973 réponses à ce sujet

[Klidi]

Interesting article. And thanks for sharing yours, Corker.

Characters wearing armours they find, without any adjustments - e.g. armours bought in Orzammar, and able to do everything in them, sleeping, walking, running... with same ease and at the same speed as without it are my pet peeves.
When I see characters climbing through the Frostback Mountains, carrying their armour, weapons, tents, pots, food, and personal things, and still able to get to the Temple within two days, it breaks immersion. I can't trust such characters or the author; in most cases I'll stop reading.

[Corker]

I haven't read a book like Travel in the Middle Ages (yet), but I do wonder if some cross between a backpacker, a modern homeless person, and a Special Forces operative would be closest to how an adventuring band would travel.

I wonder frequently if they're really bother with tents, for instance.

[Merilsell]

Klidi wrote...

Characters wearing armours they find, without any adjustments - e.g. armours bought in Orzammar, and able to do everything in them, sleeping, walking, running... with same ease and at the same speed as without it are my pet peeves.
When I see characters climbing through the Frostback Mountains, carrying their armour, weapons, tents, pots, food, and personal things, and still able to get to the Temple within two days, it breaks immersion. I can't trust such characters or the author; in most cases I'll stop reading.

I confess I often linger not much on the fact of how they carry all their stuff from one point to another, because if I would worry much about that, too, I would run screaming in circles soon. My story is long and complicated enough without these things at every turn. So in the cases of packs it is always Shale carrying...or... a Wizard did it. Hence I practically mentions their packs only when I need it or better said they need it.

Though armor is another case, I never use the game's measurement for it, which means Sten will never wear the Legion of the Dead armor. This is what Oghren can wear (with adjustments taken off screen, of course, lol) but no other of the group. Most of the clothes are too wide for Lenya, it being human-sized and Lenya being, well, not. Obviously.

I like to sprinkle these informations in over the course of the story, but I surely don't make myself crazy about that. There are more important things for me than to describe armor or the clothes they wear at every point they go.

...Yet I also try to not break immersion in the same time.

It is a bit of a double-edged sword here. 

[Raonar]

Klidi wrote...

Interesting article. And thanks for sharing yours, Corker.

Characters wearing armours they find, without any adjustments - e.g. armours bought in Orzammar, and able to do everything in them, sleeping, walking, running... with same ease and at the same speed as without it are my pet peeves.
When I see characters climbing through the Frostback Mountains, carrying their armour, weapons, tents, pots, food, and personal things, and still able to get to the Temple within two days, it breaks immersion. I can't trust such characters or the author; in most cases I'll stop reading.

It's not a pet peeve for me, but I do think the treatment of the march/travel is unrealistically depicted. You can't really fault most authors for this though. The game itself treats it poorly. For instance, I think it says somewhere that Redcliffe is like... a half a day's walk from the circle tower? Or something.

I took care of the encumbrance problem by giving my party two sets of equipment.:
-the travel garb: Mostly leather armor and chain mail undershirts, light boots, maybe with plates on the front. Cloaks during rain/snow. Stuff like that.
-The battle gear, which they put on when they start sensing darkspawn or if they know they are about to need it . Like say, in the deep roads, I had them trade distance covered each day for protection, since deep stalkers, spiders and loads of other things can jump them, not just darkspawn. The whole trek to the Anvil and back, plus the Cadash Thaig detour, ended up taking about a month.

Only the frontline fighters actually have any heavy armor: Alistair, the HN, the DN, Sten. On that note, I actually do incorporate the Darkspawn Sense, as it is described in The Calling. The range is aparently quite long (the game didn't even HAVE the darkspawn sense... unless you cound the red dots on the minimap as it, but it also tracks wolves and whatever. Ah well).

As for the rest, well, they have oxen! And a cart! And sometimes Sandal and Bodahn are around with THIER cart too. The EM uses frost magic/frost runes to keep a trunk frozen, so they have a portable freezer for meat. A disk with fire runes is essentially a portable campfire (no one said only weapons ca have them after all) and even D. Gaider described self-flling basins of self-purifying water in The Calling. Dwarven lyrium smiths know their ENCHANTMENT!

And yes, they do have to bother with tents. The journeys from one place to another take days/weeks. Fighting actually takes up very little of their lives as far as I can tell.

