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[Dreadwing 67]

Il Divo wrote...

CptData wrote...

ME2 didn't focus on "character relationships". ME1 did that far better, far more authentic and HAD a story.

The entire point of ME2's conversations and loyalty missions was to dive into those characters and to explore "what makes them tick". ME1's characters were probably Bioware's worst cast given examples like Tali and Kaidan, who don't develop or do much of anything. ME2 did it substantially better....with a cast of twelve characters and substantially better cinematic presentation.

We got to talk to them after the missions......thats the only reason we hear people say that whether they know it or not.

[CrazyRah]

Oh dear.. not far from getting thrown out of class thanks to OP. This is just hilarious and stupid.

[Il Divo]

IntoTheDarkness wrote...

I am not freaking homophobic. I have clear reasons to hate homosexual Shepard. I didn't mind homosexuals in DA2.

1. inconsistency. homosexuality never mentioned in 1,2 series.

I hear this one all the time and unfortunately it's one of the weaker arguments against homosexuality. Let me give you a fun example:

Imagine that in Mass Effect 3 that Commander Shepard claims that he enjoys eating apples. Does the fact that he says this in ME3 make it inconsistent with the first two installments?

Substitute in homosexuality for apples. Shepard, at no point in the series, is forced to declare his/her sexual preference to anyone. As such, any inconsistency is entirely on the part of the player, not the game.

2. character identity. too much freedom in character personality forces attenuation of the character.

People play RPGs precisely for the ability to have freedom in character personality. Shepard's goal in this series is stop the Reapers. Homosexuality won't harm/help that goal any more than heterosexuality will.

3. irrelevancy. It's not important if Shepard is gay or lesbian or whatever when the entire human race is upon the impending annihilation.

So stop calling me homophobic at least.

This excuse never stopped in previous Bioware games, or ME1, all of which focused on "saving the world". I can sympathize with the desire to get rid of romances in future games, but given what both ME1 and ME2 allowed, you're not going to find many people sympathetic to your claims that ME3 should have less romance.

[Il Divo]

Dreadwing 67 wrote...

We got to talk to them after the missions......thats the only reason we hear people say that whether they know it or not.

True, and "character relationships" is somewhat vague. I do think ME2 did not have enough interaction between party members, but I assume the OP's point was that ME2 focused too much on character development, ala loyalty missions.

Modifié par Il Divo, 02 décembre 2011 - 02:33 .

[Slayer299]

n/m damned stupid formatting....

Modifié par Slayer299, 02 décembre 2011 - 02:33 .

[Drinking Shepard]

IntoTheDarkness wrote...


ME3 = Gay Shepard's foolish agony of his sexual identity. COD space version.

Shep's homosexuality is one of the many features and it is totally optional. And ME 3 is above all about saving the Galaxy, romance has always been a very nice but non-essential part of the game. This fact you intentionally ignored because you're just another homophobic dude who has nothing against gays.

[Dreadwing 67]

Il Divo wrote...

Dreadwing 67 wrote...

We got to talk to them after the missions......thats the only reason we hear people say that whether they know it or not.

True, and "character relationships" is somewhat vague. I do think ME2 did not have enough interaction between party members, but I assume the OP's point was that ME2 focused too much on character development, ala loyalty missions.

Many "people" forget that almost every mission expanded upon the universe in some way.
Grunt - Krogan
Moridin - Genphage
Tali - Quarian Conflict
Legion - HUGE insight into the geth
Thane - Hanar/Drell
Jacob - ..........Prize

Modifié par Dreadwing 67, 02 décembre 2011 - 02:36 .

[vimpel_zocom]

IntoTheDarkness wrote...




(i am critical in this writing but there is are spoilers. Plz don't cloe it.)





ME = EPIC SPACE OPERA.
ME2 = friends recruiting melodrama. Fun to play, nothing memorable.
ME3 = Gay Shepard's foolish agony of his sexual identity. COD space version.

(I have nothing against the homosexual. I only hate that Shepard has time to spare for his sexual itentity crisis in the galaxy's dire situation.)





Pretty much sums up how I feel about Mass Effect Trilogy.

ME3 will surely be a fun game to play, but it won't be regarded as one of 'epic RPGs' because ME is no longer a RPG game since ME2. With leaked infos, Bioware has already revealed that they have no intention of making this a story oriented game.

