262 réponses à ce sujet

[Aaleel]

hoorayforicecream wrote...


I'm basing realism on its actual definition. You're confusing the term 'realism' with verisimilitude. Yes, Xewaka, I read what you said and I agree with you. I also think that one should not continue to encourage people to use incorrect terminology, because that becomes silly when one person means one thing, and another means a different one, but they both use the same word.

Internal consistency is what I want. Not realism.

I just want the game to stay within the framework laid out. 

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

jlb524 wrote...

People do hide their 'real reasons' in cases where they don't think it will hold as much sway as "realism".

Because "I think it's fugly" or "I just hate everything about DA2 on principle" doesn't sound as legit of a reason as "it's unrealistic".

Facts, opinions, so and so.

Also, I think the debate's shifted a little bit. The realism argument is on areas like the animations and Sword Wielding, not the Elvish redesign. Or maybe I'm wrong, idk.

Modifié par mrcrusty, 03 décembre 2011 - 12:01 .

[tmp7704]

jlb524 wrote...

People do hide their 'real reasons' in cases where they don't think it will hold as much sway as "realism".

Because "I think it's fugly" or "I just hate everything about DA2 on principle" doesn't sound as legit of a reason as "it's unrealistic".

I can see someone could think that, but since evaluation of what's realistic and what isn't (in fantasy settings especially) also is really just an opinion... well, i suppose at the end of the day it's just something for the receiver to keep on mind.

[Mark of the Dragon]

I can see why people have a problem with others arguing because the elves dont look "relaistic". I mean elves arent real. However I also agree that in some cases there look can be argued. Whether for better or worse elves have been defined in most cultures.Here is a definiton I found:

A supernatural creature of folk tales, typically represented a elusive figure in human form with pointed ears, magical powers, and a capricious nature

I love fantasy. I read lots of fantasy books, play a lot of fantasy games, etc. In most books I have read elves are usually graceful and have a sense of exotic beauty about them. They look similar to humans and usually have some kind of magic. They also tend to be close to Nature. Of course they always have pointed ears. These are just some traits I mention because I have read or seen them used many times. I am not saying they are right or wrong. These are stereotypes and what is expected. While it is true that they arent real there are certain aspects that define an elf. For example an elf is not an elf without pointed ears. There are concepts that people expect nowadays. For example The Elder Scroll does a good job with elves. They have there wood elves which are more traditional elves in tune with nature. Then they have there own dark elves which have the original qualities of elves plus Bethesda's own touches. Its there creation they can do what they want. 

I understand and have no problem with Bioware trying to make there elves stand out however in my personal opinion they do a poor job. To me it just looks like they made a human face and then squashed it. They have pretty mush defined there elves in that typical fantasy genre give or take a few aspects. They didnt need to try so hard to change the appearence of them now. I think they could have made more subtle changes to them and had more success. For example make there eyes more exotic. Some elves in DA2 had awesome eye colors. Make ther eeyes defined with bright or elusive colors that draw attention. Build there body different, they can be a bit shorter then humans with a more sleek defined body. They can still have muscle and definiton but they should be thinner then humans. The could change ears up some, maybe have female ears lay closer to the head while males come out further, kinda like a dominance thing. I wouldnt even mind some beastly qualities like a bit of some pointed fangs, especially for dalish. When you live in nature you have to be strong. Elves are usually considered as nature dwellers so they should look like they can survive in nature. I think Bioware should sepparate the city and dalish elves with similar features to. Dalish would have a more animalistic (beauty/danger) look over the city elves who have lived so long with humans they should look a bit different. They could implement different hair styles. They could try messing with the tint of there skin as well.So many options howver what they did was really a step back.  Like I said it might be my personna lopinion but I think most people will agree that Bioware could do better. I hope if they change anything about their graphics its the elf design.

By the way since Im on the topic Darkspawn could also use a make-over. I dont remember them being so cuddly in DAO.

Modifié par Mark of the Dragon, 02 décembre 2011 - 11:56 .

[billy the squid]

mrcrusty wrote...

In regards to the Elvish issue, I don't really like Dragon Age 2's Elves but I remember seeing a screenshot of Dragon Age 2's redesign within Origins courtesy of tmp and I thought to myself "hey, that's pretty good". So maybe if they switched back to the Origins renderer, Dragon Age 2's had massive problems in some areas. Alistair, for example.

I'd also keep the body models from Origins.

Indeed, those Elves are very nice, the principle and the concept have merit. But, the implementation in DA2 was poor however.

Modifié par billy the squid, 03 décembre 2011 - 12:14 .

[PsychoWARD23]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

As ugly as the DA2 elves are, let's be thankful that they are not as ugly as the Skyrim elves. {shudders}

vs




Sorry, please try again.

Modifié par PsychoWARD23, 03 décembre 2011 - 02:19 .

[TEWR]

PsychoWARD, please don't tell me you honestly expect an old ass woman that's blind to look amazing.

