973 réponses à ce sujet

[DreGregoire]

@Corker. You could just start with your Hawke's thoughts on the conversation without repeating the actual dialog. A bit of an internal dialog that may even fuel the to come confrontation.

Modifié par DreGregoire, 09 mars 2012 - 07:27 .

[Sialater]

Corker wrote...

Question on in-game dialogue for y'all:

I'm writing a chapter that includes a Hawke/Meredith throwdown, right at the place 'The Last Straw' would start in canon.  I'm even considering opening the scene with the Meredith/Orsino argument that Hawke walks in on, just before boom-time.

Do I go transcribe the original dialogue?  Paraphrase it?  Substitute something entirely different?  (The whole world is going AU within minutes of this, so a little discontinuity isn't such a big issue.)  Use the original, but elaborate on it?

I sort of hate to parrot the original dialogue, but I also hate to just ignore it.

Add in your own around it.  I treat the in-game dialogs as summaries, really.  And add in what my character is actually trying to say around it.

[Merilsell]

AmbraAlhambra wrote...
As someone else said: I treat in-game dialogue as a summary of the direction and flow of the conversation but I try to avoid rewriting it exactly as it's said in game. Generally when I'm reading fanfic, my eyes skim over large parts of dialogue taken word-for-word from the game - personal taste for me but I would much rather read dialogue that has been rewritten based on game dialogue but not taken word for word.

Same here. Though sometimes I'm feeling lazy and take the in-game dialogue because I can't think of a better, more fitting one. Still this is the exception than the rule in my story. Often I thread in game dialogue and make it to my own through paraphrasing/ or completely new one as others have said here.

[Klidi]

I use dialouge lines, sometimes - if they're so good that any big change would be for worse. But then I add other things. Sometimes I give lines to different person, or in different situation, or I change the outcome. This is, for example, my take on Zev offering Warden 'a massage'.

"I'm so tired." Airam threw himself on the bed. "I'm really glad this is the last treaty. All this walking and fighting is getting on my nerves. "
"I might know something that could help," he suggested.
"Hm? An extra strong sleeping potion?"
"No, that is Wynne's area. My solution is... more pleasurable."
"What is it, then?"
"I was thinking of a massage," he said lightly, trying to sound confident. Truth was he had never been that nervous. "An Antivan massage, more precisely."
"An Antivan massage?" Airam sat up and looked at him suspiciously. "What kind of massage is that?"
"The kind one only learns growing up in an Antivan ****house," he explained with smile and immediately saw Airam tense. "You do not have to worry. I'm sure the techniques I picked over the years will please you."
"Zev. Are you saying what I think you're saying?"
The boy got up and came closer to him. He seemed to be a bit nervous and perhaps even scared, but that was understandable, and it would soon dissolve into pleasure. Or so he thought.
"Answer me, Zevran, Maker damn you. That massage – you're offering yourself for sex with me?"
"Why that worried face? You deserve some fun –"
Airam hit him. Punched him right in the nose. Well now... that definitely wasn't how he imagined this.

It is the same, and it is not. And I think it works.

Modifié par Klidi, 11 mars 2012 - 09:02 .

[Merilsell]

Ah yes, I like to morph and weave game dialogue in my story as well. I just made that with Alistair's lamppost discussion xD :


-------

[...]“Aww. So you...never licked a lamppost in Winter?” Alistair tilted his head, eyebrow and corner of his mouth quirked up in good humor. “Good, I hear it is quite painful.”

Lenya gaped at him as if he had grown a second head. “What, by the creators, is a...lamppost? And what has it to do with whatever you are saying? You are frustrating with your inane human terms.”

“Sorry.” He laughed. “Sometimes it is so easy to forget you never have been in a city before.” Lampposts are – as the name implies – devices that provide light in the night within a city and –“

“Still confused. Why should I lick one? Ugh. That makes no sense.”

“No I meant –“ He sighed, one erratic hand driven through his hair and a blush forming itself on his cheeks. “Well, I for myself, never had the pleasure. Not that I didn't think about...it, but being raised in the Chantry isn't exactly the wild way of growing up. “ Lenya's eyebrows rose higher and higher with every word that bubbled out of his mouth. “Also I...have too much respect for women to jump... – I may be old-fashioned, but I could never do that without love. The other Wardens used to poke fun and Maker knows what at me for this, but that is how I am. I just don't want to rush things.” Finally, his mouth snapped closed, the horror of the meaning of his words visible in every bit of his expression. “And why haven't you already stopped me talking?”

Lenya needed a moment to process the squall of words and to find the meaning in...Oh. Her eyes widened as it dawned her. “ You mean...sex?”

Alistair was beet-red by now. “Err...I confess, I never had a woman to come out with it just like that, but...yes.”


---------------------------------------------

'Tis fun to toy with dialogue like that

Modifié par Merilsell, 12 mars 2012 - 12:12 .

