408 réponses à ce sujet

[Killjoy Cutter]

slimgrin wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Ooh I don't know about that slim. You and Issac do quite a bit of hissing and getting digs at each other with hackles raised.

*chews cheerfully*

That's not my intent. I respect Isaac, and Jb, and all my 'adversaries' on the topic.

Then act like it.

[Estelindis]

slimgrin wrote...

But I feel the need to point out the obvious fact everyone is ignoring. When the game released this wasn't even in question. Jack was clearly straight.

You told me I was deluding myself.  That's rude.  I wasn't even saying what you seemed to think I was saying.

Personally, I think Jack is straight.  I don't think that's at odds with interpreting her "girl's club" comment as meaning that she's not into female friendship.  I think Jack is very insecure emotionally for most of ME2, because she's accustomed to the idea that other people only want to use her.  Accordingly, although it used to bug me that her friendship path with FemShep stops very abruptly, I now interpret it as a sign that she doesn't take attempts at friendship seriously because she thinks they can't really be sincere.  I think male Shepard gets a bit further because she can believe he's just trying to get into her pants, but the fact that she lets him get a bit closer because that's the kind of behaviour she expects then allows him either to confirm her expectations or to turn them around and show her that he really does care about her as a person, even loves her.  Do you see what I mean, even if you don't agree?

[slimgrin]

Estelindis wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

But I feel the need to point out the obvious fact everyone is ignoring. When the game released this wasn't even in question. Jack was clearly straight.

You told me I was deluding myself.  That's rude.  I wasn't even saying what you seemed to think I was saying.

Personally, I think Jack is straight.  I don't think that's at odds with interpreting her "girl's club" comment as meaning that she's not into female friendship.  I think Jack is very insecure emotionally for most of ME2, because she's accustomed to the idea that other people only want to use her.  Accordingly, although it used to bug me that her friendship path with FemShep stops very abruptly, I now interpret it as a sign that she doesn't take attempts at friendship seriously because she thinks they can't really be sincere.  I think male Shepard gets a bit further because she can believe he's just trying to get into her pants, but the fact that she lets him get a bit closer because that's the kind of behaviour she expects then allows him either to confirm her expectations or to turn them around and show her that he really does care about her as a person, even loves her.  Do you see what I mean, even if you don't agree?

Yes, I see what you're saying.

[LiquidGrape]

slimgrin wrote...

I wasn't being rude there. But I feel the need to point out the obvious fact everyone is ignoring. When the game released this wasn't even in question. Jack was clearly straight.

The way I remember it, many of the Jack thread's regulars were actually just unwilling to consider the possibility that Jack's comment could be interpreted as implying something else.
Most of the time the topic was simply ignored, but I distinctly remember Mondo dared suggest that perhaps Jack would approach a relationship with a woman differently, that maybe she considered women less transparent and therefore more intimidating as potential partners.
She was dismissed as being "sexist" within a matter of minutes.

Not to mention how Jack actually retorts "what, like a boyfriend or a girlfriend?" when asked whether or not she's had previous relationships.

- So no, Jack has not always been perceived as clearly straight. It's just that those who were of that opinion shut down any discussion which would argue otherwise.

[slimgrin]

LiquidGrape wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

I wasn't being rude there. But I feel the need to point out the obvious fact everyone is ignoring. When the game released this wasn't even in question. Jack was clearly straight.

The way I remember it, many of the Jack thread's regulars were actually just unwilling to consider the possibility that Jack's comment could be interpreted as implying something else.
Most of the time the topic was simply ignored, but I distinctly remember Mondo dared suggest that perhaps Jack would approach a relationship with a woman differently, that maybe she considered women less transparent and therefore more intimidating as potential partners.
She was dismissed as being "sexist" within a matter of minutes.

Not to mention how Jack actually retorts "what, like a boyfriend or a girlfriend?" when asked whether or not she's had previous relationships.

- So no, Jack has not always been perceived as clearly straight. It's just that those who were of that opinion shut down any discussion which would argue otherwise.

