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#76
Klidi

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It's fine. I should have explain myself more clearly. Posted Image

Yeah, the PM was:

I like the idea, not bad but it's on the edge of chatspeak. Not really chatspeak, just to much dialogue without anything going on, know what I mean? Like in script. And that's forbidden here.That's why I PM not review so others wouldn't notice. Just thought you'd like to know, and maybe rewrite a bit. Just an idea though.

ATill this day, this is the weirdest response to any of my stories.  Yes, it's true, FFN doesn't allow stories that are only dialogue. But the story to which the PM was related is not a script - I put there a link, so you can see for yourself. There's not much narration there, because most of the time they're sitting and talking, but there is.

#77
Sialater

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Yeah, that why I was astonished. Because I read it. It didn't read like a script at all, to me.

#78
tklivory

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Makes me wonder if the person who PM'd you had gotten warned about 'chatspeak' him/herself by FF.net at some point, so might be overly sensitive to it, or something? Doesn't seem hostile (a bit clueless and doesn't fully understand the difference between chatspeak and extended dialogue, maybe) but not hostile. *shrugs* Some people do expect 'moar' than dialogue, but I like reading scripts & plays meself...

Makes me wonder if Shakespeare would have been banned from FF.net for chatspeak... *snert*

#79
Klidi

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Oh, yes. Poor Bard wouldn't have a chance.

Nurse: O lamentable day!
LADY CAPULET: O woful time!
CAPULET: Death, that hath ta'en her hence to make me wail,
Ties up my tongue, and will not let me speak.

Reviewer at FFN - Chatspeak is not allowed. Besides, you have wrong grammar. This is clearly a trollfic. Reported!

There were many discussions about 'chatspeak ban', but apparently the general opinion is that there were too many crappy stories in chatspeak form and that in increased quality.

#80
Sialater

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So, as a complete aside....

I'm reading this article in November's Writer's Digest (yes, I'm a month behind), on an interview with a two-time Pulitzer-Prize winner feature writer, Gene Weingarten.  (He's the guy who had the violin virtuoso Joshua Bell play outside a subway entrance DC and wrote an article about it -- I vaguely remember something on one of those TV news magazines about it.) 

In this interview, he states that all stories must somehow try to explain a piece of the meaning of life.  Not the whole thing mind you, but a piece, however small.  What do y'all think about that?

I guess, as writers, hobbyists that we may be right now, we are trying to do that a bit.  I don't know that *I've* ever thought of it like that, or even if I was doing it.  Is that far too pretentious for us?  For any writer?  Does Dragon Age even lend itself to that? :lol:

Modifié par Sialater, 06 décembre 2011 - 07:08 .


#81
Corker

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I read that Bell piece when it came out, as well as several savage take-downs of it. (The WaPo is my local paper.) I tend to agree with the take-downs, but that's because it was art and opinion masquerading as science.

(Summary: World-class violinist plays a Stradivarius violin outside the subway, busker-style, during rush hour. Only one person who recognized him, one small child, and possibly a third (I don't recall) stopped to listen to the lovely music, thus proving that we are all small-minded people closed from the beauty around us, and/or that we can't distinguish a world-class violinist from a random busker, and/or that some people have to actually get to work on time, even in Washington.)

But that wasn't Sia's question. :) The more I roll the idea around in my head, the more I'm not sure what it means...

If life is "one damn thing after another," then all narrative indeed attempts to enforce meaning and order on it. My husband, the political blogger, frequently talks about "the narrative" and how everyone is trying to control "the narrative." "The narrative" contextualizes your facts, gives them shades of meaning, influences other people's perceptions of events. It's the difference between "faceless accusers" and "anonymous whistleblowers."

My mother died because she had cancer. She had cancer because... she had cancer. Maybe it was genetic. That's it. But in a story, that's almost never it (unless the point of the story is that yes, sometimes things happen for no reason). Hawke's mother dies to teach us about Evil Crazy Blood Mages and how they're bad and hurt people, even strong people like Hawke. It's a part of Kirkwall's larger narrative.

But do I think that all stories need to stake out a philosophical or moral ground and defend it, that is, expound on a possible meaning of life, why we're here, what we're meant to do? Eh... I suppose even genre fiction will have that, too. How are your characters rewarded or punished for their actions? Does the Warden who puts aside love for duty ever, ever, ever find satisfaction in that duty? How you answer that question says something about the relative value of love vs. duty. Are you working in an inherently moral world where good tends to win (eventually) and evil tends to fail (eventually)? Or do the bastards get ahead, and die of old age in their beds? When the hero encounters injustice, is it always resolved? What are the values that lead to happily ever after, and what are the ones that lead to more pain?