One example of Bioware's misdoing is homosexual shepard.

Disclaimer: I'm not against homosexuals at all. In real life, I support the same-sex marriage. But I'm against the fact that Bioware is putting in something that is neither relevant or consistant from previous series. The Alliance is a hostile military organization that decided to open a full-scale war agaisnt the very first alien they encountered(and was attacked by.) Their political stance is definately conservatitve and militarism as seen with their racism and human centric attitude in ME2. I doubt if stubburn-conservative alliance have not descriminated Shepard before he became famous.

Moreover, this kind of work only attenuate a character's characteristic, making Shepard even more dull than he is now. Can you think of an image when I ask you who the protagonist of Oblivion is? No. it's because the game allowed too much freedom in character creation that there is no speicific protagonist.

Likewise, homosexual Shepard will only restrict the variety of dialogues Shepard can use and the personalities he can display.



Bioware doesn't care at all if stories and settings in ME3 make any sense as long as they can sell it to COD infected casual gamers. ME3 would have been so much more epic if they just dropped all these foolish sexual identity crisis and romance affairs(realistically, Shepard shouldn't have any sec to dip into romances and do random dull quests).

Instead of romance mingle-mangles and the routine quests of "do this for us, and our race help you," ME3 should have been a stroy of man(or woman) who is miserably cornered and outnumbered, depressed and afraid of his heavy responsibilities, struggling to find a lay of hope against the impossible odds, using every trick in the book against reapers and abandoning everything of his values in order to just stay alive. One mistake Shepard makes should mean the elimination of an entire race instead of the loss of one of Shepard's teammate.I want different endings to be about which races remain alive instead of which lovers I've chosen and which teamates survived.

Now this is a true epic space opera. Shepard shouldn't be some Godly figure who can win everything wihtout sacraficing any. Shepard should show some human quality of fears, mistakes, and regrets. If he does not, then reapers are not worthy foes to be remembered by gamers for a long time.

But look at what Bioware is doing. Shepard cares so much about reapers that he has to feel agony in his sexual identity, dips into romances with many parners from various races, does mundane quests ranging from a  package delivery to a a rescue of some random people at best.

Sure, players will feel almost depressed and overwhelmed by the threats of the reapers when Shepard roams around  the galaxy, wasting time to gain support from aliens. Yeah, Reapers can be easily defeated even when you start gathering helps after they arrive.

I have no doubts Mass Effect 3 is going to be a great hit in the game market. But I don't expect to see an epic RPG with fantastic stories like planescape torment or KOTOR.

Well, it's not like totally unexpected results. ME2 have become somewhat of a sitcom comedy between characters instead of epic space saga. All recent ME2 DLCs had total disastrous stories.

I am buying this game, but my expectations and excitements are long gone since Dragon Age 2's letdown.








edit: well, taking out things those were not my main points. I don't care if Sheaprd is gay, lesbian, or anything. I care that the game focuses on trivial things in its stroy telling. I hate to see anohter ME2 style melodrama of love, friendship, and character recruitments.

SOUND LIKE A TROLL FOR ME

[Ticktank]

Drinking Shepard wrote...

IntoTheDarkness wrote...


ME3 = Gay Shepard's foolish agony of his sexual identity. COD space version.

Shep's homosexuality is one of the many features and it is totally optional. And ME 3 is above all about saving the Galaxy, romance has always been a very nice but non-essential part of the game. This fact you intentionally ignored because you're just another homophobic dude who has nothing against gays.

Since your signature is so telling, I'm just curious: do you insist that S/S LIs should make passes at Shepard like that fairyboy from DA2? Or are you happy to let Shepard do the initiating?

[Matchy Pointy]

I'm so going to have a male Shep flirting with every guy just for this reason

[XyleJKH]

Oh look... This thread again. I can see how this is more interesting than my threads

[CptData]

Il Divo wrote...

CptData wrote...

ME2 didn't focus on "character relationships". ME1 did that far better, far more authentic and HAD a story.

The entire point of ME2's conversations and loyalty missions was to dive into those characters and to explore "what makes them tick". ME1's characters were probably Bioware's worst cast given examples like Tali and Kaidan, who don't develop or do much of anything. ME2 did it substantially better....with a cast of twelve characters and substantially better cinematic presentation.