Also, Corker: Loved what you wrote about battles and how awkward armors are, and the whole "battle is confusing" thing was explained better than everywhere else I looked (although i admit, I didn't reaserch the matter all that extensively).

But... do full-face helmets really murder visibility that much? The way you described it makes it seem even more serious than horse blinders... And they render you essenially deaf too. The big wings/ears on helmets might actually have a real purpose as surrogate ears if that's the case... (ENCHANTMENT did it?)

Modifié par Raonar, 15 avril 2012 - 05:11 .

[BevH]

Interesting discussions here. I, too, have had a bit of a problem puzzling out travel times. The only true direct mention of it comes from Teagan if you make the decision to go to the mages for help with Connor. Teagan states that Kinloch Hold is a days' journey by boat. During the endgame, it's said that the horde is only two days away from Denerim, but that doesn't mean that it's only a two day journey from Redcliffe. In the states, you can make the trip from one coast to the other in about 3-4 days' time by vehicle. So based on that, I would imagine it would take at least 5-7 days to get from Redcliffe to Denerim and probably longer.

As for the helmet thing, yes they are that blinding. I've never actually worn a helmet, but I did once put on my dad's welding mask which I would imagine is very similar. It really narrows your field of vision.

[Corker]

Raonar wrote...
And yes, they do have to bother with tents. The journeys from one place to another take days/weeks.

Eh, I walked passed a young man taking a nap on the steps of the Louisiana State Supreme Court last week.  He was doing fine without a tent. 

Most images I've seen of medieval pilgrims don't show giant packs of tentage.  Dunno if that's fact or iconography, though.  Tournaments and such show tents, but those are rich guys.

I just wonder outdoor living necessarily entails a tent.  I know, "winter," but that's also why war season lasted spring to autumn.

Also, Corker: Loved what you wrote about battles and how awkward armors are, and the whole "battle is confusing" thing was explained better than everywhere else I looked (although i admit, I didn't reaserch the matter all that extensively).

But... do full-face helmets really murder visibility that much? The way you described it makes it seem even more serious than horse blinders... And they render you essenially deaf too. The big wings/ears on helmets might actually have a real purpose as surrogate ears if that's the case... (ENCHANTMENT did it?)

Thanks!

My helmet, at least, really did impact my visibility that much.  The eyeholes are an inch or so from your face, so it's not like a SCUBA facemask that's sealed right to you.  Get a big piece of cardboard, cut a slot about 2" x 4" in it, and hold it an inch from your face to get an idea of your 'window on the world.' 

(Or see if there's an SCA fighter practice near you.  We love newcomers and will be more than happy to put a helmet on your head.)

As far as I know, the wings/ears are for decorative parade armors only, and I don't think they funnel down to a hole in the side of the helmet.  Having sticky-out things that would catch an opponent's blade and transfer torque to your head and neck strike me as a Bad Idea for combat.

[Raonar]

Corker wrote...

Raonar wrote...
And yes, they do have to bother with tents. The journeys from one place to another take days/weeks.

Eh, I walked passed a young man taking a nap on the steps of the Louisiana State Supreme Court last week.  He was doing fine without a tent. 

Most images I've seen of medieval pilgrims don't show giant packs of tentage.  Dunno if that's fact or iconography, though.  Tournaments and such show tents, but those are rich guys.

I just wonder outdoor living necessarily entails a tent.  I know, "winter," but that's also why war season lasted spring to autumn.

I am fairly certain the Grey Wardens need tents, like the camp in the game clearly shows. After all, regardless of how stiudy they are and such, they are OUTLAWS and need a place to crash. It's not like they can waltz over to any inn on the side of the road. Besides, you can't really sleep in the rain, and the bannorn is basically a lot of hills/plains: few trees to take shelter under, no easy way to hide out without being seen, etc.

I am petty sure Sgt. Kylon is a handwave instrument. I can't see GW having the run of Denerim like the game allows. Actually, I had the city elf and the DC take turns at building the Dark Wolf persona while they were in the city, just to keep the authorities occupied enough that they didn't have enough men to think about the GW being there or where they were hiding out (and I even had to put in a handwave of my own, by having Bella move from Redliffe and start the Warden's Rest brewery/inn sooner).

