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[thesnowtigress]

My first story started in the time between the end of the Blight and the beginning of Awakening. The whole first couple of chapters of that story I cringe when I read it over again, lol. I was rusty and was just writing from memory without any structure or anything, so I am surprised that people continue on through that story and finish it, surprised also that it seems to be the favourite. lol.

My current story I am working on, I went with a sort of mystery hook - I started it off with something that might normally be in the middle of a book, but stuck it at the beginning. Then eventually I unravel what happened through current day stuff and a bit of flashbacks.

For me as a reader, the beginning needs to be interesting enough to make me want to keep reading. I don't usually give up on books, but I really hate forcing myself to read something I'm not into because then it takes forever to finish. The only books I never finished were "Life of Pi", just couldn't get through it, and "Harry Potter" and "The Hobbit" (I am going to run and hide now, sorry I just could never get into Tolkien's style of writing).

[Tryynity]

Dont hide - I found Lord of the Rings boring and hard to finish - I loved the characters, but the story went on and on and on. I was only in 5/6th class so I put it down to that.

Harry Potter though, I could not put down and read each book cover to cover in almost one sitting - yes even the big phat one, hahaha.

So it seems its a case of horses for courses, some are gonna love what others hate. That is good to know.

[Klidi]

I'm a big Tolkien fan, but I also had problem with Hobbit at first and I never finished Silmarillon. Even his non-fiction work is more exciting than that.
Harry Potter - I loved the first book, the the others were average, and the last one was total disappointment for me. I had to force myself to read it.

[tklivory]

Heh... I read The Hobbit in Kindergarten (*sigh* I am *such* a bibliophile), but IN MY DEFENSE I didn't have a TV when I was a kid. I had to do *something*. And, unlike everyone else I know, the Silmarillion is, like, one of my favorite books ever. I read it every year the day after Christmas as a treat to myself. But I freely admit I am a total nerd in that respect.

With the Harry Potter books, I tried an experiment: I didn't read any of the books until the movies were almost all out (I wanted to try to hold out til the end, but I was so upset after seeing the Half-Blood Prince movie and still having no ****ing idea what the frak a Half-Blooded Prince was, I broke down and read them in one weekend.) I think Goblet of Fire was my favorite, but TBH I've never felt the need to go back and re-read them (though my DH does).

As for books I couldn't finish, I have trouble in general with Nathaniel Hawthorne. Studying his books in high school were torture to me. Dunno why, just can't handle his stuff. *shrugs*

[Corker]

This holds the honor of being the first book I started and then put down. With force. I mean, he had Spock disobeying orders to visit a grave. Spock sometimes lets his emotions get the upper hand, but usually over saving people's lives or something. Not visiting the insensate dead.

Talk about a Canon Marty Stu!

[Asch Lavigne]

If we're going to discuss books....
I'll be nice and just chime in on what was mentioned already...

Never read the Hobbit *gasp* Just not a Tolkien fan. I had to force myself to try and finish Fellowship just so I would never have to pick it up again, never bothered with any other of his books.

Harry Potter - books were good except for the last one

I do have to state though that my favorite book series is Jim Butcher's The Dresden Files. Although I haven't liked the last few as much, new editor I think.

[RagingCyclone]

I have never gotten into the HP books...just do not appeal to me. The last book I read that I could not put down was Angels and Demons. As good as GRR Martin is I still cannot just sit down at one shot to read his books. I love the Fire and Ice series, however, I can only read so much at one time before I have to set them down. The books I am reading now are the Dune books...pre Dune. I finished the Houses series and I'm currently reading the Butlerian Jihad series.

[Merilsell]

Corker wrote...

I like the Origins of DAO. They each spend just enough time establishing "a day in the life" before totally upending that sense of order. Long backstories, particularly if I think they're just going to end with the events of the Origin, are less interesting to me, especially if they are there to showcase the many ways in which the Warden has suffered. I don't mind stories set in those times of the Warden's life - those can be interesting - but those are stories with their own beginning, theme, middle and end, not long introductions to some other story. I'm down with a certain amount of flashbacks, Fade dreams, or other techniques to introduce backstory matter in the current story-time, if it's relevant. But if your story is about the Blight, then your scenes need to be about how your Warden comes to defeat the Blight.