[whykikyouwhy]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

PsychoWARD, please don't tell me you honestly expect an old ass woman that's blind to look amazing.

Let's not disparage the old ass women, hmm? Old (or mature) does not mean one cannot be hawt. (ex - Helen Mirren)

And she may not have the use of her eyes, but I am sure she sees far more than most mortal will ever in the span of their lives.

Modifié par whykikyouwhy, 03 décembre 2011 - 03:10 .

[TEWR]

Mark of the Dragon wrote...

 I think they could have made more subtle changes to them and had more success. For example make there eyes more exotic. Some elves in DA2 had awesome eye colors. Make ther eeyes defined with bright or elusive colors that draw attention.

 
Like you said they already started this. Should they continue to do it? Yup. Should it apply to all elves? I'd like that, but I don't think it needs to happen.

I do however think eye color should match up with hair color in such a way that works.



I think Jethann's biggest problems were that having bright blue eyes and red/orange hair don't mesh very well and just look.... abnormal.

That and I think his clothing made him seem like he had a beer belly.

Build there body different, they can be a bit shorter then humans with a more sleek defined body. They can still have muscle and definiton but they should be thinner then humans.

They did this in DAII. 

The could change ears up some, maybe have female ears lay closer to the head while males come out further, kinda like a dominance thing.

That I could get behind

I wouldnt even mind some beastly qualities like a bit of some pointed fangs, especially for dalish.

No thank you. I'm trying to imagine Fenarel with fangs and it just makes me laugh. 

When you live in nature you have to be strong. Elves are usually considered as nature dwellers so they should look like they can survive in nature. I think Bioware should sepparate the city and dalish elves with similar features to. Dalish would have a more animalistic (beauty/danger) look over the city elves who have lived so long with humans they should look a bit different.

Well they already have tattoos. Perhaps they could have other things that mark them as similar to the Celtic and Native American tribes. 

Like using fur in what they wear.

They could implement different hair styles.

I want hair that is that long. Down to the shoulder blades

Like I said it might be my personna lopinion but I think most people will agree that Bioware could do better. I hope if they change anything about their graphics its the elf design.

Of course, there's always room for improvement for pretty much everything. I however like the DAII style Elves and how they look in DAO's art style.

By the way since Im on the topic Darkspawn could also use a make-over. I dont remember them being so cuddly in DAO.

I'm reminded of my old thread that called the Darkspawn cuddly.

Good times.

And god yes do I agree on the Darkspawn needing a redesign.


hmmm... I might approve of the new Hurlocks, but only if they had these traits:

1) More bloody, dirty, tainted, and less shiny white
2) Had different noses (some being torn or ripped), and have some who have the original Hurlock type nose
3) wore armor that actually looks like the original Darkspawn armor, or something that looks half-assed.
4) had sharp teeth again
5) had monstrous tattoos again
6) lose their hair. That made them look more like Uruk-Hai for me, so the hair needs to go.
7) appeared in high level of detail on all platforms.
8) The Hurlock Emissaries -- since I remember Bioware saying all we would see in DAII's base game were Hurlocks and Ogres -- need to drop the S&M gear on the face and the pointy ears.

and to go even further

For Ogres, they need:

1) Less mushed up face
2) Completely gray or completely purple
3) Soulless eyes
4) A return to the DAO teeth that they had. There is a difference between the two sets of teeth



For Genlocks:

1) Tinker around with the color scheme. Most people would like them to not be beige. Me? I couldn't care less about their color. I love the new design. The Genlocks in Origins were the only ones that needed an overhaul, and the new design works
2) Make the Genlock Alphas taller than regular Genlocks like they are now, but smaller than Hurlock Grunts. Or just make the Hurlock grunts taller than the Alphas, and the Hurlock Alphas are also given a height boost.
3) Bring back Genlock Emissaries. Since the Darkspawn use the taint in their bodies to use magic -- per a DG post somewhere on here I believe -- there's no issue with Genlock Emissaries.


For Shrieks:

1) a return to the DAO style (color scheme and sharp teeth included)
2) drop the protrusions from the old style
3) move the ears down
4) give them a more elf-like body. Looking at the old design, they seem to have pointed feet, while the new design has more normal-esque feet.
5) make their heads more narrow and have less of a giant forehead.
6) Give us some Shriek Emissaries.

[TEWR]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

PsychoWARD, please don't tell me you honestly expect an old ass woman that's blind to look amazing.

Let's not disparage the old ass women, hmm? Old (or mature) does not mean one cannot be hawt. (ex - Helen Mirren)

Sorry. It was simply a description -- albeit a poor one that does come off as insulting -- and not something meant as an insult.

Also, it's not so much that old women can't be hot. They can. It's that expecting all old women to be hot is putting expectations up too high.

Sure you can find a hotter old woman (like Flemeth! ). But this isn't something that happens a lot so people shouldn't be surprised if an old woman looks old and isn't the best looking woman out there.

And she may not have the use of her eyes, but I am sure she sees far more than most mortal will ever in the span of their lives.

