164 réponses à ce sujet

[spirosz]

I already made the joke about walking up 7000 steps to get away from this RPG bickering, so let's all come up with some more!

[Harmless Citizen]

For all those who didn't read the thread, allow me to save you some time with a summary:

[Abraham_uk]

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

Basically it's like this: You start at character creation and you choose what kind of a weapon you want to kill people with. You level that weapon up with an additional ability or two among heaps of numerical upgrades that basically serve to make the game easier. And then you proceed to play a game which emphasises combat as the be all and end all solution to every problem in the game and are rewarded with darkside/light side points based on whichever dialog hyperlink you click on preceeding the combat.

If you want to play a character in any Bioware game and you want the character to be good at stealth (a few seconds of cloak in the middle of a hundred unskippable firefights doesn't count), diplomacy, trading, sagotage, trapping, repairs, science, or anything that is not shooting, well, you won't find it in any of Biowares new games. "B-b-but the dialog options, but [aragon/renegade, but customization of appearance and story" but NOTHING. You play the role of a space marine, and nothing more. I can think of a number of open world games from this year which have at least some options, morality and story choice, but I don't see anyone calling Arkham City or Saints row 3 RPGs, and why would anyone call them that? Why is Biowares Mass Effect the exception?

Reference the original Fallout and fallout 2 if you can't think of any RPGs of the type I've just described.

No one seems to agree on a definition on Role Playing Games. Mass Effect is about providing an excellent game with RPG elements, and shooting elements, with some exploration and character development, along with a collection of stories. It is about creating a universe and giving players choices.

Ultimately people who create games intending them to fit a fixed definition of a gaming genre, ultimately forget what makes a game worth while. Mass Effect is a mixture of elements from various gaming genres, and story telling genres. It takes inspiration from a multitude of sources to create an experience. Mass Effect was never about fitting a specific definition of Role Playing Game.

Furthermore Bioware is a team of people not one person. Casy Hudson isn't Mass Effect, and Mark Laidlaw is not Dragon Age. These intelectual propeties are not single entities, but teams of people with their own ideas and visions collaborating to create new gaming universes.

Your definition of a rogue. I liked Mass Effect 2 because roles such as diplomacy, hacking and bypassing were not limited to the tech classes. I liked the fact that you didn't have to be a sentinel or an engineer to use first aid. I liked the fact that any class can use a heavy weapon. I liked the fact that the classes allowed a level of versatility that is absent in a rigid class system like the one you described.

Genre classification is a guide as to the elements contained within a game not an absoulte description of that game. Mass Effect is a shoot-em-up RPG. Arkam Asylum is a sandbox, superhero, RPG (sort of), and Saints Row 3 is a sandbox, driving, shootem-up, mess around game.

[Abraham_uk]

Random Nobody wrote...

For all those who didn't read the thread, allow me to save you some time with a summary:

Absoultely agree. (that was the closest emoticon I could find to the above picture).

[Complistic]

PsychoWARD23 wrote...

_/

I play games because I like them, not because of their supposed genre.

It's still false advertising. 

[Dave Exclamation Mark Yognaut]

Complistic wrote...

PsychoWARD23 wrote...

_/

I play games because I like them, not because of their supposed genre.

It's still false advertising. 

Eh, ME series are still RPGs - at least if you consider (and I do) stuff like Deus Ex, Human Revolution, and Broderlands to be RPGs.

[Arcadian Legend]

If a game is good and is enjoyable enough to play through (perhaps multiple times) does it really matter what genre it is or isn't? Who cares about that?

[Abraham_uk]

Dave Exclamation Mark Yognaut wrote...

Complistic wrote...

PsychoWARD23 wrote...

_/

I play games because I like them, not because of their supposed genre.

It's still false advertising. 

Eh, ME series are still RPGs - at least if you consider (and I do) stuff like Deus Ex, Human Revolution, and Broderlands to be RPGs.

Awesome point. I absoultely agree. Also awesome name (haven't the faintest idea what your name means though).

[GodWood]

They don't need to. Just look at the evidence.

[Hathur]

To be fair, Bioware never called Mass Effect a RPG... they specifically emphasize that point quite often in interviews with the press when asked about genres. They refer to it (accurately) as a hybrid of roleplaying and shooter... which is precisely what it is. It is not a pure RPG in the conventional sense, nor is it to a pure third person shooter in the conventional sense.