True story: Twice, I've had other folks here on BSN request that I *not* resolve two different series by having everyone find True Love and Be Happy. They were hungry for a story which showed a Meaning of Life that was something *besides* romantic love. Not that there's anything wrong with True Love - but it's *everywhere.* They wanted something that held up a different idea as a vehicle for self-fulfillment.

And one of those was a light sex farce kmeme series, too. If *that* can have a wider meaning, I guess just about anything can. :)

#82
DreGregoire

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Sialater wrote...

In this interview, he states that all stories must somehow try to explain a piece of the meaning of life.  Not the whole thing mind you, but a piece, however small.  What do y'all think about that?

I guess, as writers, hobbyists that we may be right now, we are trying to do that a bit.  I don't know that *I've* ever thought of it like that, or even if I was doing it.  Is that far too pretentious for us?  For any writer?  Does Dragon Age even lend itself to that? :lol:


This is something that comes naturally. Granted in Fanfiction it may not be about our modern life but definately about life. You've more than likely done it with out recognizing what you are doing. I know I've read some of your stuff but it's been a long while, but anything in a story that pertains to "the way things are and the reasons for doing such" leads a writer easily to writing about the meaning of life. My understanding is that he doesn't mean that you directly spell it out for your readers rather that you show the reader. For instance, a mage may be looking for the meaning of his/her life. Why has this individual been granted those mage abilities? What of becoming a warden? Is the purpose of living to make a difference or impact upon our world? "The meaning of Life" is definately subject to the opinions of the individual. Some people believe we all search for the meaning of life, others label it something else. Belonging to, being part of, destiny, purpose, etc.. :)

Modifié par DreGregoire, 06 décembre 2011 - 07:45 .


#83
tklivory

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What is being a Grey Warden if it is not an examination of the meaning of life? "In War, Victory. In Peace, Vigilance. In Death, Sacrifice."

Hard to imagine more fundamental 'meaning of life' exploration than what is contained in that motto. Obviously, not all FF will explore that theme, and some will go deliberately against it, but the mere fact that the Grey Wardens are what they are is a fillet of gravity, even within the FanFiction context.

Granted, not all writing will reflect this. I don't think my 'Once Upon a Time' series qualifies for that, certainly... >,<

#84
RagingCyclone

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The "meaning of life" is very subjective. It can encompass anything from moving forward from a personal tragedy to just why someone woke up that day. A professor I had in college preferred to say that all writers should have not so much a "meaning of life" but more a "spice of life" in their writing. (my prof hated when writers claimed to need "meaning of life" when there is no answer to what the "meaning of life" really is)

#85
tklivory

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It's a bunch of Monty Python skits all strung together, in which a guys explodes when he eats a mint that is 'wafer thin'.

That's the Meaning of Life...

#86
RagingCyclone

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Yeah...old Professor Gerald was very literal sometimes and you had to shrug off some of the things he said. I still got an A in his class. ;P

However, I think the point both views take is that there is some sort of personal exploration in a story.

#87
Sialater

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I thought it was 42?

LOL, anyway, I just wanted to throw that out there and see what y'all thought.

#88
tklivory

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*facepalm* I can't believe I forgot that one...

*turns in nerd card*

#89
Klidi

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Sialater wrote...

So, as a complete aside....

I'm reading this article in November's Writer's Digest (yes, I'm a month behind), on an interview with a two-time Pulitzer-Prize winner feature writer, Gene Weingarten.  (He's the guy who had the violin virtuoso Joshua Bell play outside a subway entrance DC and wrote an article about it -- I vaguely remember something on one of those TV news magazines about it.) 

In this interview, he states that all stories must somehow try to explain a piece of the meaning of life.  Not the whole thing mind you, but a piece, however small.  What do y'all think about that?

I guess, as writers, hobbyists that we may be right now, we are trying to do that a bit.  I don't know that *I've* ever thought of it like that, or even if I was doing it.  Is that far too pretentious for us?  For any writer?  Does Dragon Age even lend itself to that? :lol:


I think yes. In the game itself, all main characters struggle to find their place in the world, to give some meaning to their life. DAO is very existentialist game, imho. So even if the author wouldn't do more than follow their stories and keep them more-less IC, it would be there.

From what I've read, I think most of the authors do it, though they perhaps don't think of it that way. But when they write the character, explore him, give him more depth and life than in the game, then it's almost inevitably there.