Dunno what ME you played, but I think any characters in ME1 had far more development than the guys of ME2. With exception of Mordin, who got the best development in ME2 and even some of the guys from ME1. And, although some of you don't like it, especially since this comes from an Ashley fan: Ashley's original writer did an amazing job to make Ashley a character with flaws but without distracting stuff and "issues". I mean, half of the guys in ME2 had either a f*cked up past or f*cked up relatives or both.

I do like the characters of ME2, it's just that most of them feel incomplete. As if BW intended more than just one recruitment mission plus a loyalty mission plus a few talks. Could be caused by the sheer amount of fresh faces in the series - that's why I say "less means more".

Modifié par CptData, 02 décembre 2011 - 02:47 .

[Il Divo]

CptData wrote...


Dunno what ME you played, but I think any characters in ME1 had far more development than the guys of ME2. With exception of Mordin, who got the best development in ME2 and even some of the guys from ME1. And, although some of you don't like it, especially since this comes from an Ashley fan: Ashley's original writer did an amazing job to make Ashley a character with flaws but without distracting stuff and "issues".
 
I mean, half of the guys in ME2 had either a f*cked up past or f*cked up relatives or both.

More than half.  Characters with backstories/"baggage" often times provide more intrigue than those who don't. That's one of the main issues with a character like Kaidan. ME2's loyalty missions provide an opportunity for Shepard to actually aid these people, to forge a link which goes beyond dialogue. In Tali's LM, Shepard can potentially prevent her exile from the Migrant Fleet. He can help Thane repair his relationship with his son. I consider these to have done a much better job of building a relationship between my PC and the crewmembers around him, because it allowed me to feel like a more active protagonist. I was struck with a Firefly-esque field traveling the galaxy, righting wrongs, etc.

Baggage is not unusual in Bioware games. Admittedly, I'm also not a huge Ashley fan, also considering her one of Bioware's weakest party members. Much of our conversations were too mundane for my tastes.

Modifié par Il Divo, 02 décembre 2011 - 02:52 .

[Drinking Shepard]

Ticktank wrote...

Drinking Shepard wrote...

IntoTheDarkness wrote...


ME3 = Gay Shepard's foolish agony of his sexual identity. COD space version.

Shep's homosexuality is one of the many features and it is totally optional. And ME 3 is above all about saving the Galaxy, romance has always been a very nice but non-essential part of the game. This fact you intentionally ignored because you're just another homophobic dude who has nothing against gays.

Since your signature is so telling, I'm just curious: do you insist that S/S LIs should make passes at Shepard like that fairyboy from DA2? Or are you happy to let Shepard do the initiating?

I absolutely do not insist on that. In fact, Casey already mentioned that in ME 3 you'll have to clearly choose through dialogues what kind of relationship with a squad mate you want, if you want any at all. Best decision that should satisfy everyone, I think.

[Dreadwing 67]

CptData wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

CptData wrote...

ME2 didn't focus on "character relationships". ME1 did that far better, far more authentic and HAD a story.

The entire point of ME2's conversations and loyalty missions was to dive into those characters and to explore "what makes them tick". ME1's characters were probably Bioware's worst cast given examples like Tali and Kaidan, who don't develop or do much of anything. ME2 did it substantially better....with a cast of twelve characters and substantially better cinematic presentation.

Dunno what ME you played, but I think any characters in ME1 had far more development than the guys of ME2. With exception of Mordin, who got the best development in ME2 and even some of the guys from ME1. And, although some of you don't like it, especially since this comes from an Ashley fan: Ashley's original writer did an amazing job to make Ashley a character with flaws but without distracting stuff and "issues". I mean, half of the guys in ME2 had either a f*cked up past or f*cked up relatives or both.

I do like the characters of ME2, it's just that most of them feel incomplete. As if BW intended more than just one recruitment mission plus a loyalty mission plus a few talks. Could be caused by the sheer amount of fresh faces in the series - that's why I say "less means more".

All of it is subjective. I think ME1 just had more dialogue and the atmosphere brought out the feelings and in some regards they did do it better.

But ME2 did the samething, just in the form of more cinematic LM. Each brought out something in the character, one just had to see it. If you made up your mind that whatever ME1 did was wholely better is fine, I'm probably not entirely right. But the developement is still there.

[shepskisaac]

I can't even remember when was the last time we had a "I love the gays but please keep the gay away from my ME3!!!" thread like this

[CptData]

Dreadwing 67 wrote...