Hence... hybrid.

It's the fanbase that keeps calling it a RPG.. not Bioware.

[AdmiralCheez]

Hathur wrote...

To be fair, Bioware never called Mass Effect a RPG... they specifically emphasize that point quite often in interviews with the press when asked about genres. They refer to it (accurately) as a hybrid of roleplaying and shooter... which is precisely what it is. It is not a pure RPG in the conventional sense, nor is it to a pure third person shooter in the conventional sense.

Hence... hybrid.

It's the fanbase that keeps calling it a RPG.. not Bioware.

Hathur is good, Hathur is wise.

[Someone With Mass]

Hathur wrote...

To be fair, Bioware never called Mass Effect a RPG... they specifically emphasize that point quite often in interviews with the press when asked about genres. They refer to it (accurately) as a hybrid of roleplaying and shooter... which is precisely what it is. It is not a pure RPG in the conventional sense, nor is it to a pure third person shooter in the conventional sense.

Hence... hybrid.

It's the fanbase that keeps calling it a RPG.. not Bioware.

Too bad that more can't see it like this, though.

Would prevent threads like this.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Hathur wrote...

To be fair, Bioware never called Mass Effect a RPG... they specifically emphasize that point quite often in interviews with the press when asked about genres. They refer to it (accurately) as a hybrid of roleplaying and shooter... which is precisely what it is. It is not a pure RPG in the conventional sense, nor is it to a pure third person shooter in the conventional sense.

Hence... hybrid.

It's the fanbase that keeps calling it a RPG.. not Bioware.

[Arcadian Legend]

Hathur wrote...

To be fair, Bioware never called Mass Effect a RPG... they specifically emphasize that point quite often in interviews with the press when asked about genres. They refer to it (accurately) as a hybrid of roleplaying and shooter... which is precisely what it is. It is not a pure RPG in the conventional sense, nor is it to a pure third person shooter in the conventional sense.

Hence... hybrid.

It's the fanbase that keeps calling it a RPG.. not Bioware.

The truth had grown twisted with Chinese whispers due to our very own fanbase?

I'm trying to hold back a laugh. Wait, why am I holding it back?



As everyone else is saying, wise Hathur is wise.

Modifié par Arcadian Legend, 03 décembre 2011 - 06:15 .

[Abraham_uk]

Arcadian Legend wrote...

Hathur wrote...

To be fair, Bioware never called Mass Effect a RPG... they specifically emphasize that point quite often in interviews with the press when asked about genres. They refer to it (accurately) as a hybrid of roleplaying and shooter... which is precisely what it is. It is not a pure RPG in the conventional sense, nor is it to a pure third person shooter in the conventional sense.

Hence... hybrid.

It's the fanbase that keeps calling it a RPG.. not Bioware.

The truth had grown twisted with Chinese whispers due to our very own fanbase?

I'm trying to hold back a laugh. Wait, why am I holding it back?

EA categorises Mass Effect as an RPG too but you do have a good point.

[GMagnum]

Hathur wrote...

To be fair, Bioware never called Mass Effect a RPG... they specifically emphasize that point quite often in interviews with the press when asked about genres. They refer to it (accurately) as a hybrid of roleplaying and shooter... which is precisely what it is. It is not a pure RPG in the conventional sense, nor is it to a pure third person shooter in the conventional sense.

Hence... hybrid.

It's the fanbase that keeps calling it a RPG.. not Bioware.

i jus quote dis 2 keep da chain goin tbh

[Balek-Vriege]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Hathur wrote...

To be fair, Bioware never called Mass Effect a RPG... they specifically emphasize that point quite often in interviews with the press when asked about genres. They refer to it (accurately) as a hybrid of roleplaying and shooter... which is precisely what it is. It is not a pure RPG in the conventional sense, nor is it to a pure third person shooter in the conventional sense.

Hence... hybrid.

It's the fanbase that keeps calling it a RPG.. not Bioware.

I'm going to add to the large number of people on this page supporting this post.

Me too. Mass Effect 1 since the earliest days of development was always referred to as an "Action/Shooter RPG."  I remember the first time I read the ME1 site, I was actually turned off the game because of it (at the time I still sucked at shooters and was used to playing the BGs, NWNs and Fallouts of the world).