My story actually starts after Lenya has left her clan, because I didn't want to rehash the origin. It gets old very fast and takes only time away I could have better seized with getting down to business. I prefer to use the technique of flashback and memories, however, to show more of Lenya's past and who she was before becoming a Warden. Though only if it fits to the rest of the chapter. Some pieces of her past/characterization like where the mutual hatred between her and Merrill stems from will be only told a hell lot later. The current chapter that I'm wriiting I use to let Lenya tell Alistair about the happenings in the cave and Tamlen, (which is a damn big step for her, btw) but that's it about the Dalish origin as it is in the game.

I don't think my first chapters are that interesting, because I lost myself too much in details that weren't that important in hindsight...but then again I started writing this FF almost two years ago, so it would be a miracle if I wouldn't cringe at the first chapters of it now

Modifié par Merilsell, 08 décembre 2011 - 10:32 .

[Klidi]

I learned to put down the book I didn't like at uni. Which is paradox, because I studied literature. But Slovak system of literature study sucks. In the third semester I was supposed to read 65 novels/collection of short stories. Plus the textbooks, of course. It wasn't physically possible (I was determined to had keep my job and sanity as well), so I cheated. If I didn't like the book, I put it down - no time to waste on it, so I used any analysis I could find in libraries or on internet...

[RagingCyclone]

Klidi...I had the same kind of reading schedule getting my history degree. I learned how to speed read very well. I've purposely slowed since then, but I was reading 100 pages an hour with comprhension enough to still get an A or B on the test the next day.

[tklivory]

@ books discussion: I haven't had a chance to read Butcher yet (though he's been recommended to me several times). And I'm so in love with the original Dune series that I'm hesitant to read the new series because I've never been a huge fan of Kevin J Anderson's writing style (though he himself was a sweetheart when I met him). I've mentioned Patricia McKilip and love singing her praises, but if I start listing my favorite authors, this post will be too long. So I won't.

*squirms* Fine: Terry Pratchett and Elizabeth Moon. BUT THAT'S IT!

Moving on...

@ writing discussion: I'm torn how to handle my Blight fic's beginning. On the one hand, her origin is completely pivotal to the remainder of her book and is *very* AU for the origin (City Elf). On the other hand, I love *in medias res* and flashback, especially when trauma is involved, so as 1) not to overwhelm the reader with lots o' icky badness right at the outset and 2) so you can see the progression of the character as the story develops.

But I also am drawn to the idea (for a city elf female that chooses to RP this way) of starting with her really happy and chirpy, getting ready for the 'best day of her life', so you can see who she was before Vaughan crashes the wedding.

*torn* So, I don't see my Blight fic even starting to get published until I've gotten quite a ways into it and am fully satisfied that "that" is how I want to present my Tabris.

One of my favorite stories that begins *in medias res* is a comic book actually, called "Strangers in Paradise" by Terry Moore. In his third volume, it starts out ten years after the events of Volume II and then goes back in time via flashback. Very touching, because the character's life basically was horrible and she just was remembering good times... Very poignant.

I'm not as fond of *in medias res* when it starts "middle of gunfight, flashback to remember why they're here, resume gunfight" like Hollywood occasionally overuses.


EDIT: wish I coulda taken shortcuts on reading in my degree, but it's kinda hard to listen to Shostakovich in fast-mo and analyze it with any perspicacity.  Also, who would *not* want to listen to Philip Glass? 

Modifié par tklivory, 08 décembre 2011 - 10:49 .

[Merilsell]

Oh books, yes. Those funny things were letters are printed on paper. Well, haven't read an actual book for ages, guess the last one was...err...Gaider's "The Calling" a year ago?

Err...yeah, I used to read more in the past though, mostly Tolken-ish fantasy. I always tell myself to read more and start to reduce the steadily growing pile of books, but mostly I carry the most recent book only around as an additional weight in my bag. Le sigh.

[Klidi]

RagingCyclone wrote...

Klidi...I had the same kind of reading schedule getting my history degree. I learned how to speed read very well. I've purposely slowed since then, but I was reading 100 pages an hour with comprhension enough to still get an A or B on the test the next day.