All of it is subjective. I think ME1 just had more dialogue and the atmosphere brought out the feelings and in some regards they did do it better.

But ME2 did the samething, just in the form of more cinematic LM. Each brought out something in the character, one just had to see it. If you made up your mind that whatever ME1 did was wholely better is fine, I'm probably not entirely right. But the developement is still there.

Sure, it's all about personal opinions and tastes.
I'd like to say the LM in ME2 should have been integrated into main story. Heck with it, some characters deserved more than one LM: Miranda for example. Or Garrus. There are some guys I really care for and others I say "nice to have them, but don't wanna waste too much time on their story". Dunno.

Whatever. Both, ME1 and ME2 lacked something in character development and that's friendship. I mean, just because my male Shepard cares about his female crewmates it doesn't mean he wants getting in their pants


Also, since it came up: of course, any LM & recruitment missions added something new to the lore. I appreciate it. However, it's just too much if you consider the vanilla game comes with just 6 story related missions. The rest is "fluff". If you get your hands on any big DLCs, you'll have 8 story related missions (Arrival and LotSB) and the rest is all about recruiting, loyalizing and some side assignments.
I mean you simply spend too much time on NOT following the story - which is a bit sad <_<

Modifié par CptData, 02 décembre 2011 - 02:59 .

[GMagnum]

aye dam gay ppl hella cool dey share da blnt btter so who care tbh

[Ticktank]

Drinking Shepard wrote...

Ticktank wrote...

Drinking Shepard wrote...

IntoTheDarkness wrote...


ME3 = Gay Shepard's foolish agony of his sexual identity. COD space version.

Shep's homosexuality is one of the many features and it is totally optional. And ME 3 is above all about saving the Galaxy, romance has always been a very nice but non-essential part of the game. This fact you intentionally ignored because you're just another homophobic dude who has nothing against gays.

Since your signature is so telling, I'm just curious: do you insist that S/S LIs should make passes at Shepard like that fairyboy from DA2? Or are you happy to let Shepard do the initiating?

I absolutely do not insist on that. In fact, Casey already mentioned that in ME 3 you'll have to clearly choose through dialogues what kind of relationship with a squad mate you want, if you want any at all. Best decision that should satisfy everyone, I think.

OMG a sensible S/S lobbyist I love you in a platonic way. I wish some of the freaks in the S/S thread were this way. Apparently, not wanting your Shepard to be hit on by a S/S LI makes you a homophobe to them. 

[S.A.K]

[Kaiser Shepard]

Good topic, but I don't think comparing ME to CoD does the latter any justice, although I must admit that I haven't played Black Ops or MW3 yet.

Adugan wrote...

Woo! Woo! Chuggachuggachuggachugga!

COLE TRAIN BABY!

[witchee2woman]

i just wish that they will put conrad and that green asari that was under the thorin control and that agent into ME3 that were in ME1. i play on the PS3 so i wasnt able to play ME1. i feel cheated that i miss out on those encounters.

[Sebbe1337o]

lol troll.

[Gespenst]

Il Divo wrote...

The entire point of ME2's conversations and loyalty missions was to dive into those characters and to explore "what makes them tick". ME1's characters were probably Bioware's worst cast given examples like Tali and Kaidan, who don't develop or do much of anything. ME2 did it substantially better....with a cast of twelve characters and substantially better cinematic presentation.

And then to kill them in seemingly pointless ways.

And to let you know that their deaths are all. Your. Fault.

Ticktank wrote...

Since your signature is so telling, I'm just curious: do you insist that S/S LIs should make passes at Shepard
like that fairyboy from DA2? Or are you happy to let Shepard do the initiating?

...who?

...Fairyboy?

What does it matter if they initiate the romance discussion? Protip: If a gay person comes on to you and you're not interested say "no". Works in real life too.

Ticktank wrote...

OMG a sensible S/S lobbyist I love you in a platonic way. I wish some of the freaks in the S/S thread were this way. Apparently, not wanting your Shepard to be hit on by a S/S LI makes you a homophobe to them.

Well that is one of the homophobe stock phrases. It's a bit like anything that starts "I'm not racist but..."

Modifié par Gespenst, 02 décembre 2011 - 03:19 .

[eye basher]

In before the lock