[tklivory]

Here is my totally-not-late (sigh, yes, totally and lamentably late) update to the front page post with the weekly updates!


New article for discussion:
John Scalzi's Utterly Useless Writing Advice

List of previously discussed articles can be found here.


New sacrificial lamb concritter:
Saqqara's Mythal's Favor, Chapter 1 - An editable Google Doc has been created for comments here You may also PM Saqqara on BSN with a comment.

List of previous concritters can be found here.


---


I'm so sorry for the lateness!  Saqqara's story will get an extra day next week to make up for the lateness in posting it!

[Klidi]

@ Meri - you do like tormeting the poor guy, don't you? But he's a brave guy, he is. I think I wouldn't be brave enough to ask Lenya about licking lamposts. xD
I really need to catch up again with your story - RL is quite difficult since I returned to my job and won't be better for some time yet, but I WILL find time to read it, damn it!

[Corker]

John Scalzi wrote...
One: It takes work. Lots and lots and lots of work.
Two: Sometimes, work sucks.
Three: But you do it anyway because that’s your job.

Man. Applicable to soooo many things...

That's an awesome article. I think it's easy to confuse "professional writer" with "professional novelist," and there's a whole lot more of the former than the latter. Heck, I didn't even know Scalzi wrote things other than his novels. But it makes sense that he does.

[Tryynity]

AmbraAlhambra wrote...

Thank you to everyone that critted my story! It is very appreciated!

I promise I will get to you and Klidi's shortly - For about 2 weeks my brain has been very fuzzy and unable to concentrate for very long, reading and comprehension has been almost impossible except for short paragraphs.  I dont know what it was but Im slowly getting better.  My stories have suffered severely and I am very behind   but not to worrry Ill get it back.

[Muirin]

Tryynity wrote...

For about 2 weeks my brain has been very fuzzy and unable to concentrate for very long, reading and comprehension has been almost impossible except for short paragraphs.  I dont know what it was but Im slowly getting better. 

**Get well soon!**

[Tryynity]

Muirin wrote...

Tryynity wrote...

For about 2 weeks my brain has been very fuzzy and unable to concentrate for very long, reading and comprehension has been almost impossible except for short paragraphs.  I dont know what it was but Im slowly getting better. 

**Get well soon!**

Thank you  Im much better so far, hopefully more improvent - Im having full bloods done next monday to see if anything shows up.

[Corker]

Siiiince the Scalzi piece is going over like a lead balloon, let me link to this article on character sub-plots that just went up yesterday, by Howard Tayler (Schlock Mercenary, Writing Excuses).

In the comments, Howard says that he does plan these sub-plots out ahead of time (mostly). And I thought, "Wow!" I've seen all sorts of writing exercises that encourage you to determine your characters' favorite drinks, their relationships with their mothers, etc., and while backstory is absolutely helpful, so is looking forward. What does this character want right now? As the author, am I going to give it to them? When and how?

The DA games do this primarily with companion quests, secondarily with banters. (Isabela and Aveline in DA2 come to mind; I think there's a real arc there, about acceptance and approval. They start out sabotaging each other and end up validating each other.)  I think that really does help add depth to the game.  Even with the companions you're *not* romancing, you're still involved in their personal quests for affection, sobriety, closure, healing, awakening... whatever their arc is.

And even though these arcs can happen in fairly short scenes (both in Howard's examples and in the games), they happen over the course of the narrative and they build up over time.  It's just... bam! Extra depth!  There's more here than just the protagonists!

(I'm rather guilty of that.  I don't like having to write large casts...)

Modifié par Corker, 15 mars 2012 - 12:10 .

[Klidi]

Lol I have a problem with that, in Failed to Fail - but hey, it's Zevran's fault! xD He simply doesn't care so much about other characters. Yes, they're comrades, maybe he'd even admit they'e friends, but to care about their subplots and personal goals? To paraphrase Sten: No.

Alistair, for example, didn't really want to take Morrigan or Zev to meet his sister. Or anyone else, except the Warden. So Zevran found out only a little bit that the Warden told him before the visit (afterwards he didn't say anything because he promised Alistair not to), and he was surprised that the Warden was willing to go that far to help a friend.

To balance it somehow is one of the most difficut things for me. At one hand, I don't want it to turn about the story of only two of them (Zev and the Warden) as if the others didn't exist. On the other hand, I don't want to force Zevran, who was a cold-blooded assassin just few months ago into friendship with that many people.

There must be some logical reason why to get involved into this sublopts, that Zevran would be able to accept - and it must be in a way that wouldn't draw attention away from him and his Warden. Zev is quite narcisstic and jealous, lol.

Just thinking about it gives me headache.

[Sialater]

Heh, I keep meaning to read those articles and I never get around to it. Sorry, Corker. Husband, work, writing projects, fic projects, The Old Republic, Mass Effect 3....