#90
Tryynity

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RE : Meaning of Life -

Quote by Stephen King - “Harry Potter is about confronting fears, finding inner strength and doing what is right in the face of adversity. Twilight is about how important it is to have a boyfriend.”

That is what I think when I hear that statement - when I write I try to include an underlying theme - my Gwyn story was about the three loves "Phileo, Eros, & Agape" . What I loved about Disney - is there is always a message/moral.

Please dont shoot the messanger if you are a Twilight fan...

Modifié par Tryynity, 06 décembre 2011 - 08:53 .


#91
Sialater

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Nah, but I've come to the conclusion Stephanie Meyer is laughing at her detractors all the way to the bank.

#92
Tryynity

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LOL - I imagine JK Rowling is too!

The differences in the writing were pointed out by King - one was about other stuff as well as the story.

#93
maxernst

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I think worrying too much about the meaning of your work doesn't lead to good writing. Worry about your characters and what they would do in the circumstances you've placed them in. Trying to push philosophy in a story tends to result in clunky mechanical plots that rely on characters doing things without strong motivation, and characters that sound like mouthpieces for ideas rather than real people. If the story is strong, the reader will find meaning in it, because even if we're not conscious of it, there is meaning in the choices a writer makes. I haven't read Twilight, but I'm sure its fans do find more in it than the importance of having a boyfriend. (And I think Harry Potter's overrated--I'll take a Wizard of Earthsea over HP any day).

#94
tklivory

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I think one of my favorite authors for really making you think about the most important things - identity, love, hate, the future, the past, old things long gone - is Patricia McKilip. I absolutely adore her books, and I've never come away from one of her books with anything less than awe. I would hold her up as one of the *truest* to human nature authors I've read, and quite often she does it through contrast so subtle one doesn't even notice it until suddenly it hits you in the gut. Highly recommended.

#95
Guest_AmbraAlhambra_*

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Sialater wrote...

So, as a complete aside....

I'm reading this article in November's Writer's Digest (yes, I'm a month behind), on an interview with a two-time Pulitzer-Prize winner feature writer, Gene Weingarten.  (He's the guy who had the violin virtuoso Joshua Bell play outside a subway entrance DC and wrote an article about it -- I vaguely remember something on one of those TV news magazines about it.) 

In this interview, he states that all stories must somehow try to explain a piece of the meaning of life.  Not the whole thing mind you, but a piece, however small.  What do y'all think about that?

I guess, as writers, hobbyists that we may be right now, we are trying to do that a bit.  I don't know that *I've* ever thought of it like that, or even if I was doing it.  Is that far too pretentious for us?  For any writer?  Does Dragon Age even lend itself to that? :lol:


I think a lot of times that comes up almost unconsciously. If you think about it, stories are about events, adversity, struggle, happiness, love, hate, death, life and everything in between - and this is especially true for DA since it contains all of that in some form or another. The ways your character acts in those situation says a lot about that subject (especially since, as Rage says, the "meaning of life" is really, really subjective and can mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people). In my story, one of the things I really wanted to focus on was the growth of my characters as people, the effects these events have on their personatities, and depicting their reactions to the events in DA with a lot of realism. For DA FF especially, given the subject matter (since there is so much of "meaning of life" ideas and messages inherent in DA), I think having that in a story organically is very much possible and maybe even, I would say, difficult to avoid. Even the fluff pieces tend to have an element of that idea in there.

#96
Tryynity

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So far I have not written a thing this whole week - Im wondering if I can slam dunk something by tomorrow.

I did correct and update a chapter - so it not a TOTAL fail

#97
tklivory

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So, the concept of 'beginnings' came up in a discussion I had with a fellow BSNer (hi, Ambra!) Basically, the concept of 'how to begin' a story, particularly a story that will be extensive. We were discussing Blight fics, and how difficult it can be to pinpoint a place to actually begin the story. Do you use "In medias res"? Start at the beginning? Begin in a prequel fashion before the game starts with completely AU material? Also, how much of the source material (game in this case) do you use? How much on-camera vs off-camera?

And for non-FF writing, sometimes figuring how to start can be equally frustrating. Sometimes it's hard to remember that the reader doesn't know your characters at all yet, or your world, or anything about your story except what was on the back cover (or in reviews). So for those of you who have ventured beyond the FF realm, how do you like to begin? What approaches do you use?

I'm reminded of Frank Herbert in his Dune series: Beginnings are such delicate times. It is often said that the first chapter will make or break a sale in a bookstore, so what are your strategies for getting attention, or trying get the attention of the reader?