And if someone in real life straight up told you "I'm not into the girl's club" what would you take away from that?

[Harmless Citizen]

Actually, she said "I'm not a girls' club kind of person." Subtle but significant difference.

And unless I was making obvious romantic overtures, I'd still think she wasn't interested in being friendly.

[Killjoy Cutter]

slimgrin wrote...

LiquidGrape wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

I wasn't being rude there. But I feel the need to point out the obvious fact everyone is ignoring. When the game released this wasn't even in question. Jack was clearly straight.

The way I remember it, many of the Jack thread's regulars were actually just unwilling to consider the possibility that Jack's comment could be interpreted as implying something else.
Most of the time the topic was simply ignored, but I distinctly remember Mondo dared suggest that perhaps Jack would approach a relationship with a woman differently, that maybe she considered women less transparent and therefore more intimidating as potential partners.
She was dismissed as being "sexist" within a matter of minutes.

Not to mention how Jack actually retorts "what, like a boyfriend or a girlfriend?" when asked whether or not she's had previous relationships.

- So no, Jack has not always been perceived as clearly straight. It's just that those who were of that opinion shut down any discussion which would argue otherwise.

And if someone in real life straight up told you "I'm not into the girl's club" what would you take away from that?

It would depend on the context.  I have a couple of utterly straight female friends who prefer to hang out with guys because they don't like the way a lot of women act, or so they tell me.  One went so far as to tell me "I can't stand most b******."

[jlb524]

slimgrin wrote...
And if someone in real life straight up told you "I'm not into the girl's club" what would you take away from that?

She doesn't want to talk about shoes and paint my toenails.

[slimgrin]

jlb524 wrote...

slimgrin wrote...
And if someone in real life straight up told you "I'm not into the girl's club" what would you take away from that?

She doesn't want to talk about shoes and paint my toenails.

I'm guessing it means she doesn't want to do more than that.

[Mondo47]

slimgrin wrote...

And if someone in real life straight up told you "I'm not into the girl's club" what would you take away from that?

That she didn't want to sit around in some tragic little socio-norm distaff version of "the boy's club"; talking about who did what with whom last week at the office party, the latest Twilight movie, and men as opposed to who's screwing who, football and chicks

Just put it in Normandy context - you can see maybe Kasumi, Kelly, Tali, hell, even Miranda once she defrosts a little, sitting around and doing exactly that; fitting into the cosy interactions of a single-sex group dynamic (be it as pithy, stereotypical and heteronormative as my sarcastic example above or not). And Femme-Shep, from Jack's viewpoint potentially being another member of the little circle trying to pull her in and make her into someone she isn't, is rebuffed for being perceived as someone trying to maybe change who Jack is. Jack is not really a group person. She trusts number one and only number one. Whether you read her as bi, straight, whatever, you can't deny that she doesn't integrate. She sits under the stairs for a reason. And because of that, I can't see any sexuality-driven connotation in that line at all.

Each to their own though. I don't like getting involved in this kind of crap anymore here.

[Ziggy]

Well, given the mixed opinions on the topic, it'd say it's pretty clear that it's not clear.

[slimgrin]

Em23 wrote...

Well, given the mixed opinions on the topic, it'd say it's pretty clear that it's not clear.

It's quite clear once the wishfull thinking is removed.

Modifié par slimgrin, 05 décembre 2011 - 01:43 .

[Harmless Citizen]

Yep. Since this conversation seems to be a debate of eternal recurrence, I'm simply going to lean back and call horsesh*t.

[shepskisaac]

slimgrin wrote...

It's quite clear once the wishfull thinking is removed.

You say that as if you were an objective observer who doesn't really care one way or another, instead of a guy who very much wishes all the ME1/2 characters to be straight and only straight. #justsayin

[Quething]

jlb524 wrote...

She doesn't want to talk about shoes and paint my toenails.

Too bad, I bet she'd be really good at it.