[Corker]

Klidi wrote...

Lol I have a problem with that, in Failed to Fail - but hey, it's Zevran's fault! xD He simply doesn't care so much about other characters. Yes, they're comrades, maybe he'd even admit they'e friends, but to care about their subplots and personal goals? To paraphrase Sten: No.

Why not?  He doesn't have to care out of the goodness of his heart.

Alistair has a sister?  A greedy sister he has cherished, foolish ideas about?  Hm, that could be bait for a trap one day.  (That's the great thing about kings - they make good clients, or good targets...)

The Warden is interested in getting prickly Morrigan to open up?  That had *better* be to learn what her true motivations are!  And he had best keep a close eye on it, if the Warden is too young and innocent and liable to fall for her wiles.  *jealous hmph*

A real qunari!  What a chance to learn... maybe one day, he will be the one to take a contract on a kithshok, and *he* won't end up food for the spotted cats.

Leliana has a bard master out to get her?  Hm, if he is ever in Orlais, it might be good to have some names to drop, contacts to look up.  Bards are to Orlais what Crows are to Antiva, and knowing their secrets could prove useful.

'Course, that's if he's a cold-blooded calculating assassin.  If you're writing him more hot-blooded and impulsive, then... boredom and curiosity can stand in.  (I think some of his banters with the party members exhibit both some poking at their motives, and just talking for talking's sake.  And winding certain party members up for the lulz.)

[Klidi]

Some very nice ideas there. Thanks!

I write him as a confused ex-assassin. He does not want to be an assassin any more but he's not sure if it's possible, if it's not too late for him, and how to do it.  He's not cold-blooded assassin any more, and it would be difficult for him to kill Alistair, for example (Wynne, perhaps not so much xD), but he's not that impulsive either.

For now, the only really important person is the Warden, who fascinates him, and he recently had to admit that it's more than just lust what he feels. The others are then viewed through their relationship with the Warden and same is true for their subplots. Leliana's former master is a threat to the Warden's safety, and he'll gladly slit her throat himself, for example. You're right about keeping a close eye on Morrigan. It's true he wouldn't let his Warden to go face Flemeth alone.
But to trott around whole country fo find a sword for a man who tried to kill his Warden once and who'd put him on a leash and sew his lips, if he could? NO. (How would he kiss him then?)

[maxernst]

Klidi wrote...

Lol I have a problem with that, in Failed to Fail - but hey, it's Zevran's fault! xD He simply doesn't care so much about other characters. Yes, they're comrades, maybe he'd even admit they'e friends, but to care about their subplots and personal goals? To paraphrase Sten: No.

(

I think it can be harder to work in side character subplots when you're writing a story from one character's point of view.  In Morrigan's Daughter, Aedan inadvertently wreaks havoc on Leliana's plans but there's no more than hints of what she was actually up to, because he's so absorbed in his own problems.  The plot actually depends on his inattention, so I can't tell the reader much about what's going on without making him seem like a complete fool.

[Corker]

Klidi wrote...
But to trott around whole country fo find a sword for a man who tried to kill his Warden once and who'd put him on a leash and sew his lips, if he could? NO. (How would he kiss him then?)

Sure, but the Warden's going to do it anyway.  And mistrust is a great reason for Zevran to be observing another character very, very closely.  Caring about his problems, no, but watching him, oh yes.

And to canonically make "empty scabbard" jokes at his expense!  A very low-key way to hit on Sten's sub-plot, without side-tracking entirely from the main narrative, actually...

[thesnowtigress]

Wow, everyone must be so busy. That or the unseasonably 20 degrees above average warm weather (at least where I am, it has put me into a time warp - I no longer know if it is March or May ha). So... what's up everyone? Getting any writing done?

[Corker]

Couple of microfills on the kmeme. Apparently it was my week to be mean to Carver. Also finished a midlength bit of femslash.

Got distracted by a shiny new prompt for precanon Duran Aeducan/Natia Brosca in a sort of Cinderella story. I've got two or three pages, then out of guilt went back to "Demon Queen of Kirkwall," which didn't update last Sunday or this Sunday.

I'm incorporating two short bits I wrote previously into this longer story, and the two chapters reusing the old work have been surprisingly hard. I thought having a chunk of words already 'done' would speed things along, but... no. Small changes along the way have added up, and instead of fitting puzzle pieces together, I'm sanding them down, adding putty in places, and *then* fitting them together.

But I did get a few hundred words out, and the chapter end may not be too far off...

[Rinshikai]

Been trying to start a new chapter for my Asunder entry. Though I'm finding it hard to write for a character that I'm still flushing out. Plus I'm trying to find all the lore I can on the Anderfels.

[Klidi]

Busy working weekend. I finally figured out how to continue with Failed to Fail, but I didn't have any time for it. I wrote literally only two words. And now I feel like a pressure cooker, if I don't get that story on paper soon, I'll explode.