262 réponses à ce sujet

[Salaya]

Plaintiff wrote...

...

I couldn't care less how elves look, elves as a concept are tired and played out anyway, and I highly doubt that The Witcher does more to innovate them than Dragon Age has. Trying to be different is never a mistake, there's far more to be gained from taking risks than playing it safe, which is what TW2 did.

...

.

I agree with many things you say, especially about TW2 (and the franchise in general). 

But I'm afraid it's not true that trying to be different is always a direct-win situation. If taking risks wasn't a risky thing to do, well, it should be called "Taking the safest route" ; the contrary for playing it safe.  Many things could be gained by experimenting, but precisely because the chances of failure are greater. I mean... it's common logic

But apart from that -I think DA2 had enough mixed reception to assume that the risks taken by the dev team were a failure. As I always say, I understand perfectly that some of you liked the game, I see some good things on it; but unfortunatelly, the overall feeling from critics and players was poor.

DA2 tries to do some things different, yes; but to do that, uses tons of clichès and hack-and-slash cloned gameplay methods (or thats what I feel anyway). I really think that DA2 proves that trying to experiment is not always a great idea  

[Jerrybnsn]

Saying the elf design should move towards "realism" just doesn't fit for me, either. As Plantiff was saying, what is a "real" elf. There are many different folklores on what elves are to look like. I think that the elf design is all about attractiveness, which can be subjective, I know. But dang, the DA2 elves were designed to look like goat-people.

[Tom12]

Plaintiff wrote...

If I were a game developer, I would want the freedom Bioware has, to break out of the mould and do my own thing.

well they did that with da2 and we saw what we got from that <_< i would rather like traditional elves, other then that what else are they going to look like ? Of course they are going to look like humans, They have 2 eyes 1 nose 1 mouth etc.... i simply just dont understand how else they should look like.. And by making them ugly they wont get more unique because skyrim has already its fugly elves and i would rather like them to stay in there.

Modifié par Tom12, 02 décembre 2011 - 05:35 .

[puppy maclove]

Plaintiff wrote...

jlmaclachlan wrote...

Tom12 wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

You want them to make the elves look more "realisitic" again?

I'm curious; what does a REAL elf look like?

here this is a real elf 
you can also read this here, i read it, its pretty interesting 
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elves

Wow, TW2 really does really put DA2 to shame in the "Style" & graphics department.... ( and in general too). How can BW continue to defend their decisions when they are so avergae compared to other leading RPG's?

The same way everyone else does, I imagine. Bioware did what it wanted to and it shouldn't have to apologize for that. The elf redesigns were released long before the game came out. People had plenty of fair warning and those who bought the game anyway don't really have the grounds to get butthurt about it now.

I couldn't care less how elves look, elves as a concept are tired and played out anyway, and I highly doubt that The Witcher does more to innovate them than Dragon Age has. Trying to be different is never a mistake, there's far more to be gained from taking risks than playing it safe, which is what TW2 did.

Not to mention TW2 is based on a series of books. It has little to no options regarding art direction because the general appearance is already dictated by the previous media they are adapting (presuming they remain faithful to the source material). I don't see why that's a particularly good thing. If I were a game developer, I would want the freedom Bioware has, to break out of the mould and do my own thing.

Bioware does not have freedom, ask EA... thats why we got DA2. 

Also, how did TW2 play it safe, they took thier time and obssessed over the level of finish and polish, at the risk of over extending themselves. I was really impressed at the detail and enviroments in TW2. The care CD project put in shows that they respect their product and their fans. 

Bioware were lazy with  their enviroments and the overall style looked like it had too many people where involved.

Having a rubbish art direction is not innovation, its just a bad art direction. Sorry bud.

[Jerrybnsn]

I think this was what Bioware was trying to go for.  An earlier version of an elf from the Baldur's Gate series.  But she's done more towards the anime style and trying to transpose this to a more realism style that the game has didn't work out liked they hope, but there wasn't much time to improve it.