Wow. I bow to you. I could do that for textbooks, that was not a problem, but not fiction. 100 pages took me approx. 3 hours, and that was already fast for me. The collections of short stories were the worst - too many different characters and details to remember. <_<

[thesnowtigress]

@RagingCyclone - I studied history in university, too, and most of the time I just did not do any of the readings. I would try in the beginning, then I would just get behind eventually. I noticed that most of the professors already lectured about what was in the readings, so I slacked off lol. GRR Martin takes patience to read, lol. He tends to go off on long tangents, but that's how he explains the world I guess. The first three books are the best in my opinion. I think the reason I couldn't get into HP and Tolkien is because when I tried to read them, I wasn't into fantasy. But I still don't want to try again now anyway lol.

@tklivory - I have an Elizabeth Moon book that I have yet to read. "The Deed of Paksenarrion" - is it worth it? It's been sitting on my shelf for a while now. As for your fic, I think it would be interesting to see the AU origin straight away... but then again it might take away some mystery?

[tklivory]

Merilsell wrote...

Oh books, yes. Those funny things were letters are printed on paper. Well, haven't read an actual book for ages, guess the last one was...err...Gaider's "The Calling" a year ago?

Err...yeah, I used to read more in the past though, mostly Tolken-ish fantasy. I always tell myself to read more and start to reduce the steadily growing pile of books, but mostly I carry the most recent book only around as an additional weight in my bag. Le sigh.

There are three authors I still buy physical books for (ironically, they are the 3 I mentioned in my previous posts).  Everything else gets put on my ereader.  3000 books and counting.  Plus, if you want to read some... *ahem* reference materials for tent time, no one gives you that condescending *look* when they see the cover.  

And I don't read incredibly fast, I think, but faster than most people I know.  I think it's the no TV thing.  I still don't watch TV regularly (my TV is for video games), and still tend to read books on the weekend.

[RagingCyclone]

Klidi..Yeah...it was tough back then reading that way. I think I have reread all of those books since then at a slower pace. Game of Thrones took me 12 hours to read.

Tklivory...I never got into the original Dune books, they were too messianic in the focus for me..I think that's why I like the KJA books in that series more.
As for story...I would be tempted to start where she wakes up in Vaughn's estate after the wedding...just a thought.

Meri...I have a Kindle for all the books I read...I love that thing.

[Klidi]

@tklivory - at which point you would start in media res?
I think it could be interesting to start late in the game. She would return to the Alienage and people would comment how she changed, how she's not the happy innocent girl they used to know, and make hints about what happened. Others, especially LI, would be surprised, because they know only this more serious, darker Warden, and then they would put all the pieces together and see some things in new light.

[tklivory]

thesnowtigress wrote...

@RagingCyclone - I studied history in university, too, and most of the time I just did not do any of the readings. I would try in the beginning, then I would just get behind eventually. I noticed that most of the professors already lectured about what was in the readings, so I slacked off lol. GRR Martin takes patience to read, lol. He tends to go off on long tangents, but that's how he explains the world I guess. The first three books are the best in my opinion. I think the reason I couldn't get into HP and Tolkien is because when I tried to read them, I wasn't into fantasy. But I still don't want to try again now anyway lol.

@tklivory - I have an Elizabeth Moon book that I have yet to read. "The Deed of Paksenarrion" - is it worth it? It's been sitting on my shelf for a while now. As for your fic, I think it would be interesting to see the AU origin straight away... but then again it might take away some mystery?

I think I can safely say that the Deed of Paksenarrion is the book most responsible for me emerging sane from my middle school years.  Paksenarrion is one of my all-time favorite female characters ever written in a fantasy setting: she's smart, tough, imperfect, overconfident (which definitely bites her in the ass), interested in fighting without being butch, and makes mistakes and good decisions because she is written to be a *real person*.  Elizabeth Moon was in the military, and the realism (for all that it is fantasy) is extremely effective in the book.

Soooo, yes: I would highly recommend it.   It *is* high fantasy, so be prepared if you normally don't like high fantasy, but not a single person launches into a quatrainal eulogy for someone who died 50 pages ago, so you're safe from that.

And Tolkien is definitely not for everybody.  I have a rabid fantasy friend who can't stand him because of 'all the poetry."  If you like humor, though, I recommend Terry Pratchett.  Just read *Guards, Guards* first and don't try to read him in the order the books were written.

