973 réponses à ce sujet

[The Sarendoctrinator]

Bethadots wrote...

Everyone's gone quiet... what are we all working on?

I'm still working on my novel... and should be working on it right now, actually. ^^;

Corker wrote...

1. There's a lot of violent emotion, which isn't a strong point of mine. Worse, despite the circumstances, several of the characters really really want to ask some questions. Which plops an infodump in about the worst tonal place.

The scene I'm trying to finish now has a lot of violent emotion too. It is one of my stronger points though, because I write in that sort of tone a lot. My poor characters, always violent or desperate. I don't think I've ever run into the problem of needing an info-dump during one of the violent scenes. I guess my guys often attack first and ask questions later.

Robin D. Laws wrote...
Longtime readers have already seen me rattle on about the difference between iconic and dramatic heroes. A dramatic hero follows a character arc in which he is changed by his experience of the world. Examples: Orpheus, King Lear, Ben Braddock. An iconic hero undertakes tasks (often serially) and changes the world, restoring order to it, by remaining true to his essential self. Examples: Beowulf, Sherlock Holmes, Batman.

So what would my character be, if he is changed by the world while still staying true to his most valued principles, and also ends up changing the world through his actions? ...A dramatic icon? xD

[Mahati]

Bethadots wrote...

Everyone's gone quiet... what are we all working on?

I've had a lot of writing assignments the past few weeks...also sold a short story to a literary magazine, so I'm working with an editor...

@The Sarendoctrinator: Re your novel, any publishers in mind? 

Modifié par Mahati, 26 février 2012 - 03:34 .

[The Sarendoctrinator]

Mahati wrote...

@The Sarendoctrinator: Re your novel, any publishers in mind? 

Yeah, I checked out a lot of self-publishers and found one that I'll probably go with. I decided quite some time ago to look at self-publishers because of the long waiting times with traditional publishers and the fact that they often want authors to make changes. When I'm done, that's it, it's done - and needs to get out fast.

[Mahati]

I agree, making changes is absolutely painful! I don't know what to think when entire sentences are simply deleted. Or changed in a way that the original intention is lost. Ugh. And they think writing is easy.

When someone else edits your writing, I mean

Modifié par Mahati, 26 février 2012 - 04:00 .

[The Sarendoctrinator]

That's exactly why I don't like the idea of others editing an author's writing, because the original intent can be lost.

I can understand having someone to read it over to make sure there are no typos or grammar errors (although this is something I've always preferred to do myself). After that point, it all comes down to writing style, and it would just be a huge disservice to the author's work if the editor tried to change style. People have different preferences about that sort of thing, and no one style is more "right" than another.

[Firky]

I write short, regular articles for a monthly magazine and I love my editor. He always knows when to contact me if he's changing something I'll care about and when to just change it, because it's not a big deal. He has also removed some stuff which, in retrospect, might have been taken wrong or offensively. He's highly sensitive to that stuff. It takes time and getting to know each other.

For something big, like a novel. I dunno. Editors change stuff for good reasons. Ask? Negotiate? (I wish I had that experience. I'd love to publish a novel.)

As to what we are working on. I am so freaking determined to finish my mini-standalone mod for Origins. What I'm currently grappling with is whether a Templar would be able to sense someone performing magic in front of them in a very subtle way. Any lore advice?

[Mahati]

An editor once told me it's hard to work with creative writers because they wouldn't allow anything to be changed! 

But yes, I agree that sometimes they do know best. A writer is often too close to her work to be very objective, and while massive changes and the dreaded changing of the original *intent* are serious for me, I try (as far as possible) to negotiate. Editing just for editing's sake is a big problem though. As in an article was sent to back to me for verification, and I noticed that the editor had added some lines to a quotation. That was problematic, because the interviewee never said that. 

Fortunately, things like than happen very rarely 

Modifié par Mahati, 26 février 2012 - 10:55 .

[BrennaCeDria]

Tryynity wrote...

What I meant was :- Someone buys it on Kindle, loves it (I live in hope LOL) and then shares it with 10 friends = Neg $30 in sales.

As opposed to :- Someone buys it on Kindle, loves it and tells 10 friends who have to buy it because she cannot share it (there is some kind of locking feature I dont understand yet) = + $30 in sales.

It also stops them copy and paste, taking images etc - so it protects the entire piece of work.

If no-one knows, I can ask my programmer brother who is usually up on all latest software and programming, but I prefer not to because I rarely understand his answers LOL its all tech lingo and my brain implodes.


I also like info from people that already use a product - I will start to research Calibre at least that is another lead.