[yusuf060297]

its funny how they choose to take the easier way by making them more ugly instead of trying by making them more beautiful/majestic then we ever saw in any game. They already had a bloody history in dao and it was said in the lore that they are beautiful and attractive, and from their looks (in dao) it reminded me how majestic they once were, but! in da2 their history and their looks didnt convince me that those ugly and dumb people made a majestic city called arlathan or that they had once a great knowledge of magic, it didnt really convince me

i became an elf freak by playing dao and i ended up drawing several pictures of them (Its my hobby to paint) But then after i saw the elves from da2 i was really but really shoked because of how they looked. My eyes hurt just by looking at them and i ended up searching the web for several hours for the right elf mods.

Modifié par yusuf060297, 02 décembre 2011 - 06:16 .

[Jerrybnsn]

You know, Felica Day's elf character looks more human looking, like Origins' elf design. Not so much in the ears. Maybe it's the way DAIII will go. I'll be happy with that.

[yusuf060297]

@ jerrybnsn the picture you show is actually nice but if you imagine her in the game in 3d her face would actually imo look somehow ugly, sideways and so, besides if they still will use their crappy engine they wont, never get so great looking hair but if thats the way they are trying to go to i would be happy, tallis looked also a bit better but still, they have got much work to do

Modifié par yusuf060297, 02 décembre 2011 - 06:09 .

[RagingCyclone]

Did I miss a new Star Trek game?  This looks like one of Spock's anscestors.



Seriously though I can understand what the devs are trying to accomplish. Where I have said before I like the new facial design with the old engine (DA2's is not really face friendly for any race, take away the hair and makeup and all human females have 2 basic looks...it's that bad) But going to a design that is so prevelant like in TW2 (and thus also Star Trek) isn't a good direction either. So the question is what elf design would look good yet distinctive? That is the million dollar question.

[Gunderic]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Jerrybnsn wrote...

As ugly as the DA2 elves are, let's be thankful that they are not as ugly as the Skyrim elves. {shudders}

The bloody races should not be measured in attractiveness to gauge quaility for god sake. Skyrim elves are terrific, they are original and have a great artstyle about them. In DA2, they're just bad. Not because they are ugly, but just look at the diffrence in detail between a Skyrim elf and a DA2 elf. Far more effort needs to be put into the design of Dragon Age elves, if BW insist on originality.

Though if BW do want to corroborate with previously established law, the elves should be attractive, so Skyrim elves nor DA2 elves fit that description.

pretty much this. Elves in Skyrim look alien and weird, and I'm fairly sure that's intended. DA 2 elves look just bad. Not like something that was intended to come off as 'flawed' however, just bad.

[Gunderic]

Plaintiff wrote...

Tom12 wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

You want them to make the elves look more "realisitic" again?

I'm curious; what does a REAL elf look like?

here this is a real elf 
you can also read this here, i read it, its pretty interesting 
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elves

I think you kind of missed my point.

realistic /=/ real

realistic means to have an art style consistent with the look of... well... real life. 

edit: and no, anorexic pale elves with huge eyes and white hair aren't realistic. and no, it's not just 'opinion'.

Modifié par Gunderic, 02 décembre 2011 - 06:31 .

[Gunderic]

jlmaclachlan wrote...

Tom12 wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

You want them to make the elves look more "realisitic" again?

I'm curious; what does a REAL elf look like?

here this is a real elf 
you can also read this here, i read it, its pretty interesting 
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elves

Wow, TW2 really does really put DA2 to shame in the "Style" & graphics department.... ( and in general too). How can BW continue to defend their decisions when they are so avergae compared to other leading RPG's?

Denial + faceroll on the forums.

[Gunderic]

Plaintiff wrote...

jlmaclachlan wrote...

Tom12 wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

You want them to make the elves look more "realisitic" again?

I'm curious; what does a REAL elf look like?

here this is a real elf 
you can also read this here, i read it, its pretty interesting 
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elves

Wow, TW2 really does really put DA2 to shame in the "Style" & graphics department.... ( and in general too). How can BW continue to defend their decisions when they are so avergae compared to other leading RPG's?

The same way everyone else does, I imagine. Bioware did what it wanted to and it shouldn't have to apologize for that. The elf redesigns were released long before the game came out. People had plenty of fair warning and those who bought the game anyway don't really have the grounds to get butthurt about it now.

