164 réponses à ce sujet

[tetrisblock4x1]

Basically it's like this: You start at character creation and you choose what kind of a weapon you want to kill people with. You level that weapon up with an additional ability or two among heaps of numerical upgrades that basically serve to make the game easier. And then you proceed to play a game which emphasises combat as the be all and end all solution to every problem in the game and are rewarded with darkside/light side points based on whichever dialog hyperlink you click on preceeding the combat.

If you want to play a character in any Bioware game and you want the character to be good at stealth (a few seconds of cloak in the middle of a hundred unskippable firefights doesn't count), diplomacy, trading, sagotage, trapping, repairs, science, or anything that is not shooting, well, you won't find it in any of Biowares new games. "B-b-but the dialog options, but [aragon/renegade, but customization of appearance and story" but NOTHING. You play the role of a space marine, and nothing more. I can think of a number of open world games from this year which have at least some options, morality and story choice, but I don't see anyone calling Arkham City or Saints row 3 RPGs, and why would anyone call them that? Why is Biowares Mass Effect the exception?

Reference the original Fallout and fallout 2 if you can't think of any RPGs of the type I've just described.

Modifié par tetrisblock4x1, 03 décembre 2011 - 11:37 .

[tetrisblock4x1]

When the difference between Call of Duty and Mass Effect become more distinguishable.

[Il Divo]

Really? I can distinguish between the two quite a bit. It helps when you recognize both are two entirely different styles of gameplay.

[Exia001]

You are either blind stupid or ignorrant, the fact you can even suggest that SR3 has more moral choice that ME makes me giggle at your stupid. just because BW doesnt cater to what you personally want, doesnt mean they can't make RPGs. I think sales and awards outrank one fool on BSN

[tetrisblock4x1]

Sometimes you get the occasional sidequest where you have options other than guns blazing, but apart from that the most distinguishable difference is that one is third person and the other is not.

[Il Divo]

Right, so who wants to take care of this one?

[tetrisblock4x1]

Exia001 wrote...

the fact you can even suggest that SR3 has more moral choice that ME

Nah, that aint me.

[twisty77]

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

When the difference between Call of Duty and Mass Effect become more distinguishable.

I can name quite a few off the top of my head...

1) Third person vs. first person
2) Choices during campaign vs. no choices
3) No deathmatch style multiplayer vs. that's what it's all about...
4) Rich story mode vs. 6 hour(at best) campaign

You need to stfu until you learn what you're talking about.

Stop trolling for unicorns, buddy.

[tetrisblock4x1]

jreezy wrote...

There's a role that's being played in a game. Sounds like a RPG to me.

Are you serious?

[Degenerate Rakia Time]

personally i think RPG is a very archaic term, in EVERY game you play some kind of role, the only difference is how much choice you have

[Harmless Citizen]

You created an entire thread just to moan? Par for the course on this forum, but really now. If you find the company's work so objectionable, you could always not play.

[Exia001]

^ I like this Human, he understands!

[tetrisblock4x1]

twisty77 wrote...

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

When the difference between Call of Duty and Mass Effect become more distinguishable.

I can name quite a few off the top of my head...

1) Third person vs. first person
2) Choices during campaign vs. no choices
3) No deathmatch style multiplayer vs. that's what it's all about...
4) Rich story mode vs. 6 hour(at best) campaign

You need to stfu until you learn what you're talking about.

Stop trolling for unicorns, buddy.

If you read the OP carefully, you may notice that I'm speaking of the fact that you don't get choices in how to play your character in Mass Effect. You get to choose what weapons you use with which to kill your enemies, so thats one up from CoD, but ME could be much more than that.

[Harmless Citizen]

She*

[LGTX]

Because they try to evolve role-playing into actual role-playing, as opposed to stat-crunching and defining character professions and skillsets. It's just RPG evolution, nothing is wrong with not 'getting it'. But Bioware won't admit anything to you just because you disagree.

[byzantine horse]

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

When the difference between Call of Duty and Mass Effect become more distinguishable.

I can distinguish it for you.

One is a fps, one is a tps.

One is a cinematic experience with no choices what so ever, the other is a cinematic experience with an abundance of choices.

And so on.


Or does it break your immersion that Shepard doesn't run around in armor with several different colors and that they are all stolen from enemies he has recently killed? Oh and let's not forget Shephard can't start with cool guns he has to begin with a plastic waterpistol because that is what is a good RPG to your kind. Oh and let's not forget that Shpehard should be horrible at shooting with guns as well because if he is good at it you can't spend points to improve his gun profficiency. 