Somewhere along the road ME was hijacked as a "Hardcore RPG" by some because the story was so great and/or liked the now defunct ME1 inventory system etc.  When Bioware perfected their Action RPG with an upgrade to the "action," it seems those very people seem "betrayed" by Bioware when they're the ones who forgot the original intention of the ME series in the first place.

[SNascimento]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Bioware tells stories through games. That is what they've always done - put story ahead of gameplay and genre.

It just so happens that the easiest way to tell stories in games in the way Bioware wants to is through RPGs, or games that feature some traditional RPG features. That doesn't mean that every game Bioware makes has to adhere to some arbitrary game features checklist so it can be called an RPG. They realised with ME that while choices and customization suit the game, traditional RPG combat simply doesn't fit so they decided to use TPS mechanics.

Thats what Bioware does - they create stories and then choose gameplay mechanics that best serve that story, rather than choosing gameplay mechanics based on genre. I wish all developers were like this with game design - using mechanics that are suited to that individual game as opposed to using mechanics just for the sake of calling it a shooter or an RPG, which in the end are just arbitrary titles.

A good game is a good game regardless of genre.

.
Pretty much this.

[Candidate 88766]

I'm going to quote this for emphasis:

Hathur wrote...

To be fair, Bioware never called Mass Effect a RPG... they specifically emphasize that point quite often in interviews with the press when asked about genres. They refer to it (accurately) as a hybrid of roleplaying and shooter... which is precisely what it is. It is not a pure RPG in the conventional sense, nor is it to a pure third person shooter in the conventional sense.

Hence... hybrid.

It's the fanbase that keeps calling it a RPG.. not Bioware.

And I'm going to shamelessly quote myself from earlier in the thread:

Bioware tells stories through games. That is what they've always done - put story ahead of gameplay and genre.

It just so happens that the easiest way to tell stories in games in the way Bioware wants to is through RPGs, or games that feature some traditional RPG features. That doesn't mean that every game Bioware makes has to adhere to some arbitrary game features checklist so it can be called an RPG. They realised with ME that while choices and customization suit the game, traditional RPG combat simply doesn't fit so they decided to use TPS mechanics. 

Thats what Bioware does - they create stories and then choose gameplay mechanics that best serve that story, rather than choosing gameplay mechanics based on genre. I wish all developers were like this with game design - using mechanics that are suited to that individual game as opposed to using mechanics just for the sake of calling it a shooter or an RPG, which in the end are just arbitrary titles. 

A good game is a good game regardless of genre.

Okay, Mass Effect games are not traditional RPGs. They were never meant to be and Bioware went out of their way to describe them as hybrid games - something distinct from traditional RPGs.

Now can we please just stop bickering about this. 

[Sgt Stryker]

Hathur wrote...

To be fair, Bioware never called Mass Effect a RPG... they specifically emphasize that point quite often in interviews with the press when asked about genres. They refer to it (accurately) as a hybrid of roleplaying and shooter... which is precisely what it is. It is not a pure RPG in the conventional sense, nor is it to a pure third person shooter in the conventional sense.

Hence... hybrid.

It's the fanbase that keeps calling it a RPG.. not Bioware.

And video game journalists. Some of you already know how I feel about them.

[tetrisblock4x1]

Zjarcal wrote...

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

When the difference between Call of Duty and Mass Effect become more distinguishable.

Lol... ok people, nothing to see here, move along. Or not, I guess we can keep laughing at the OP's posts.

Ah,I see what's going on here. People are choosing to read this comment as me saying that CoD and ME are completely indistinguishable when what I really mean is that each game is highly rail roaded. Mass Effect is not like System Shock where specializing in guns make you a marine, and thus not very good  at engineering which expands your options by unlocking new parts of the ship, programming robots to fight for you. It's not like Fallout where you can choose to sneak through the majority of the game, annonymous and without ever attacking anything. Yeah, you see if you compare CoD and ME from that point of view then you'd have no choice but to admit that that ME is far more railroading than any of the RPG classics and thus it is closer to CoD than Fallout or System Shock, or any corridor shooter for that matter and that there is plenty more that ME could do differently to CoD.