It doesnt have to be free btw - just right now free is good for me, I am happy to pay once the funds are available and I am sure I am going to use it. First on the list is video/music editing software.

Edit
Acrobat 9 is $499 US I think and does all that.

Calibre looked good too except I couldnt watch the video images for some reason, but I could listen and see bits.
It looks like its free unless you wish to donate which is kinda awesome

I've only played with Calibre a little bit, but I'm assuming it has a DRM option just like Mobipocket does. I've had better luck formatting things with Mobipocket, but it only seems to do Kindle-compatible files--if you want to branch to Nook format as well, you'll need Calibre instead to make epubs.

Edit: And yeah, I've been working on Warden's Duty as consistently as possible, but real life is getting in the way of both writing and lots of online time right now.

Modifié par BrennaCeDria, 26 février 2012 - 04:01 .

[Tryynity]

BrennaCeDria wrote...

Tryynity wrote...

What I meant was :- Someone buys it on Kindle, loves it (I live in hope LOL) and then shares it with 10 friends = Neg $30 in sales.

As opposed to :- Someone buys it on Kindle, loves it and tells 10 friends who have to buy it because she cannot share it (there is some kind of locking feature I dont understand yet) = + $30 in sales.

It also stops them copy and paste, taking images etc - so it protects the entire piece of work.

If no-one knows, I can ask my programmer brother who is usually up on all latest software and programming, but I prefer not to because I rarely understand his answers LOL its all tech lingo and my brain implodes.


I also like info from people that already use a product - I will start to research Calibre at least that is another lead.

It doesnt have to be free btw - just right now free is good for me, I am happy to pay once the funds are available and I am sure I am going to use it. First on the list is video/music editing software.

Edit
Acrobat 9 is $499 US I think and does all that.

Calibre looked good too except I couldnt watch the video images for some reason, but I could listen and see bits.
It looks like its free unless you wish to donate which is kinda awesome

.......  but I'm assuming it has a DRM option just like Mobipocket does...... 
.......  if you want to branch to Nook format as well, you'll need Calibre instead to make epubs.

What is DRM?

What is Nook format?

Modifié par Tryynity, 26 février 2012 - 08:54 .

[BrennaCeDria]

Tryynity wrote...

BrennaCeDria wrote...

Tryynity wrote...

What I meant was :- Someone buys it on Kindle, loves it (I live in hope LOL) and then shares it with 10 friends = Neg $30 in sales.

As opposed to :- Someone buys it on Kindle, loves it and tells 10 friends who have to buy it because she cannot share it (there is some kind of locking feature I dont understand yet) = + $30 in sales.

It also stops them copy and paste, taking images etc - so it protects the entire piece of work.

If no-one knows, I can ask my programmer brother who is usually up on all latest software and programming, but I prefer not to because I rarely understand his answers LOL its all tech lingo and my brain implodes.


I also like info from people that already use a product - I will start to research Calibre at least that is another lead.

It doesnt have to be free btw - just right now free is good for me, I am happy to pay once the funds are available and I am sure I am going to use it. First on the list is video/music editing software.

Edit
Acrobat 9 is $499 US I think and does all that.

Calibre looked good too except I couldnt watch the video images for some reason, but I could listen and see bits.
It looks like its free unless you wish to donate which is kinda awesome

.......  but I'm assuming it has a DRM option just like Mobipocket does...... 
.......  if you want to branch to Nook format as well, you'll need Calibre instead to make epubs.

What is DRM?

What is Nook format?

I wouldn't know about that Nook thing, I only use Kindle. But supposedly .epub is what you need a file to be to read it on a Nook if one were going to distribute that way. And DRM is a mythical power that publishers of all sorts of media employ to keep users from copying their prized media.

[tklivory]

 Greetings, my fellow Writers!  (although I haven't posted anything in so long due to RL, I wonder if I can claim that myself anymore... Hmph.)

Anyway, just wanted to post all the new stuff since it's Sunday, and that means a new article and a new concritter!

New article for discussion: 

Holly Lisle's Deeper People: Putting Yourself Into Your Characters (submitted by Klidi - thank you!)

List of previously discussed articles can be found here.


New sacrificial lamb concritter:
Kildi's Ignis Internum - An editable Google Doc has been created for comments here.  You may also PM Klidi on BSN with a comment.

List of previous concritters can be found here.


And, as always, please send me suggestions for future articles! I love the responses we're getting on the concritters, so it seems the Google Docs format is working!

Modifié par tklivory, 26 février 2012 - 10:45 .

[Corker]

tklivory wrote...

New article for discussion: 

Holly Lisle's Deeper People: Putting Yourself Into Your Characters (submitted by Klidi - thank you!)