As for the winter problem... I had my elven mage and Wynne cook up some rune circles that they can draw around the camp to keep it warm. It needs one of them, or a spirit warrior, to supply a constant stream of energy, which means that they take nightly guard shifts more often when it's cold, but it is still a realy convenient asset, this magic.  

It doesn't keep ran/snow out though... Alas.

Modifié par Raonar, 15 avril 2012 - 06:14 .

[Merilsell]

Ah yes, now that you mention it, the runes. I totally use that for their water skins and I can remember having used that to make their packs very light weight, but it slipped my mind. They are, if you will, my kind of "A wizard did it!" Lol.

ENCHANTMENT! xD

[Corker]

Raonar wrote...

I am fairly certain the Grey Wardens need tents, like the camp in the game clearly shows. After all, regardless of how stiudy they are and such, they are OUTLAWS and need a place to crash. It's not like they can waltz over to any inn on the side of the road. Besides, you can't really sleep in the rain, and the bannorn is basically a lot of hills/plains: few trees to take shelter under, no easy way to hide out without being seen, etc.

Which is why I didn't suggest staying at inns.

I just suspect that, in the course of human events, a lot of outlaw-type people have indeed slept in the rain, or else in a "tent" that was their oilskin cloak pulled around them.  Obviously the game shows tents, but it also shows bananas, as well as the Standard Fantasy Set Dressings that include mixed "leveled" armors from a five-hundred year technological development period, movie-prop weapons that no sane person would wield, hootchie armor, and cosmetics with pigment staying power Revlon would kill for.

All of which I'm fine with.  There's dragons and magic; tents don't bother me.  They're a standard set dressing.   I can't turn off my curiosity and tendency to compare pseudo-history to actual history, and I geek out with joy at some of the more historically accurate details, but I actually suspend my disbelief pretty high in Fantasyland.

[Raonar]

Corker wrote...

Raonar wrote...

I am fairly certain the Grey Wardens need tents, like the camp in the game clearly shows. After all, regardless of how stiudy they are and such, they are OUTLAWS and need a place to crash. It's not like they can waltz over to any inn on the side of the road. Besides, you can't really sleep in the rain, and the bannorn is basically a lot of hills/plains: few trees to take shelter under, no easy way to hide out without being seen, etc.

Which is why I didn't suggest staying at inns.

I just suspect that, in the course of human events, a lot of outlaw-type people have indeed slept in the rain, or else in a "tent" that was their oilskin cloak pulled around them.  Obviously the game shows tents, but it also shows bananas, as well as the Standard Fantasy Set Dressings that include mixed "leveled" armors from a five-hundred year technological development period, movie-prop weapons that no sane person would wield, hootchie armor, and cosmetics with pigment staying power Revlon would kill for.

All of which I'm fine with.  There's dragons and magic; tents don't bother me.  They're a standard set dressing.   I can't turn off my curiosity and tendency to compare pseudo-history to actual history, and I geek out with joy at some of the more historically accurate details, but I actually suspend my disbelief pretty high in Fantasyland.

Revlon?

And bananas? I don't remember bananas, just cheese...

As for suspension of disbelied, yes, the weapons are absurd, almost as absurd as my attempt to fridge logic why two handed weapons are so huge, for dwarves at least. I "suggested" that it is imperative for people to hold their distance from darkspawn as well as possible, because the taint is contagious, so the reach of the sword helps with that, especially in cramped areas underground. Yeah, it's a sketchy argument at best, but eh.

And man, rogues, even Leliana, have legs of adamantine and infinite mass strikes. I can't see how their blows below the belt could possibly work on armored people, but they do. Somehow.

And in a totally unrelated turn of events, I think I know what Sandal is.

Modifié par Raonar, 15 avril 2012 - 08:46 .

[thesnowtigress]

I for one have a hard time believing anyone can survive anything below zero (celsius). Yeah, moving around a lot can warm you up, but sleeping in the cold at night... maybe -5 is survivable, under some sort of shelter. Anyway, that rankles me in the game, when they traipse about the Frostback Mountains in Dalish Armor hehe. Surely, the creators, being from Edmonton would know cold... but it's just a game, with limitations. I try to make things more realistic in writing.

Also, that makeup stuff bothers me too, lol. Oh well, some things you can get away with in fantasy. That's why it's fun to write.

[thesnowtigress]

Oh, and this has more to do with movies, but it bothers me so much when a medieval person has perfectly straight white teeth. Or perfectly clean hair etc. At least in the game, I think they have awful looking teeth, unless I'm thinking of something else.

