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Elves Design Poll results: DA:O Elves 51%, DA2 Elves 34%


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#1
Marvin_Arnold

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Poll has been up for two weeks now, and with the percentages having been stable over the past number of days, here are the results. DA:O elves leading comfortably by 17% over DA2.

Despite being far from representative, like any other poll on social.bioware, with over 370 votes, poll participation was high compared to other polls. (The highest ever participation in a DA related poll was "Your set on DA2 - How do you feel about boycotting DA2 so far?" from one year ago, with 1945 votes. The average vote count for a poll on social.bioware is around 60.)


I have to say I'm surprised; judging from discussion activity, one might have thought the preferences were at least equal. Not that I complain...

Image IPB

Since devs have been fiercely defending every "design choice" introduced in DA2, I don't expect them running to the drawing board now in order to make the elves look realistic again... ;):D:whistle:

Modifié par Marvin_Arnold, 03 décembre 2011 - 10:32 .


#2
thats1evildude

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Eh. The substantial chunk of "on the fence" votes suggests the results are closer than you think. At the very least, it suggests that a good portion of the fanbase doesn't care one way or the other, which isn't the same as "
prefering" the old design.

Myself, I voted "on the fence" because I wasn't sure how my CE Warden would look in the new style. But I don't mind the way DA2 elves look now, and if they'd always looked that way, I wouldn't be begging BW to change them.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 02 décembre 2011 - 03:23 .


#3
Jerrybnsn

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As ugly as the DA2 elves are, let's be thankful that they are not as ugly as the Skyrim elves. {shudders}

#4
Marvin_Arnold

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thats1evildude wrote...

Eh. The substantial chunk of "on the fence" votes suggests the results are closer than you think.

How's that? 51% are 51%. 34% are 34%. A 17% margin is a statistically more than safe margin. An (absolute) majority is a majority.

You can't count the 14% undecided toward any of the options. I myself never claimed they "hated" the new design.

I just compare 51 to 34.

Modifié par Marvin_Arnold, 02 décembre 2011 - 11:34 .


#5
Tom12

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 The only thing i hope for is that bioware actually sees this... 

#6
thats1evildude

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My point is that you can't really say the majority of the fanbase favours the DAO design because at least 15 per cent of the voters said they didn't care one way or another.

What you've shown is that half of the fanbase (well, half of the 300-odd people who voted) either prefers the DA2 design change or is ambivalent to it.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 02 décembre 2011 - 11:43 .


#7
Gibb_Shepard

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Jerrybnsn wrote...

As ugly as the DA2 elves are, let's be thankful that they are not as ugly as the Skyrim elves. {shudders}


The bloody races should not be measured in attractiveness to gauge quaility for god sake. Skyrim elves are terrific, they are original and have a great artstyle about them. In DA2, they're just bad. Not because they are ugly, but just look at the diffrence in detail between a Skyrim elf and a DA2 elf. Far more effort needs to be put into the design of Dragon Age elves, if BW insist on originality.

Though if BW do want to corroborate with previously established law, the elves should be attractive, so Skyrim elves nor DA2 elves fit that description.

#8
Marvin_Arnold

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They might see it, but they are very proud and fiercely defensive of everything they changed in DA2, especially design-wise, so don't hold your breath...

thats1evildude wrote:
...and if they'd always looked that way, I wouldn't be begging BW to change them.

Yes, but history doesn't know "if".

They haven't always looked that way, they clash with the overall design of DA2 as well as with DA lore, and aren't in any way "unique". In fact, they look like standard Japanese anime elves. Only that in Japanese animation, humans don't look that different from them again. If you do Western RPG, you do WRPG. If you don Japanese RPG, you do JRPG. These two don't mix well.

Ah, but this has been discussed ad nauseam and I'm not getting dragged into it again...

thats1evildude wrote...
What you've shown is that half of the fanbase (well, half of the 300-odd people who voted) either prefers the DA2 design change or is ambivalent to it.

No, by your reasoning I've shown that 66% prefer the old look or are ambivalent towards it and only 34% prefer the new look.

See how flawed your reasoning is?

Modifié par Marvin_Arnold, 03 décembre 2011 - 10:11 .


#9
Plaintiff

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You want them to make the elves look more "realisitic" again?

I'm curious; what does a REAL elf look like?

#10
Tom12

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Plaintiff wrote...

You want them to make the elves look more "realisitic" again?

I'm curious; what does a REAL elf look like?


Image IPB
here this is a real elf :wub:
you can also read this here, i read it, its pretty interesting 
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elves

#11
Plaintiff

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Tom12 wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

You want them to make the elves look more "realisitic" again?

