
Location of works: check my sig
Current ongoing project: Jacen Thorne: The Discovery
Favorite story I have written: coming from the collection of shorts in Dan and Alistair: Brothers in Arms I would have to say the short The Animal Side
Favorite story I have read: Still waiting on a juicy Dailana story

Modifié par RagingCyclone, 07 février 2012 - 08:26 .

[Sialater]

OK.. now, to break my own rules...

~leans back with her pint and stares up at the ceiling~

Writers, historically, or at least since the Industrial Age, or maybe even since the advent of radio and TV, seem to divide into two schools of thought. There are those where their words paint a picture and they choose each with painstaking precision and form and substances take precedence over plot.

There's another who, though their words and descriptions are no less carefully chosen, focus more on plot and the people moving around their plot more than the description of each physical sensation they experience. We'll call the diametric opposition.... Hemingway versus Steinbeck. Or... GRRM versus Asimov.

Hemingway trimmed everything out of his stories outside of the bare necessities. He wrote grittily and he wrote succinctly. Steinbeck's settings are, as someone has said in this thread, nearly characters in and of themselves as thoroughly as he describes the Dust Bowl. In A Song of Ice And Fire, GRRM's setting IS the main character. It shapes and molds his protagonists and antagonists far more than they themselves can see. In Asimov's novels, the descriptions and characters took second place to the plots and the ideas he was trying to convey via his stories.

Me? I like to think I blend them. But like SOLD said, there's a time and a place for description: while your character is running through a forest being chased by darkspawn, is probably not the best place to note the type and species of trees or how the light dapples on the forest floor. Unless those chiaroscuro shadows are hiding a tree limb or a hole in the ground that will trip your protagonist, don't mention them other than a brief note from the character's perspective. Such as: "Anders ran through the forest, leading the darkspawn to the Warden's trap. His eyesight was alternately blinded and eradicated by the shifting sunlight through the leaves overhead and he prayed to Andraste under his breath that he wouldn't find a hidden tree root to trip him up. Next time, Nathanial was going to be bait."

None of these styles are good or bad, superior or inferior.   They're all a matter of taste.

Modifié par Sialater, 07 février 2012 - 08:33 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Klidi wrote...

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Gaider's advice was specifically for short fiction, and he even had some caveats at the start--the prime one being breaking rules is fine so long as you break them with style.

Let's agree we disagree. I don't think that there is only one type of 'short fiction' for which this advice would be generally valid. There as as many genres and types of short fiction as there are of long fiction, so I find general advices about style of short fiction silly.

No, you are right there. But I don't think DG's advice was given with the intent of restricting creativity.

I haven't read all the entries for the competition, but if there were trends towards extra words that made sentencess cumbersome, or words so obscure and numerous that the story ground to a halt while a dictionary was used to translate it, I think that kind of general advice can be useful for budding writers at least.

And with that, I return to lurk mode.

[GarethJShep]

i have started wrighting, but i need some practice and maybe a teacher XD

[Sialater]

Ok... so what are you starting to write?

[tklivory]

RagingCyclone wrote...

wow, while I was in SWTOR land this thread took off, Great!

*glomps on Rage*  Stay around for a spell this time!  What does SWTOR have that we have, anyway?  *hmph*

RagingCyclone wrote... 
Favorite story I have read: Still waiting on a juicy Dailana story

Hmmm... riiiiight...

Let's see, bath scene (check), cheese and wine scene (check), hallway scene (check) - oh, that's right, i need to finish the actual bedroom scene, then the bed scene.  Got it.

[Maria13]

David Gaider's cheap tarts, that's us! [OK so perhaps I speak for myself here...]

Now what about us as writers tkl's confessed to being slightly AS, me never been diagnosed by my money's on slightly ADD. I have a big, BIG mouth in person as well as in places like this... Also pretty depressive.

Anyone else?

BTW mine's a full-bodied red.