[Rhys.L]

thesnowtigress wrote...

Oh, and this has more to do with movies, but it bothers me so much when a medieval person has perfectly straight white teeth. Or perfectly clean hair etc. At least in the game, I think they have awful looking teeth, unless I'm thinking of something else.

I don't think the artists are going to go through every characters set of teeth... Just to add the odd bit of tooth decay.

[Klidi]

Raonar wrote...

As for the rest, well, they have oxen! And a cart! And sometimes Sandal and Bodahn are around with THIER cart too. The EM uses frost magic/frost runes to keep a trunk frozen, so they have a portable freezer for meat. A disk with fire runes is essentially a portable campfire (no one said only weapons ca have them after all) and even D. Gaider described self-flling basins of self-purifying water in The Calling. Dwarven lyrium smiths know their ENCHANTMENT!

And yes, they do have to bother with tents. The journeys from one place to another take days/weeks. Fighting actually takes up very little of their lives as far as I can tell.

Hm... I don't divide them into 'front line' and 'back line'. In the game the group is limited to four because otherwise it would be too easy; but in real life there is no reason to split into two groups and decrease their fighting force.

Also, they often can't take cart and ox with them... certainly not in the Deep Roads, Frostback Mountains. And there's also quality of roads. Especially less important roads would turn into endless pools of mud during each spring and autumn. Traveling with cart would slow slow them down, and make them more vulnerable in case of darkspawn attack. Which in my story happens much more frequently than in the game - I find it ridiculous that in the country at war, such fights should be 'rare events' that happen four or five times during the whole Blight.

I agree with Corker - I gave them tents because they're in the game, but it doesn't make much sense. Then again, in my story they often go to inns - people are not stupid, they can see that Loghain is not doing much against the Blight, and my Wardens use that to win the support of people. They were instructed, by one of their supporters,  'to become people's heroes by saving every stray cat' and they are doing their best.

I also make mages use spells in camp - Wynne and Morrigan place a lot of glyphs and curses around the camp every evening, for example. Morrigan is very smug about it and says it's useless to keep patrols, but Zev disagrees.

[Raonar]

Klidi wrote...

Raonar wrote...

As for the rest, well, they have oxen! And a cart! And sometimes Sandal and Bodahn are around with THIER cart too. The EM uses frost magic/frost runes to keep a trunk frozen, so they have a portable freezer for meat. A disk with fire runes is essentially a portable campfire (no one said only weapons ca have them after all) and even D. Gaider described self-flling basins of self-purifying water in The Calling. Dwarven lyrium smiths know their ENCHANTMENT!

And yes, they do have to bother with tents. The journeys from one place to another take days/weeks. Fighting actually takes up very little of their lives as far as I can tell.

Hm... I don't divide them into 'front line' and 'back line'. In the game the group is limited to four because otherwise it would be too easy; but in real life there is no reason to split into two groups and decrease their fighting force.

Also, they often can't take cart and ox with them... certainly not in the Deep Roads, Frostback Mountains. And there's also quality of roads. Especially less important roads would turn into endless pools of mud during each spring and autumn. Traveling with cart would slow slow them down, and make them more vulnerable in case of darkspawn attack. Which in my story happens much more frequently than in the game - I find it ridiculous that in the country at war, such fights should be 'rare events' that happen four or five times during the whole Blight.

I don't think you understand what sorts of carts I am talking about I mean the type with just two, HUGE wheels, about as tall as a dwarf. Two oxen have more than enough strength to drag something like that around. And the wheels can be made of some hard wood with metal on the edge. I've seen such things up close. Essentially, they are two-wheeled wheelbarrows that are dragged instead of pushed.

And it is definitely possible to take carts to the deep roads. The game screws up peoples' perception about it, but the roads are really large, underground highways. All the tunnels the party has to scour were probably put there becaue perfectly symmetrical, long, straight, wide roads would have been boring to travel and fight on. Remember the crossroads? And the DN Origin gathering? Yeah, the deep roads are like that, tall enough that you can't see the top. Going from Orzammar to Ortan Thaig alone is about a week's journey if I were to speculate, and it's ALL just walking down a straight road. The game has it on the map right next to Orzammar, but I am pretty sure it's somewhere below Orlais. And the Dead Trenches... whoa.