(The toenail painting, I mean, not the shoes bit.)

Modifié par Quething, 05 décembre 2011 - 01:49 .

[Ziggy]

slimgrin wrote...

Em23 wrote...

Well, given the mixed opinions on the topic, it'd say it's pretty clear that it's not clear.

It's quite clear once the wishfull thinking is removed.

Idk, I hope it's Ash not Jack so... but we'll see, I'm still just happy they're including it this time 

[android654]

IsaacShep wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

It's quite clear once the wishfull thinking is removed.

You say that as if you were an objective observer who doesn't really care one way or another, instead of a guy who very much wishes all the ME1/2 characters to be straight and only straight. #justsayin

Agree. But we've gotten very off track. There should be some sort of option for a Gay male or female Shepard. Since the concept of the series was set to be a universe with variable surrounding the main protagonist, a gay commander should have been considered, especially when there's an entire race of bisexual women in this series. It's just even more odd that there's no option considering DA's universe solves this problem rather simply.

[slimgrin]

Random Nobody wrote...

Yep. Since this conversation seems to be a debate of eternal recurrence, I'm simply going to lean back and call horsesh*t.

At least everyone else is responding. You can lurk then.

And I'm serious with what I say, not just trying to stir up trouble.

Modifié par slimgrin, 05 décembre 2011 - 01:56 .

[bandfred]

So there are no gay/bi men (until ME3

Gavorn is hinted to be gay.

[shepskisaac]

android654 wrote...

Agree. But we've gotten very off track. There should be some sort of option for a Gay male or female Shepard. Since the concept of the series was set to be a universe with variable surrounding the main protagonist, a gay commander should have been considered, especially when there's an entire race of bisexual women in this series. It's just even more odd that there's no option considering DA's universe solves this problem rather simply.

There was lesbian Shepard in ME franchise since day 1, albeit with much less options than her straight and male counterparts. It was the gay male Shepard that was suspiciously missing.

[weikle21]

bandfred wrote...

So there are no gay/bi men (until ME3

Gavorn is hinted to be gay.

How? I've never picked up on that when talking to him. 

Edit: Ohhhhh the shadow broker video??? Hmm, I can't see that as being any realy evidence. I do, however, understand how it can be interpreted that way 

Modifié par weikle21, 05 décembre 2011 - 02:15 .

[android654]

IsaacShep wrote...

android654 wrote...

Agree. But we've gotten very off track. There should be some sort of option for a Gay male or female Shepard. Since the concept of the series was set to be a universe with variable surrounding the main protagonist, a gay commander should have been considered, especially when there's an entire race of bisexual women in this series. It's just even more odd that there's no option considering DA's universe solves this problem rather simply.

There was lesbian Shepard in ME franchise since day 1, albeit with much less options than her straight and male counterparts. It was the gay male Shepard that was suspiciously missing.

Yes, Liara is the lesbian option, and you're right that gay male shepard is pretty much left out in the cold for no good reason. Its a shame because this couyld have been pursued with the Drells. An amphibious species could easily be written to be asexual when it comes to their reproduction, or somewhere along the lines of mixing the Asari's form of reproduction with traditional reptilian birth would have worked. But I'm getting a little off track. I think that gay Shepard should've had Kaidan as an option from the beginning aswell as Ashley for the female Shepard. To bring it about now seems a bit late, but better than nothing. Too bad it's Vega that's rumoured to be it, none too happy about that.

[Harmless Citizen]

Asari's form of reproduction with traditional reptilian birth

Wait, wat.

e_e

[Harmless Citizen]

And I'm serious with what I say, not just trying to stir up trouble

I believe you. But you have to know that it rankles when you assert your inferences as fact when you haven't a scrap of concrete evidence. Add that to the fact your tone is, purposefully or not, extremely patronising, and I'm surprised it isn't a ragefest in here already. You can't call a conclusion "wishful thinking," and "delusional" and imply a weak grasp of English on the merit of "because I said so."