Oh I definitely know that. When you lose one sense, the others -- sometimes even those attuned to the supernatural -- are heightened.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 03 décembre 2011 - 03:23 .

[TEWR]

*deleted since it's in my previous post now*

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 03 décembre 2011 - 03:31 .

[Nefla]

Realistic or unrealistic, DA2 elves are just plain hideous to me. It looks like they were going for either a JRPG direction where the characters are super skinny with huge eyes (and yet the JRPG characters are at least attractive) or trying to copy the look of the Na'vi (which were obviously done with a lot more effort). The huge eyes seem like something tacked on to try and lure an anime/JRPG crowd and were off-putting for me. What I hated the most though was how skinny elves were in DA2 and how narrow their shoulders were compared to their heads. It just looks odd and wrong, especially considering they have normal sized necks. It looks like they laid on their sides as a steamroller ran them over. I romanced Merril one time even though I hate her, since I wanted to try all the options and when she takes off her clothes and is in that weird striped granny bathing suit thing I was just like "argh, kill it with fire!" you can really see how extremely skinny and deformed they are. Skyrim elves are ugly too, but with effort you can make a good looking character and they just look alien and strange rather than wrong and deformed.

I'm actually glad that you never get to see Fenris without a shirt since that would ruin the illusion that there are normal shoulders under those feathers and not a smushed freaky insect thing.

[whykikyouwhy]

No offense was taken...I merely wanted to point out that "old ass woman" could equal "hawt."

Though an "old ass" (as in jackass, the animal) may be less likely to equal that adjective of sexyness.

[Mr.House]

Not everyone in the game should be hot.

[Mr.House]

liesandpropaganda wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I think Jethann's biggest problems were that having bright blue eyes and red/orange hair don't mesh very well and just look.... abnormal.

you take that back, it's the best combination

Hawt.

[Aaleel]

I just thought that the elves were way too thin, which made other things such as their head look out of proportion.  Then the whole no shoes thing. 

You have on a full suit of chainmail, but you're barefoot??

Then some of the eye colors were just too much, especially when you combine the colors with how big the eyes were. 

Then I thought the devs defeated the purpose of trying to make the elves and other races unique by coping out and making the main characters from other races look more human.  Merrill and Fenris did not look like the rest of the elves, and Varric did not look like the rest of the dwarves. 

[TEWR]

I'm actually glad that you never get to see Fenris without a shirt since that would ruin the illusion that there are normal shoulders under those feathers and not a smushed freaky insect thing.

http://www.youtube.c...WX5L3l_A#t=619s

You can see a DAII style elf without a shirt and he has normal shoulders.

[TEWR]

Aaleel wrote...

I just thought that the elves were way too thin, which made other things such as their head look out of proportion.  Then the whole no shoes thing. 

You have on a full suit of chainmail, but you're barefoot??

explanation in game is possibly given, depending on Merrill's context:

• Sebastian: You know, people generally wear shoes to this sort of affair.
• Merrill: Really? What a strange custom.
• Merrill: Among the Dalish, it is a mortal insult to cover your toenails in the presence of a superior.
• Sebastian: You're kidding.
• Merrill: (Hums)
• Sebastian: She's kidding, right?

Then I thought the devs defeated the purpose of trying to make the elves and other races unique by coping out and making the main characters from other races look more human.  Merrill and Fenris did not look like the rest of the elves, and Varric did not look like the rest of the dwarves. 

This makes no sense. They're as Elven -- and for Varric he's just as Dwarven -- as anyone else from their respective race.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Am I the only one who doesn't give a flying gnome about this? Because both versions looked just right.

[Mr.House]

Clearly all dwarves must have beards or they are not dwarves.....

Modifié par Mr.House, 03 décembre 2011 - 03:58 .

[Aaleel]

Well as far as Merrill, for the most part I found elves to have long faces, that were narrower than humans, and then Merrill had a face that was shorter and wider from what I could see.

Edit: And as far as the banter, they must have just started that custom in DA2, because Dalish elves did not do this in Origins.  You know with it being the same clan and all.

Modifié par Aaleel, 03 décembre 2011 - 04:21 .

[FieryDove]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

PsychoWARD, please don't tell me you honestly expect an old ass woman that's blind to look amazing.

I don't know what Psychoward disliked...however.

That elf is one of the halla head ones. Make them all that way or...don't do it. If the developers like that design they need proper cohesive aesthetics throughout the game world (And lore would be nice but heh).

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...



I want hair that is that long. Down to the shoulder blades

Not just the hair...I want...all of that.  lol

[MagmaSaiyan]

Mr.House wrote...

Clearly all dwarves must have beards or they are not dwarves.....

well Varric must of hated his beard and shaved it off(then placed it on his chest:P), since hes more of a surface dwarf, arent there some in Orzammar that dont have beards?

[addiction21]

Mr.House wrote...

Clearly all dwarves must have beards or they are not dwarves.....

And drunk. Dont forget that.