This is what RPG is to some of you, and sure you might enjoy those more than Bioware's current stapel of RPGs but if you do play them instead. Simple as that.

[Candidate 88766]

Bioware tells stories through games. That is what they've always done - put story ahead of gameplay and genre.

It just so happens that the easiest way to tell stories in games in the way Bioware wants to is through RPGs, or games that feature some traditional RPG features. That doesn't mean that every game Bioware makes has to adhere to some arbitrary game features checklist so it can be called an RPG. They realised with ME that while choices and customization suit the game, traditional RPG combat simply doesn't fit so they decided to use TPS mechanics.

Thats what Bioware does - they create stories and then choose gameplay mechanics that best serve that story, rather than choosing gameplay mechanics based on genre. I wish all developers were like this with game design - using mechanics that are suited to that individual game as opposed to using mechanics just for the sake of calling it a shooter or an RPG, which in the end are just arbitrary titles.

A good game is a good game regardless of genre.

Modifié par Candidate 88766, 03 décembre 2011 - 11:57 .

[Eudaemonium]

Potential trolling aside, the OP does make the valid point that there is rarely any solution other than outright combat in the vast majority of Bioware titles. This is true for ME, DA, heck even Baldur's Gate in a lot of cases (though not all). In Bioware titles, one is required to play a certain type of character within certain predefined parameters. One cannot, for example, specialise in stealth, diplomacy, trading or some kind of creative skill *and be able to play the game as someone with those skills and no others, without the requirement for combat*. It would be nice if these things were possible, but these are not the types of games Bioware makes or has really ever made, so I don't expect them to start making them now. Yes, in ME you play a space marine. Yes, in DAO you are a Grey Warden and in DA2 you are the Champion of Kirkwall. You are able to shape these characters within the story Bioware has laid out.

Thing is, these things don't make these things not RPGs. Sure, they don't have the free-flowing open-endedness of a Fallout, or an Elder Scrolls title. RPG is a pretty broad category. Anything that manages to contain both Final Fantasy and Skyrim kinda has to be pretty broad in terms of gameplay mechanics and layout, though there is still a dominant Sci-Fantasy trend in the medium. Bioware tends to create titles that are about half-way between the party-based single-narratives of traditional JRPGs and the open choice/consequence RPGs created by some western companies (like Bethesda).

[Candidate 88766]

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

twisty77 wrote...

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

When the difference between Call of Duty and Mass Effect become more distinguishable.

I can name quite a few off the top of my head...

1) Third person vs. first person
2) Choices during campaign vs. no choices
3) No deathmatch style multiplayer vs. that's what it's all about...
4) Rich story mode vs. 6 hour(at best) campaign

You need to stfu until you learn what you're talking about.

Stop trolling for unicorns, buddy.

If you read the OP carefully, you may notice that I'm speaking of the fact that you don't get choices in how to play your character in Mass Effect. You get to choose what weapons you use with which to kill your enemies, so thats one up from CoD, but ME could be much more than that.

For the sake of a good story the main character has to be well-defined. Bioware wanted to tell a story with Mass Effect, so Shepard has to be defined to some extent. No matter which morality path you choose, Shepard is always trying to save the galaxy. The player cannot change this. If Bioware gave us complete freedom with Shepard then the main story could never be as good as it is.

[LGTX]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Bioware tells stories through games. That is what they've always done - put story ahead of gameplay and genre.

It just so happens that the easiest way to tell stories in games in the way Bioware wants to is through RPGs, or games that feature some traditional RPG features. That doesn't mean that every game Bioware makes has to adhere to some arbitrary game features checklist so it can be called an RPG. They realised with ME that while choices and customization suit the game, traditional RPG combat simply doesn't fit so they decided to use TPS mechanics.

Thats what Bioware does - they create stories and then choose gameplay mechanics that best serve that story, rather than choosing gameplay mechanics based on genre. I wish all developers were like this with game design - using mechanics that are suited to that individual game as opposed to using mechanics just for the sake of calling it a shooter or an RPG, which in the end are just arbitrary titles.

A good game is a good game regardless of genre.

This this this this this this THIS. Thank you for finally putting into words what has been fumbling around in my mind.

Bioware don't care about genre restrictions when they develop. That is why there's so much convroversy like this topic, and that is why the subsequent game reviews are so rave. It's all in the approach.