...I think I come from a different emotional planet than this person.    Or I'm either terribly shallow or have had an empty life, dealer's choice.

[thesnowtigress]

A quick question: Do chevaliers have a title, (for example, Ser Laflamme)?

I cannot remember this from the books or Mark of the Assassin, if this was mentioned there. Or if Aveline ever mentioned it.

While this subject is out there, what is the difference between serah and messere (not sure if I am spelling them right, so sorry if I'm not)?

[thesnowtigress]

Corker wrote...

tklivory wrote...

New article for discussion: 

Holly Lisle's Deeper People: Putting Yourself Into Your Characters (submitted by Klidi - thank you!)

...I think I come from a different emotional planet than this person.    Or I'm either terribly shallow or have had an empty life, dealer's choice.

Same here.

I can't think of a lot of things that she asks us to. Granted, I've only thought about it for about 5 minutes... maybe I'll take more time and acually write the things down later.

I think I already put parts of me and my life in all my characters. Though, I thought that was bad to do? As in, putting yourself into the story is Mary Sue-ish, although this woman tells you to change things up, obviously.

Anyway, it is hard to create well rounded characters who don't come out as cliches. This was a helpful read. Thanks Klidi.

[maxernst]

thesnowtigress wrote...

Corker wrote...

tklivory wrote...

New article for discussion: 

Holly Lisle's Deeper People: Putting Yourself Into Your Characters (submitted by Klidi - thank you!)

...I think I come from a different emotional planet than this person.    Or I'm either terribly shallow or have had an empty life, dealer's choice.

Same here.

I can't think of a lot of things that she asks us to. Granted, I've only thought about it for about 5 minutes... maybe I'll take more time and acually write the things down later.

I think I already put parts of me and my life in all my characters. Though, I thought that was bad to do? As in, putting yourself into the story is Mary Sue-ish, although this woman tells you to change things up, obviously.

Anyway, it is hard to create well rounded characters who don't come out as cliches. This was a helpful read. Thanks Klidi.

Well, certainly many actors talk about having to find the character in themselves and the standard advice to writers is to write about what you know and your own experiences.  But I've always struggled with that, because my own experiences are lacking in much drama.  I remember when I watched the film "Runaway Jury", one of the characters claimed that everybody had secrets that they would do almost anything to prevent being revealed and I tried to think of what somebody could possibly dig up on me.  It's not that I'm a saint, or that I haven't done things that I'm ashamed of or embarrassed by, but in the greater scheme of things, my "dark secrets" are trivial.

That said, there's certainly plenty of me in my Aedan Cousland, but it's more my imagining how I might react to his life experiences than based on my own personal experiences.  I think it's true that in order to write a convincing character, you have to be able to think like the character.  I just don't find that I can pull that directly out of my own life readily.

Modifié par maxernst, 27 février 2012 - 05:42 .

[Tryynity]

I guess I can be thankful now for my colourful life - that was a great read for character development - my favourite part of writing. Thanks Klidi

[Klidi]

She uses extreme examples, yes, but that doesn't make her point less valid. Everyone had some bad experiences, or have things he doesn't want others to know. They may not be as dramatic as what she mentions, but they are there.

For example, I think all of us know what it feels like if someone cheats on you - maybe not a partner, but a friend in school, or family or a colleague - that lied to us or did something that hurt. Maybe it's something that seems trivial NOW, but back then when it happened, it wasn't. And we all know how it feels, the disappointment, feeling of betrayal, etc.

So when writing a character - e.g. Alistair at the Landsmeet when Warden spares Loghain - we cab make Alistair more realistic by transforming the similar experience we had into his own. The more concrete little details we can smuggle into it, the more 'real' Alistair will be. But for that, we need to be aware of those details - and there's when Lisle's advice may be useful.

That's how I understood her advice, and I can confirm it works.

[wangxiuming]

Yeah, I thought that article was a great read! It's an interesting twist on the old saying "write what you know." Except instead of writing about your job, or a biography, or a subject matter you're familiar with, you're actually writing about personal events you've experienced and injecting them into your characters. Sounds like a great way to bring them to life, I'll definitely try this exercise.

[Tryynity]

I had to laugh at the author's example of cheating. My first boyfriend cheated on me with another guy  ... to be honest I didnt know what to feel at the time and I think I just chose denial LOL

So for me it wasnt extreme

Modifié par Tryynity, 27 février 2012 - 07:26 .

[The Sarendoctrinator]

That's a really interesting article. I think I'll end up reading some of the others on her site too.