I'm curious; what does a REAL elf look like?


Image IPB
here this is a real elf :wub:
you can also read this here, i read it, its pretty interesting 
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elves

I think you kind of missed my point.

#12
Jerrybnsn

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Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Jerrybnsn wrote...

As ugly as the DA2 elves are, let's be thankful that they are not as ugly as the Skyrim elves. {shudders}


The bloody races should not be measured in attractiveness to gauge quaility for god sake. Skyrim elves are terrific, they are original and have a great artstyle about them.


It's cutting into my elvish fetish.  There, I said it. 

#13
Tom12

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Plaintiff wrote...

I think you kind of missed my point.

huh you were being sarcastic? i hate it when i cant tell if someones sarcastic :bandit:

#14
Gibb_Shepard

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Tom12 wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

I think you kind of missed my point.

huh you were being sarcastic? i hate it when i cant tell if someones sarcastic :bandit:


There's no such thing as a defined elf, as they are not real and are the product of man's imagination. So it's impossible to guage what a "Real" elf looks like. But honestly, Tolkien elves are viewed as the core design for an elf, which Iorveth is, so i guess you're somewhat right.

I honestly prefer traditional elves myself, such as TW2 elves, but if art departments wish to make a more original elf, they damn well better put some effort into it otherwise you end up with DA2 elves. 

#15
Plaintiff

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Tom12 wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

I think you kind of missed my point.

huh you were being sarcastic? i hate it when i cant tell if someones sarcastic :bandit:

My point is that elves aren't real, and that there are mutiple interpretations of them in folklore and literature. It wouldn't matter if the Dragon Age elves had C'thulhu-style mouth tentacles, nobody has any grounds to argue that elves don't have mouth tentacles.

If people don't like the new look, that's their call. But using a word like "realistic" in this argument is silly.

I like that the elves in Dragon Age are more distinct from humans. In a world where they're consistently persecuted, it makes sense that they would look markedly different. Pointy ears on their own are easily hidden.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 02 décembre 2011 - 01:30 .


#16
Tom12

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By realistic he means, how most people would be describing them to be, if someone would ask you how a dwarf would look, the first thing that comes to mind would be short human+beard. the same goes for the elves, the majority of the people would describe you the tolkien elves, or the christmas elves (which would be so badass in a game lol)

Modifié par Tom12, 02 décembre 2011 - 01:49 .


#17
Jerrybnsn

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Tom12 wrote...

 or the christmas elves (which would be so badass in a game lol)


And he was a jolly, old elf.  Do I sense a knew dlc coming?

:ph34r:[broken image tag removed]:ph34r:

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 02 décembre 2011 - 05:41 .


#18
Salaya

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 It surprises me -reading comments on BW forums, one could think that fans actually liked the "new" elves-. Probably, it's just that they do a lot of noise, trying to defend one of the worst "faces" of the new art direction. 

Not that the poll is significant in the large scope of things, but attending just to it, it reveals that a majority dislikes the new design -even taking the undecided votes and adding them to the "I like it" ones, new elves still are mainly disliked. 

I'm one of the fans that strongly dislikes the new elves. Along with the darkspawn, they are the worst arts decisions DA2 team made regarding redesign. In elves case, I find the head proportion -especially the nose- to be extremely annoying. Let's hope Bioware takes note of the critics and steps back from the controversial decisions. Right now, the only way to play the game without seeing ugly elves is using mods :(

#19
Lynata

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thats1evildude wrote...
My point is that you can't really say the majority of the fanbase favours the DAO design because at least 15 per cent of the voters said they didn't care one way or another.

I don't think that matters? The "classic style" supporters are still the majority, given that the DA2 advocates as well as those people on the fence are clearly both minorities.

Not that this poll should be seen as a definitively representative opinion of the entirety of Dragon Age players as a whole, but for what it is, the results really do not leave much room to debate.

Plaintiff wrote...
It wouldn't matter if the Dragon Age elves had C'thulhu-style mouth tentacles, nobody has any grounds to argue that elves don't have mouth tentacles.

Of course they have grounds to argue. If you want to make an entirely new race that is nothing like an established cliché, fine - but in that case don't go and give them the same name, thus obviously building on and raising expectations.

It would be equally silly to have a race called "humans" who walk on all fours and have red fur and eight eyes.

Or three meter dwarves. You know, to make them "more unique".

Modifié par Lynata, 02 décembre 2011 - 02:25 .