Evidence: In DAII, Hawke and co. have to walk down a deep roads highwway for two weeks in order to get back where they were supposed to be. I really can't understand how they survived so long, since all their supplies were left back with Bartrand. Varric is a surface dwarf, so he can't know all that much about underground foraging, and the other two have no idea what that place is like. The Deep Roads are also architectural marvels with little space for mushroom patches, which means that they would have to wander off in search of food... which is a perfect recipe for getting permanently lost, especially since there isn't always a lava river close to illuminate the place.

Starvation was basically handwaved by Varric saying they found some mushrooms anyway. Sigh.

Evidence two: Bodahn and Sandal are wandering traders tha got their booty from the deep roads before a fiasco made them fleee Orzammar. Now they go and plunder abandoned villages and towns. Obviously, that cart of theirs isn't just for show.

So yes, carts are definitely used, and needed in my case, since my party is... made of 12 people, a golem, two mabari dogs, and a wolf. And the leader is an overprepared guy that doesn't leave on any expedition without supplies to last in case stuff happens. Several times over.

Pull the oxen along, leave the supplies somewhere, maybe with part of your force behind (preferably non-wardens, as the darkspawn will sense the wardens and follow them), in a supply or guard post that exist at certan distances (according to The Calling). Leave the stuff there, explore the thaig, come back and get it, repeat.

Wow, I've been writing a lot today....

Modifié par Raonar, 15 avril 2012 - 09:12 .

[Merilsell]

thesnowtigress wrote...

Oh, and this has more to do with movies, but it bothers me so much when a medieval person has perfectly straight white teeth. Or perfectly clean hair etc. At least in the game, I think they have awful looking teeth, unless I'm thinking of something else.

True. Especially if the armor and clothes looks all new, as if taken right away from the movie's inventory. MAJOR PET PEEVE, ugh.

This is why I love "Games of thrones" for having a more realistic approach. Sure, some characters still look way too shiny for this gritty world, but there is dirt and lots of it. And thankfully their clothes get smudges and they sweat and get dirty. Something that LotR had done well, too, imo. It gives it simply a more vivid touch, especially when the story is settled in such a medieval world.

There was actually a post in the CMDA-forum (rightfully) complaining about the fact that there are so many Wardens having shiny hair and alabaster skin after weeks of traveling, which inspired me to take a bit of a more realistic approach:

[...]Distracted by a fierce itch in his face, Alistair still managed another nod and forced smile. Knowing that he would only hurt himself with the gloves on, he quickly discarded them to rub his face. Which, considering his hands previously were drained in sweat, wasn't exactly the best idea he had. Alistair frowned at his now dirtied hands, soothed by the dirt and dust previously clinging to his face. He felt like a pig; a sweaty, miserable, hungry one.

“I know I have no right to say this and it may not be that important now in our situation, Ser, but maybe you want to clean y – “

“Yes, please.” Alistair winced at how plaintive that sounded. He was aware that they weren't exactly traveling in the lap of luxury while fighting darkspawn and the Blight, yet would it nice to be out of the armor for a bit and feel less scruffy. [...]

Normally I simple omit this fact, because...well the same reason you don't write your character taking a poop behind some trees xD ...it is just not very appealing to read of. But here my both Wardens had a really baaaad day in Redcliffe, so it fitted here, if only to make their day even more worse *cackle*

[Corker]

Raonar wrote...

Revlon?

And bananas? I don't remember bananas, just cheese...

Revlon.  It's a major American cosmetics company.

The banana I spotted is in the Pearl.  There could be more elsewhere, but I didn't mean in camp.   (Maybe it's not a banana; maybe it's a cold-climate fantasy fruit that happens to be phallic and yellow-skinned...

My bolli fruit is quasi-canon!  )

[Raonar]

Corker wrote...

Raonar wrote...

Revlon?

And bananas? I don't remember bananas, just cheese...

Revlon.  It's a major American cosmetics company.

The banana I spotted is in the Pearl.  There could be more elsewhere, but I didn't mean in camp.   (Maybe it's not a banana; maybe it's a cold-climate fantasy fruit that happens to be phallic and yellow-skinned...

My bolli fruit is quasi-canon!  )

Weeell.... the Pearl IS at the docks, so... Trade? Maybe Isabela brought some along? It would definitely be in character for her. For many reasons. All of the reasons. All of them.