[thesnowtigress]

Oh wow, I missed so much since last I lurked hah. On that note, I had been reading many of the entries for Asunder (I'm artemiskat on FF.net, I may have left a comment on your story *waves hello*), but I gave up now because I really need to get a new computer monitor... my poor eyes couldn't take reading off the screen anymore and putting on my rarely used reading glasses only made it worse ha. In any case, it was really interesting to see all the different things people came up with. I was impressed by the great majority of what I read. Good job everyone.

In regards to having things published, I did have two short stories published in two different anthologies when I was a teen. Nothing big or important. When I found the books a few months ago, I had so much fun laughing at the stories I wrote, my stomach hurt. First one was about zombies and the second one was about an evil old man who died and nobody went to his funeral! lol. I laugh just thinking about them. The things that come out of my head... sometimes I wonder... lol...

I wanted to ask, I'm finding it really hard to start writing again (I finished a very long story a month ago). I seem to lack motivation at the moment. What are some things people do to get started again? I have the ideas... just no will to start.

[Maria13]

thesnowtigress wrote...

I wanted to ask, I'm finding it really hard to start writing again (I finished a very long story a month ago). I seem to lack motivation at the moment. What are some things people do to get started again? I have the ideas... just no will to start.

Oh yeah, if someone's got an answer to that one... I really want to know.

Apparently Colette's husband used to shut her in her room until she produced the required amount of words.

[Tryynity]

Im on the fence with descriptive writing. Some do it really well, where other writers make me skip whole paragraphs just to get to the storyline again.

I have said it before The Lord of the Rings bored me, and I found CS Lewis's Screwtape Letters difficult to stay focused. Yet I cannot put down any Harry Potter book, Stephen King, Virginia Andrews, Anne McCaffery, & Jean Auel. Im not sure what that says about me as a reader LOL

I do think DG's comments should stay within the context of short story writing - especially if there is a word limit.  I particularly liked the picture he painted of Thesaurus abuse - it really got the message across to me that it can sometimes be overdone by a few.  I especially find it happens if the writer is intending to show off their genius, rather than compliment the story.  I have been guilty of this when trying to convince people I am smarter than my grammer and spelling lead you to believe hehehe  but really if Im honest I would rather write my story as it falls from my brain and have an editor make it look like someone older than a 6th grader wrote it. 

Thanks to feedback from reviewers   and my re-thinking on things, I have now realised I wasted at least 1 maybe 2 paragraphs of my Asunder fiction and could have spent those better involving the reader with the character more.

Modifié par Tryynity, 07 février 2012 - 11:04 .

[Sialater]

I'm setting a goal date and sticking with it. I had a minor break down right before Christmas since I finished my first novel and am now facing the rewrite stage. And then I caught the cold from hell. It seriously lasted all of January.

So, after delaying to go out of town last weekend, this Friday night is PMAICAW-Day.

[Maria13]

The opposite of the caring, cautious critique: www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/feb/07/michael-cunningham-review-hatchet-job

[Tryynity]

Maria13 wrote...

The opposite of the caring, cautious critique: www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/feb/07/michael-cunningham-review-hatchet-job

Interesting article but I do not particularly like nor believe professional critics - especially if employed by a magazine/newspaper - the same for food critics etc  so I rarely pay any attention to what they have to say.

I would rather listen to general opinion and then employ my own judgement whether or not to try something.

e.g.  I detest shooters and really dont usually go for Sci Fi and loathed consoles - yet all my friends raved about Mass Effect and I bought a copy for my son and myself to play on his XBox360 purely because of their raving.

I then tried out Dragon Age Origins based on discovering the RPG side of gaming from ME

I nearly did not bother with DA2 because of general opinion but fell in love with Fenris through Fan Fiction and then went and bought the game - actually our household has 2 copies - one for comp and other for XBox360 because my son refuses to play computer for these types of games and I wanted computer in case I wanted to use mods LOL

Modifié par Tryynity, 07 février 2012 - 11:27 .

[RagingCyclone]

TK...the stories in that game are surprisingly well done. Each type of character has a different story and each arcs over three chapters. There are some pleasant twistss (and some not so pleasant...like having to actually fight my LI)...I haven't had this much fun in a game since Origins. But I am still working on my writing. I had to figure a little on this upcoming death scene. The part for the man is not so tough...but his wife's reaction has been tougher to nail down.