#20
King Cousland

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The DA:O elves were too human, but the DAII elves weren't an improvement. Sure, they were distinct from other races, but they also looked like fish people/Na'vi. There's ways to make them distinct without exaggerating features massively. Make the ears smaller for a start (I felt like they'd jumped out of Jak and Daxter), make the features more...soft, give them fair skin and feline-like eyes with vibrant colours.

#21
FlyinElk212

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Hmmm.

I mean, Bioware HAS shown that it is capable of making aesthetically great =looking elves in Dragon Age 2. Heck, look at Merrill and Fenris and you don't really have to go further.

However, all of the "background" elves look awful, as do some NPC elves. That said, I don't see that to be too different of ANYTHING when it comes to Dragon Age 2: a game where the little things were rushed, and the onloy aspects that seemed to get any sort of proper development were the main party characters.

#22
Plaintiff

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Lynata wrote...
Of course they have grounds to argue. If you want to make an entirely new race that is nothing like an established cliché, fine - but in that case don't go and give them the same name, thus obviously building on and raising expectations.

What expectations are these, exactly? Folklore regarding the appearance of elves varies widely, just across Europe. In fact, Tolkien's elves (I assume that's what you mean, since most contemporary fantasy copies his vision significantly) are more inspired by the Aesir, or the gods of Norse mythology, than they are by actual elves as they were envisioned prior to his writings. Speaking factually, Enid Blyton's elves are truer to original folklore than Tolkien's ever were.


It would be equally silly to have a race called "humans" who walk on all fours and have red fur and eight eyes.

That's not an equivalent scenario at all. You can make a case for what humans look like because humans actually exist, they aren't just an "established cliche".


Or three meter dwarves. You know, to make them "more unique".

I see nothing wrong with that. Particularly in Dragon Age, where dwarven tunnels are very spacious. A three-meter dwarf could fit easily. They might have to duck through doorways, I suppose, since those are only tall enough to accomdate humans of average height.

If someone altered a fantasy creature to the point where it was completely irrelevant to the thing it claimed inspiration from, then that might be a case. But to argue that Bioware's elves aren't "real elves" is particularly moronic; the changes aren't even that drastic, mostly only to do with their faces. They still maintain a bazillion of the other cliches that Tolkien establised.

My only issue is that they don't wear shoes, but that's because I think feet are gross and it has no bearing on their status as "elves".

Modifié par Plaintiff, 02 décembre 2011 - 04:00 .


#23
puppy maclove

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Tom12 wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

You want them to make the elves look more "realisitic" again?

I'm curious; what does a REAL elf look like?


Image IPB
here this is a real elf :wub:
you can also read this here, i read it, its pretty interesting 
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elves



Wow, TW2 really does really put DA2 to shame in the "Style" & graphics department.... ( and in general too). How can BW continue to defend their decisions when they are so avergae compared to other leading RPG's?

#24
Plaintiff

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jlmaclachlan wrote...

Tom12 wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

You want them to make the elves look more "realisitic" again?

I'm curious; what does a REAL elf look like?


Image IPB
here this is a real elf :wub:
you can also read this here, i read it, its pretty interesting 
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elves



Wow, TW2 really does really put DA2 to shame in the "Style" & graphics department.... ( and in general too). How can BW continue to defend their decisions when they are so avergae compared to other leading RPG's?



The same way everyone else does, I imagine. Bioware did what it wanted to and it shouldn't have to apologize for that. The elf redesigns were released long before the game came out. People had plenty of fair warning and those who bought the game anyway don't really have the grounds to get butthurt about it now.

I couldn't care less how elves look, elves as a concept are tired and played out anyway, and I highly doubt that The Witcher does more to innovate them than Dragon Age has. Trying to be different is never a mistake, there's far more to be gained from taking risks than playing it safe, which is what TW2 did.

Not to mention TW2 is based on a series of books. It has little to no options regarding art direction because the general appearance is already dictated by the previous media they are adapting (presuming they remain faithful to the source material). I don't see why that's a particularly good thing. If I were a game developer, I would want the freedom Bioware has, to break out of the mould and do my own thing.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 02 décembre 2011 - 04:41 .


#25
tmp7704

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Plaintiff wrote...

Not to mention TW2 is based on a series of books. It has little to no options regarding art direction because the general appearance is already dictated by the previous media they are adapting (presuming they remain faithful to the source material). I don't see why that's a particularly good thing. If I were a game developer, I would want the freedom Bioware has, to break out of the mould and do my own thing.

The Witcher books don't define the world visuals, these are left very much to the reader's imagination. About the only thing which does get defined to some extent, are facial/body features of the important characters.

Modifié par tmp7704, 02 décembre 2011 - 05:07 .