Modifié par Raonar, 15 avril 2012 - 09:21 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Raonar wrote...

And it is definitely possible to take carts to the deep roads. The game screws up peoples' perception about it, but the roads are really large, underground highways. All the tunnels the party has to scour were probably put there becaue perfectly symmetrical, long, straight, wide roads would have been boring to travel and fight on. Remember the crossroads? And the DN Origin gathering? Yeah, the deep roads are like that, tall enough that you can't see the top. Going from Orzammar to Ortan Thaig alone is about a week's journey if I were to speculate, and it's ALL just walking down a straight road. The game has it on the map right next to Orzammar, but I am pretty sure it's somewhere below Orlais. And the Dead Trenches... whoa.

Considering Orzammar became the trade capital of the dwarf kingdom, I'd agree that at one time the Deep Roads were suitable for taking carts down into. Parts of it probably aren't friendly to large vehicles anymore, especially the bits half-blocked by rubble or deliberately barricaded. You'd be stopping every time you reached a gap that wasn't big enough for the cart or too difficult to get over. That's what barricades are for, after all, and depending on the materials used it'd be time-consuming, back-breaking work to shift it. And that's not counting the sections of bridge that have crumbled into sections too narrow for a wide vehicle to cross. I guess you could put planks of wood down, but it's unlikely you'd be carrying around something suitable for every occasion.

Modifié par Shadow of Light Dragon, 15 avril 2012 - 10:12 .

[Klidi]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Considering Orzammar became the trade capital of the dwarf kingdom, I'd agree that at one time the Deep Roads were suitable for taking carts down into. Parts of it probably aren't friendly to large vehicles anymore, especially the bits half-blocked by rubble or deliberately barricaded. You'd be stopping every time you reached a gap that wasn't big enough for the cart or too difficult to get over. That's what barricades are for, after all, and depending on the materials used it'd be time-consuming, back-breaking work to shift it. And that's not counting the sections of bridge that have crumbled into sections too narrow for a wide vehicle to cross. I guess you could put planks of wood down, but it's unlikely you'd be carrying around something suitable for every occasion.

I agree.
And there's another problem - oxes don't go underground. They would have to find something/someone else to pull the cart. It's also impossible to make oxes climb up the mountains, or to take fully loaded carts uphill. There might be wide, straight, paved roads in the Deep Roads, but there's nothing like that in the mountains.

[Raonar]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...


Considering Orzammar became the trade capital of the dwarf kingdom, I'd agree that at one time the Deep Roads were suitable for taking carts down into. Parts of it probably aren't friendly to large vehicles anymore, especially the bits half-blocked by rubble or deliberately barricaded. You'd be stopping every time you reached a gap that wasn't big enough for the cart or too difficult to get over. That's what barricades are for, after all, and depending on the materials used it'd be time-consuming, back-breaking work to shift it. And that's not counting the sections of bridge that have crumbled into sections too narrow for a wide vehicle to cross. I guess you could put planks of wood down, but it's unlikely you'd be carrying around something suitable for every occasion.

Magically-created ice ramp/bridge?

But I have to disagree with you arguments about gaps. I doubt there are any. For one, I imagine that, with the Legion of the Dead holding the line so far from the city, the main roads leading to it do get some measure of maintenance. As for broken things, this isn't suspended architecture. The Deep Roads are carved straight out of the mountain, and the pavement is very sturdy. Black granite I imagine. This IS, after all, dwarven architecture. The only reason most passages are down is becasue Aeducan had them shut.

Genevieve, Duncan, Maric and the rest walked quite a while through the deep roads and they didn't find any real signs of wear. Dwarven construction is just that good. All the tunnels the game lands us with are a bit contrived, all things considered. To give some "scenery variety".

@Klidi: What do you mean oxes can't climb hills? They're not dragging boulders. Tent equipment is reasonably light in fact. And how in Thedas do Dwarves manage to conduct any sort of trade with the surface if carts can't go to and from their gates?

As for oxen in deep roads: Brontos work perfectly. Lore-wise, they are basically the cow/ox replacement.

But I'll stop here before I start looking like someone who argues just for the sake of arguing.

Modifié par Raonar, 15 avril 2012 - 10:53 .