While there are some things I really disagree with, I can understand the main point of this. Most people probably put a bit of their own experiences into their character without even realizing it, because these things can be as simple as describing what happiness feels like, or a terrible headache. It's not always a good idea to put too much of yourself into the character, but emotions and physical feelings in particular are great things to draw from. The headache thing was not at all hard for me to describe when a character of mine had one. The things my characters have to go through are much more extreme, and therefore the emotions are more extreme, but I think all of us would know some degree of happiness, sadness, and anger to describe it so well.

The part that I completely agree with is this:

Holly Lisle wrote...

Real people have interests both broad and deep, friends and enemies from as far back as when they were two years old, hobbies that have absolutely nothing to do with their current Quest for the Silver Nematode, and the occasional pet, favorite book, and favorite song.
 
More than anything else, living characters have passions, hungers and desires, and they aren't all related to the story of the moment.

My characters are all like this. It's just the kind of thing I think about, even for those I created to play as Shepard/Hawke/the Warden. It makes them human.

Also, I just have to point this out because it reminded me of my favorite TV show:

Holly Lisle wrote...

Lets say that one of the really tough-to-deal-with moments in your life came when you caught your girlfriend of five years cheating on you with her girlfriend. Ouch. You aren’t going to get over that one any time soon.

I was watching Boardwalk Empire (so many deep characters there) right before I read this, and it made me think of Jimmy. It's just... so... accurate. xD

[Corker]

thesnowtigress wrote...

A quick question: Do chevaliers have a title, (for example, Ser Laflamme)?

The codex entry for the original, raised-by-Dalish Aveline is, IIRC, "Ser Aveline, Knight of Orlais."  I've always assumed chevaliers use "ser" as an honorific.

While this subject is out there, what is the difference between serah and messere (not sure if I am spelling them right, so sorry if I'm not)?

I believe I saw a writer explain somewhere in the DA2 forums that "serah" is used between equals or with an inferior who nonetheless deserves respect, and "messere" is used with a superior.  So in Act 2, Bodhan Feddic will call Hawke "messere," but Seneschal Bran will only deign to use "Serah Hawke."

I admit I was confused for some time, because there's an archaic English word "sirrah," which is an insult.  As a lowlife in Act 1, I didn't mind getting "sirrah"ed all over the place (although I was confused when it sometimes came from people I'd just helped).  Then it persisted into Act 2, and I was all WTF?  Then I either turned the captions on or read the dev quote and all was made clear.  XD

[thesnowtigress]

Corker wrote...

thesnowtigress wrote...

A quick question: Do chevaliers have a title, (for example, Ser Laflamme)?

The codex entry for the original, raised-by-Dalish Aveline is, IIRC, "Ser Aveline, Knight of Orlais."  I've always assumed chevaliers use "ser" as an honorific.

While this subject is out there, what is the difference between serah and messere (not sure if I am spelling them right, so sorry if I'm not)?

I believe I saw a writer explain somewhere in the DA2 forums that "serah" is used between equals or with an inferior who nonetheless deserves respect, and "messere" is used with a superior.  So in Act 2, Bodhan Feddic will call Hawke "messere," but Seneschal Bran will only deign to use "Serah Hawke."

I admit I was confused for some time, because there's an archaic English word "sirrah," which is an insult.  As a lowlife in Act 1, I didn't mind getting "sirrah"ed all over the place (although I was confused when it sometimes came from people I'd just helped).  Then it persisted into Act 2, and I was all WTF?  Then I either turned the captions on or read the dev quote and all was made clear.  XD

Thanks.
 
I didn't know Aveline was originally meant to have been raised by the Dalish. Interesting...

I guess those "serah" and "messere" distinctions make sense. "Messere" is close to "monsieur" which directly translated from French means "my lord". "Serah" does sound a bit insulting lol, but I didn't know there was an archaic English word close to it that was actually an insult. Learn something new every day lol.

[Corker]

Yep! I was so happy when "The Shield of the Knight Herself" was a Dalish design in DA2.

Here is the DAO codex on Ser Aveline. It doesn't have a 'ser' in the title, as I thought it did, but she is referred to as 'Ser Aveline' by the author towards the end.

[thesnowtigress]

Right, now I remember hearing that story from Leliana. That would make an interesting story to flesh out. And I never noticed the shield had a Dalish design. I need to be more observant, lol. Thanks for that link, Corker.

I misread your post the first time though and thought Aveline Vallen was raised by the Dalish lol. It was her namesake, got it. heh.

[Corker]

thesnowtigress wrote...
That would make an interesting story to flesh out.

Why, yes.  Yes, it would.