[The Sarendoctrinator]

Corker wrote...

Generalizing to a potentially useless extent, I'm slowly converging on taking "Be interesting" as the best advice.

I agree with this. Aside from the obvious things like using correct grammar and spelling, everything else about style is pretty much a matter of taste. But getting the reader interested is always important.

Sialater wrote...

Writers, historically, or at least since the Industrial Age, or maybe even since the advent of radio and TV, seem to divide into two schools of thought. There are those where their words paint a picture and they choose each with painstaking precision and form and substances take precedence over plot.

There's another who, though their words and descriptions are no less carefully chosen, focus more on plot and the people moving around their plot more than the description of each physical sensation they experience. We'll call the diametric opposition.... Hemingway versus Steinbeck. Or... GRRM versus Asimov.

I always go for a combination of these two as well. Characters and plot are the main focus, but because I want the readers to know these characters so well, a lot of time is taken to describe their feelings and personal conflicts. There are times when I can take forever trying to find the perfect word for every situation, perfect sentence structure and word flow, and it's because my characters are so important to the story. It's a big deal for me that the reader would never have to guess what my characters are feeling, and to easily picture every move they make in battle so no one is confused.

It's funny, and maybe this is because I've never really had any "formal" training/education for writing, but my own style just sort of came to be. I used to read a lot when I was younger, and I guess my writing partly developed from what I wanted to see in books. There were a lot of characters I wanted to know more about, to see into their minds, and that's what I do with my own characters. I've read a lot of battle scenes that made me stop and think about what the characters were doing in order to get a clear mental picture. I don't want readers to be taken out of the action like that, so I really try to make sure that my battle scenes flow well.

thesnowtigress wrote...

I wanted to ask, I'm finding it really hard to start writing again (I finished a very long story a month ago). I seem to lack motivation at the moment. What are some things people do to get started again? I have the ideas... just no will to start.

I have the same problem, and I think that in my case, a lot of it comes from feeling like "I have to get this finished as fast as I can" instead of "I want to work on this now." Ideas come naturally to me. It's deadlines that can take the fun out of writing for me. (I don't have an official deadline. It's just, as I said, finish it much faster than I have been.)

I got some advice here to try sticking with a schedule, force myself to write, and eventually, it would start to come easier. It was working great, but then I had one day where I wasn't feeling well and, no matter how long I tried to come up with something, it was never going to happen. You know, one of those days where trying to concentrate at all was just starting to get frustrating. xD Sometimes, it just helps to know that other writers are going through the same thing.

[Merilsell]

*comes out of lurking*

OMG a David Gaider tweet about this thread! *squee*

*goes back to lurking*

EDIT: Sorry for the absence lately, but I'm very much busy with Lenya and my story atm. WANT TO GET TO THE REUNION SCENE! [/capsrape]  (Everyone reading my story knows what that means. And tklvory as my beta in particular. Heh.)

Modifié par Merilsell, 08 février 2012 - 12:52 .

[Corker]

thesnowtigress wrote...
I wanted to ask, I'm finding it really hard to start writing again (I finished a very long story a month ago). I seem to lack motivation at the moment. What are some things people do to get started again? I have the ideas... just no will to start.

A break can be good.  I gave myself permission not to update anything during the December holidays and it was lovely.

After I finish a long work (which for me is 20-30K; I know that's peanuts for some of y'all) sometimes I like to do a bunch of short, light prompts.  It helps air out some of the ideas that have been on hold because of the big story, doesn't feel so Very Terribly Important, and is just messing around for fun.  Also, I get a sense of accomplishment and completion (and hopefully reviews!) after just a few nights of work instead of months.  

Once I get that out of my system, I'm ready to head on to the next novella.  Assuming I don't get stuck on the second chapter for four months. >.<

[Mahati]

I wanted to thank those who read my story and commented too I really appreciate constructive criticism.

@thesnowtigress: I think a break can be good as well. Don't get frustrated, though xD I take a break too, once in a while. Helps me relax, and focus. Usually, the motivation to write just comes back then.