I couldn't care less how elves look, elves as a concept are tired and played out anyway, and I highly doubt that The Witcher does more to innovate them than Dragon Age has. Trying to be different is never a mistake, there's far more to be gained from taking risks than playing it safe, which is what TW2 did.

Not to mention TW2 is based on a series of books. It has little to no options regarding art direction because the general appearance is already dictated by the previous media they are adapting (presuming they remain faithful to the source material). I don't see why that's a particularly good thing. If I were a game developer, I would want the freedom Bioware has, to break out of the mould and do my own thing.

I'm sure designing Iorveth was so much easier with his high-res textures and physics-utilizing clothing items that aren't just skins attached to a different model.

[Zanallen]

Gunderic wrote...

realistic /=/ real

realistic means to have an art style consistent with the look of... well... real life. 

edit: and no, anorexic pale elves with huge eyes and white hair aren't realistic. and no, it's not just 'opinion'.

What's that now?

[HanErlik]

Zanallen wrote...

Gunderic wrote...

realistic /=/ real

realistic means to have an art style consistent with the look of... well... real life. 

edit: and no, anorexic pale elves with huge eyes and white hair aren't realistic. and no, it's not just 'opinion'.

What's that now?

She doesn't hold a two meter sized great sword with single hand.

[Atakuma]

HanErlik wrote...

She doesn't hold a two meter sized great sword with single hand.

She's not magicaly enhanced with lyrium either.

[HanErlik]

Atakuma wrote...

HanErlik wrote...

She doesn't hold a two meter sized great sword with single hand.

She's not magicaly enhanced with lyrium either.

Yes, every elf is magicaly enhanced.

[jlb524]

The only 'real' elves are Santa's elves.

And they look like this:



duh

[tmp7704]

Zanallen wrote...

What's that now?

Oh nice, someone forced a sandwich into Merrill finally.

[Dave of Canada]

I'M GOING TO MAKE A POLL TOO AND POST IT IN A LOCATION WHERE I'M MORE LIKELY TO GET VOTES THAT SUPPORT MY OPINION.

[Lynata]

Plaintiff wrote...
What expectations are these, exactly? Folklore regarding the appearance of elves varies widely, just across Europe.

The fantasy gaming community isn't too concerned with folklore, and I think you are fully aware of that, too. In fact, I am fairly certain that 99% of all people think of "humans with pointy ears" first when someone drops the name "elf", just like dwarves are short and dragons breathe fire. Yes, all of these are clichés. No, you don't have to like them. But swimming against a trend just to be cool isn't exactly a smart action either. It would be "moronic" to not see this and continue claiming that the community as a whole gives two copper on folklore instead of actual contemporary fantasy. As is also shown by the poll and the reaction of the general public.

Established standards in the genre do exist, for good or for worse - and I don't buy for a second you'd be fond of three meter dwarves. But maybe you simply are one of the few exceptions, though this would still not make you right. Standards are defined by the majority and by convention. Standards were also the reason for Bioware to change the appearance of the elves in the first place, so the studio itself gives the best evidence here.

Modifié par Lynata, 02 décembre 2011 - 08:08 .

[tmp7704]

Dave of Canada wrote...

I'M GOING TO MAKE A POLL TOO AND POST IT IN A LOCATION WHERE I'M MORE LIKELY TO GET VOTES THAT SUPPORT MY OPINION.

Don't forget to claim the people who voted aren't representative of the general audience if the results aren't to your liking.

[hoorayforicecream]

HanErlik wrote...

She doesn't hold a two meter sized great sword with single hand.

You can't lift 8 pounds with one hand?

[xkg]

Dave of Canada wrote...

I'M GOING TO MAKE A POLL TOO AND POST IT IN A LOCATION WHERE I'M MORE LIKELY TO GET VOTES THAT SUPPORT MY OPINION.

Yes because there are far more appropariate places to post a poll about DA2 stuff than da2 forum...

But no problem. Go ahead and do it. I can bet with you that you wont get much different results as long as this poll will be available to everyone.