Modifié par tklivory, 08 décembre 2011 - 08:37 .


#98
Tryynity

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Where I begin, so far I have not struggled with it so far. I usually get a starting scene and the story just zooms in like a camera into the life of a character.

With my blight fan-fic I started with the Dalish Beginning but fleshed it out with some background story of my character and I also included an Antivan beginning for Zev based on what the game suggested - again I fleshed it out myself.

As a reader - I like to be hooked by the first chapter. If I like the author I will sometimes persist past the first chapter and hope I get grabbed.


I judge each book/story I read by how much I cant bear to put it down v's having to force myself to read it.

I have not worked out really yet what it is that sucks me right in to a story and I cannot put it down.

I think it is usually a question in me gets raised and I read on to have it answered.

I am wondering what other people experience.

#99
Klidi

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Beginnings are tricky. Personally I start at the beginning - but not the beginning of the game, but the beginning of that particular scene, with what I feel is important to know in order to understand what is going on. I prefer not telling everything about my character, his background etc. in the beginning, but to reveal it slowly as the story goes on.

For example,
Failed to Fail starts with Zevran's flasback of his meeting with Loghain and Howe, because that was when he first heard about his little Warden, when he got his description, name etc.

Eating Crow
, the story where Zevran meets Hawke and co. in Kirkwall starts with little explanation of how he got there and why his Warden is not with him.

When I pick the book or fanfic to read,  I check the summary first. That creates some expectations.
 
So when a summary says, for example, 'romance between Zevran and Surana', and then the first chapter starts with Surana being born or just arriving in the Tower... then it must be really well written, or with some interesting twist for me to give it a chance. If in the next chapter I find Zevran's history, the chance that I'll keep reading increases quite a lot. If, however, it's chapter 17 and Surana didn't get to Ostagar yer, and Zev wasn't even mentioned, I feel cheated and I stop reading.

It's as if I asked my Mum: so how dd you and Dad ended together? And she'd say: Well, I was born... or even better: well, there was this boy in the high school that I loved but he was dating with another girl... no, it's not really related to how me and your Dad met, but I'm going to tell you anyway. Posted Image

#100
Corker

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My Blight fic started out as a personal log. Not in the sense that it's an IC diary; me-the-player thought it would be fun to write down my IC reactions to the game as I went. So "Birthright" follows "Origins" pretty closely, although with some odd skips and jumps, and a few additions.

My AU Blight fic just picked out selected scenes to showcase. I'm not even sure where I started, but I think it was with meeting Morrigan in the Korcari Wilds. Nothing before that point was both AU enough and interesting enough to warrant showing, I suppose.

"Search for the Dragon's Claw," on the other hand, had a very definite concept for its prologue-opener, and that's the first Indiana Jones movie. Before we get to what *this* movie is about, let's see a slice of the adventuring life of our protagonist! I didn't manage to fit in anything as significant as inserting and introducing another major character like Rene, but I did demonstrate how Finn relies on magic rather than muscle to solve problems. That comes up a few chapters later.

"Demon Queen of Kirkwall" opens, like "The Last Crusade," with a flashback - three flashbacks, actually, one for each protagonist. "Last Crusade," in addition to having a fun adventure scene and explaining the origin of the snake phobia and the hat, really demonstrates the relationship between Henry Sr and Henry Jr. I use mine to establish each character's experience with the entire mage/templar/maleficar/abomination thing that's important to DA2.

"Wild Blood," my DA2 AU, picks up on Sundermount when the romantic leads meet for the first time. That let me do some establishing shots to ground the AU and also show (rather than tell in a flashback if I'd gone in media res) how the two conflicting vows that drive the entire story get sworn, and why. But I didn't have much to say about anything before that: there were some darkspawn, the Chasind left Ferelden and traveled to Sundermount, etc.

I like the Origins of DAO. They each spend just enough time establishing "a day in the life" before totally upending that sense of order. Long backstories, particularly if I think they're just going to end with the events of the Origin, are less interesting to me, especially if they are there to showcase the many ways in which the Warden has suffered. I don't mind stories set in those times of the Warden's life - those can be interesting - but those are stories with their own beginning, theme, middle and end, not long introductions to some other story. I'm down with a certain amount of flashbacks, Fade dreams, or other techniques to introduce backstory matter in the current story-time, if it's relevant. But if your story is about the Blight, then your scenes need to be about how your Warden comes to defeat the Blight.