[tklivory]

All right, I've updated the front page post with the newest bios.  Again, If I missed anyone, shoot me a PM!

Aaand, another nag to send me PM's of writing article links for future weeks. 

Firky wrote...

Hi writerinos.

Popping in from Asunder discussion too. The comp has given me a kick in the pants. I've had several bits of modded content for the Origins toolset under construction and, dammit, I'm determined to actually finish one. Just one, probably.

I'm trying to devise a different system for player dialogue which doesn't deal with personality, because it seems to suit the content of the tiny mod better, but I'll probably come back to get feedback at a later stage. We're writers but we're gamers too, right?

On music. I taught composition to HS students for 6 years, amoung the other musical bits. The great thing about writing music is that you have to follow very strict rules, until you get the hang of it. Then the real creativity follows and there is much beauty to be found in breaking the rules. But I tended to find that you need fundamentals first. I'm approaching writing the same way. Fundamentals first.

And on flow, I'm surprised no-one's mentioned segway/segue. I can't write paragraphs that don't segue. And, also, chapters. Like, I really love a whole chapter that ends on something like, "Of course, that's when things for our hero got worse." Can't put the bloody book down then, right?

*Fistbump* for a fellow composer/musician!  Although I never taught composition, I did teach music, both to groups and to individuals, for many years, and I'm valiantly trying to resume writing my album of Dragon Age songs (*weeps for interrupted Minstrels of Thedas project*)

And I got a giggle from the segway: i pictured a bunch of writers on the bloody things, going over a cliff chanting, "It doesn't floooooow!"  (yes i have a strange mind, hush) 

*ahem* 

I do like trying to make the scenes and chapters segue whenever possible.  There are times when I deliberately *don't* do it, too, for narrative flow.  I don't always do it as successfully as I would like, but I know what you mean when: take advantage of the flow of words to make people want to turn to the next page and read the next chapter.

Then there's the Terry Pratchett approach: don't have chapters at all.  And then write really, really well.  And then make the reader blearily look at their clock at 2AM and wonder why they didn't stop reading earlier. 

Modifié par tklivory, 08 février 2012 - 04:35 .

[wangxiuming]

Thanks tklivory for your diligence! =)

[Firky]

tklivory wrote...

*Fistbump* for a fellow composer/musician!  Although I never taught composition, I did teach music, both to groups and to individuals, for many years, and I'm valiantly trying to resume writing my album of Dragon Age songs (*weeps for interrupted Minstrels of Thedas project*)

And I got a giggle from the segway: i pictured a bunch of writers on the bloody things, going over a cliff chanting, "It doesn't floooooow!"  (yes i have a strange mind, hush) 

*ahem* 

I do like trying to make the scenes and chapters segue whenever possible.  There are times when I deliberately *don't* do it, too, for narrative flow.  I don't always do it as successfully as I would like, but I know what you mean when: take advantage of the flow of words to make people want to turn to the next page and read the next chapter.

I miss teaching music. Original dragon age related songs? That sounds interesting. I'm currently trying to get a good recording of Ultima's Stones on guitar. I love Stones.

They have a bush segway riding class at our local oval. It's nuts. The riders even wear helmets.

I got into the habit of writing seguing paragraphs for a magazine editor that liked that. Now I can't not. I guess you could probably suddenly stop seguing and start your next paragraph with real impact. If you did it occasionally. Like I said, I like following the rules.

I think I mentioned The Book Thief by Marcus Zusak in the other thread. That was the kind of book that dropped a bombshell, sometimes literally, at the end of every chapter. Such a good book.

Here's a question, if anyone's up for it. Don't worry if not. I'm just thinking aloud, probably. You know the olive branch/mask/fist/question mark (with variations) dialogue options in DA2? When were the times when they worked against the narrative, do you think?

I thought they were OK, for the most part, but there were some notable moments when I strongly wanted a different system. The Magistrates Orders quest was one. Also, in dealing with the qunari. Like, the times when a stronger stance of assent/dissent was required.

Any ideas gratefully accepted.