[Klidi]

Sorry, I should have explained that by the 'mountains' I meant the trip to the Temple. You can't take oxes and carts there. There is a reason why in high mountains they have sherpas, you know. Things can only be carried in the big backpacks.

It is certainly possible to get carts to the GATES of Orzammar - it's in the Mountain Pass, so not so high. But I doubt it's possible to take them all the way down. Orzammar is underground. I'd say the cargo was lifted up by elevators (if we assume dwarven technology was more advanced and they had them in the 16th century) or in backpacks.

I was in the Wieliczka salt mines in Poland last year. The guide explained to us that they used horses in the mines to pull carts. To get them down, they had to bind the animal's legs and put blinds on its eyes and rope him down. But. Once down, it was impossible to pull the horse back to the surface again. They tried, but the animals did not survive - because of pressure, if I remember correctly. Wieliczka is 130 m deep, and I doubt Orzammar was less than that.

I agree that they could use a bronto, but they'd probably have to rent it, and I'm sure such thing would be rather expensive (especially to surfacers), and they would have to carry extra food and water for the animal. It would also need to be guarded, so the fighting force of the party would be always decreased. And they would have to make the same distance twice - to explore the area and then to return for the cart, so it would considerably slow down the whole expedition. More trouble, than it's worth.

But that's just my opinion, of course. It's a new idea, and if you'll use it in a story, I'll check it out to see how it worked.

Modifié par Klidi, 15 avril 2012 - 11:18 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

@Raonar - Contrived or not, anyone reading a Blight-era fic is going to base what the Deep Roads should look like on the games first and foremost, if only because many haven't even touched the novels. Not that this should stop how you write your story. I'm just saying.

[Tryynity]

I dont always mention the cart but for me its a given it was there most of the time. Sometimes my lot sleep under the stars, sometimes in inns, sometimes in tents, sometimes in caves.

I dont limit myself to what was in game, the devs most likely didnt have the resources to put in everything, as long as it was viable in that era Im good with it.

I do not get bogged with details in writing, maybe I should I dont know, but movies/visual I am much more fussy. Not so much with animation. The director has to sell me the scene for me to accept, but again it depends on the type of movie. My favourite directors push the line of what is believable or not. I was only talking about this last night.

[Corker]

Tryynity wrote...
I do not get bogged with details in writing, maybe I should I dont know, but movies/visual I am much more fussy. .

I think it's a hard thing to balance.

I know I'm not interested in reading detailed descriptions of basic equipment maintenance, just because the author researched them.  If it isn't advancing the story or illuminating a character, it can go away.

But taken too far, you get characters emerging from months of deprivation, away from all possible resupply, as fine and fresh as when they went in.  And that can jar even the most forgiving reader.

"Does it matter?" is maybe a good question to ask.  If you will never have a race condition or beat-the-clock travel scene in your story, does it matter how long travel times take?  Probably not.  The characters get there when they get there, and that's fine.  But if you're writing a Blight fic and you're worried about Connor's demon going out to play, or beating the horde to Denerim, or even contemplating trying to go to the Wardens in Jader after Ostagar, yeah, travel times sure could matter.

If I'm never stopping to specifically describe a character's appearance, I don't need to worry about how clean or scruffy they are.  If I am describing them, then I'd better worry about it, and make sure it's consistent with what they've been up to recently.

If the characters haven't experienced an unexpected setback in their travels, I think you can assume they have enough provisions, however they get them.  If they're beset by an unexpected blizzard and everyone is stressing out over the weeks and weeks they're losing as they wait for the pass to clear, I should probably figure out how they're not also starving.  

Klidi wrote...

Sorry, I should have explained that by the
'mountains' I meant the trip to the Temple. You can't take oxes and
carts there. There is a reason why in high mountains they have sherpas,
you know. Things can only be carried in the big backpacks.

Reminds me of a story... Knights of the Dinner Table is a fairly venerable gaming comic.  Once it showed the adventuring party at the top of a mountain with a temple full of lost gold, and the game master (GM) tells them they have no way to get it all down the mountain.  Three of the four PCs get mad, insisting that if the gold came up the mountain, then it could go down the mountain.  The fourth PC pointed out that perhaps, like the ancient Incas, the locals used the many llamas that lived on the mountain as beasts of burden.

The other three PCs had, of course, slaughtered all of the llamas on the way up.  For the XP, probably.