*still torn about Blight fic beginning*  I think I'll just write 3 different beginngs, write through all of Ostagar to Lothering, then find a beta and ask their opinion.  *sigh* 

[tklivory]

@ Rage - I loved the original Dune series because of the Islamic undertones (I love history, ever since I read Shogun in the first grade... Have I mentioned I'm a book nut?) and I loved the incorporation of all the different elements of Buddha and tantric self-control in the Bene Gesserit philosophy as well. (It was kind of funny, when I went to see the David Lynch "Dune" movie: I was this little 10 year old girl explaining to her older siblings and parents just what the hell was going on and criticizing it all in one go. At one point, the person sitting in front of us turned around and asked me questions about the movie because they had gone to the bathroom and lost track of the plot, so I told them. Luckily no one seemed to mind... Ah, memories...)

@ Kildi - One concept I have of an 'in medias res' beginning is to actually start with her unconscious after she drinks the potion at the Joining and before she recovers it from Ostagar and possibly have dream flashbacks that mix reality with horror... That way she could 'remember' in front of the readers, but the reader wouldn't know everything yet... Or even have it be in Flemeth's hut, first night after Lothering... Although her first meeting with Leliana is very important because Leliana is her first...

Awww, spoilers.

Modifié par tklivory, 08 décembre 2011 - 11:23 .

[thesnowtigress]

Paks seems really interesting now. I will read Deed of Paksennarion next, after I finish my current book, and then I plan to pick up Gaider's new book.

And thanks for mentioning "media res", lol, I didn't know the term for the kind of story I was writing. lol.I like Klidi's idea, by the way, though I think that might be difficult to pull off.

[maxernst]

I loved Tolkien when I was younger--started reading about 6 or 7. I actually now think the Hobbit is his best book, because it's a tightly focused adventure story. I find the Fellowship of the Ring is terrific once it gets started (in Bree) but the rest of LOTR drags in places. Also, as an adult I find his romanticization of pre-Industrial English society and its rigid class hierarchy bothers me.

I loved the first three books of Dune. God-Emperor should have been titled "Godawful of Dune"; it's just painfully dull.

I've kind of fallen out of love with ASOIAF. It's not the darkness of it--I'm a Donaldson fan, after all. But I haven't picked up a Dance With Dragons yet because by the time I finished A Feast for Crows, I didn't know what the story was about any more. He's a good writer and writes vivid characters with distinctive voices,but the story's strands have drifted too far apart for me. My tastes seem to run counter to the trend in modern fantasy, with the ever more epic and complicated storylines. I'd rather read a more intimate story.

[Tryynity]

@ where to start your story - I have been thinking more about this today.

- With my blight fic I started with both Dalish & Antivan beginnings. I thought about my reasons and I think it was because Kyerra's history and Zevran's history was important in the laying down of their intial characters - to illustrate the changes they both go through. I chose to do it start to finish like more or an historical recording of their story. Maybe oneday if I like the results I will write the prequels for both characters.  I plan to flash back some of Zevran's storys at different points.

-The video I made of the story however starts in the present (Dalish Wedding) and flashes back to just their meeting, the ongoing story of how they got there, then flashes back to the present (Dalish Wedding kiss). Why? Because that time I was focusing on the fantasy wedding/love story of Kyerra & Zevran.

-Another fic I am thinking about is Maz Hawke - hers will be done much differently. It will start in the present and reflect back through her diary entries, then back to the present and back again. I chose diary entries because I want to do first person, but they can be boring, so the back and forth thing breaks it up.


PS - @ TK I really like your idea of your character losing its memory - because its different and I think will be very entertaining for a reader, especially those that have read the story sooooo many times.
PLUS I love uniqueness - almost to a fault LOL
AND I have learned a new term 'in medias res' LOL 

Modifié par Tryynity, 09 décembre 2011 - 07:55 .

[tklivory]

I like the concept of the diary and mixing tenses (but then you already knew that about me), but especially for Maz Hawke from DA2. Whereas the time flow in Dragon Age is very linear, with gaps in time glossed over quickly (like walking on the map), time in DA2 is very distinct and marked by huge gaps. I like the difference, and that will be a good practice for writing in addition to being an interesting approach to telling the story.

[Tryynity]

@ TK - Thank you

My first update for this thread is for -  Zevran's Symphony Part 1 ERASE- - - Chapter 10 - Redcliffe Village (yes I finally settled on it).

I dont think I need any warnings - no sex, no violence, no fluff, maybe a boring warning is warranted. 
So Rated PG  &   for boring themes, &   for grammar hazzards

Beware I am a learner writer & this is unbetaed so far - comments - concrit most welcome.

Modifié par Tryynity, 09 décembre 2011 - 08:18 .