408 réponses à ce sujet

[AngelicMachinery]

jlb524 wrote...

strive wrote...
Up to the PCs interpretation. I imagine hardened Leliana is serious since she has no problem having a foursome with Alistair, Isabela and the Warden.

But it's not 'obvious' that she's into men.

Which makes her a bad bisexual!

*smacks Leliana*

naughty bad bisexual?

[shepskisaac]

strive wrote...

But I'd rather they add those details in than just expand the status quo everywhere else.

But they WON'T add those details, so they should just drop the last remaining facade of realism in LIs availability that had very dubious reasons for existance in ME franchise in the first place.

[FeralEwok]

JamieCOTC wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

JamieCOTC wrote...

Asari are not woman and have no vagina.  In fact they don’t have anything below the waist. They just explode after 1000 years of holding it all in.

Asari do have vagina. Babies came out from somewhere AND replay LotSB.

They are A mono-gender race. Which means they have 1 sex and they're definitely not males.



Male and female just doesn't have meaning for Asari.
That's it.



Even if that's not the case, they look like a woman!
Which means that if human female has sexual attraction to Asari, she is lesbian or bisexual.

"That was a joke." 

Even EDI has one

[jlb524]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

strive wrote...
Up to the PCs interpretation. I imagine hardened Leliana is serious since she has no problem having a foursome with Alistair, Isabela and the Warden.

But it's not 'obvious' that she's into men.

Which makes her a bad bisexual!

*smacks Leliana*

naughty bad bisexual?

Indeed.

[AdmiralCheez]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Please don't be mad at me. I'm not saying i don't like bi characters (like others are saying, Leliana and Zevran are good examples), I'm saying I think there should be some of all types, not just one type.

Look, I like characters of all types, too, but I get really, really annoyed when I can't have something just because I picked the wrong option in the character creation menu.  Origin missions and class-specific talents/powers?  Okay, lots of fun, but aaaarrrrgh I get boxblocked by straight people enough in real life.

And I'm gonna be mad at you for your comments about lesbians and feminine/masculine behavior.  Everyone on this forum has probably figured out by now that I have a serious weed up my ass about gender roles and stereotypes.  Mostly because they tell me to be something I'm not.  Everyone faces that in some way in all sorts of different forms, but sex/gender happens to be the big one for me because I find it the most restricting in my personal experience.

[Mr.House]

Hey no smacking Leli.

[kiti.the.great]

IsaacShep wrote...

strive wrote...

But I'd rather they add those details in than just expand the status quo everywhere else.

But they WON'T add those details, so they should just drop the last remaining facade of realism in LIs availability that had very dubious reasons for existance in ME franchise in the first place.

there IS a lot of realism in LIs availability, because TALI IS ROMANCABLE!!!!!!!!!!!111111

[jlb524]

strive wrote...

But it's not 'obvious' that she's into men.

?? What isn't obvious? Her orientation? She states interest/attraction to both genders either to the Warden or NPCs. Does she need to make an announcement of it to the party at camp for it to be obvious?

Yes!  That's a bisexual character with 'good writing'.

They have to make it obvious...shout it to the world "Hey!  I like men and women!!"  This has to occur independent of PC gender or romance...so her showing interest for a romance male Warden doesn't count for 'man liking', just as her showing interest for a female PC doesn't count as 'female liking'.  But there's Marjolaine to take care of that.

These are not my standards, btw.  I think this is ridiculous.

[pmac_tk421]

IsaacShep wrote...

ME1 & ME2 romances summary:

Straight ManShep: Liara, Ashley, Miranda, Jack, Tali, Kelly + Consort sex + Samara/Morinth/Shiala/Gianna flirting

Straight FemShep: Kaidan, Jacob, Thane, Garrus

Lesbian FemShep: Liara, Kelly + Consort sex + Samara/Morinth/Shiala flirting

Gay ManShep:


You were saying FemShep is screwed and BioWare is promoting ****** romances at the expense of hetero options? Come again?

0/10 for the OP.

Ya, in his straight female section, he left out Jacob. Seriously enough with the god damn whing and QQing. Don't get me wrong I support has S/S romances in ME3, not that I'll use them but as a pro gay person I'm good with it. Just stop whining about it.

[shepskisaac]

kiti.the.great wrote...

there IS a lot of realism in LIs availability, because TALI IS ROMANCABLE!!!!!!!!!!!111111

Alien romances and esp. Tali's one only add to how ridiculous locking out romances based only on gender is in ME franchise.

[Harmless Citizen]

All right, I'm just going to put it out there - I did not figure out that Leliana was bisexual (never really think about characters' sexuality because I don't give a ******) until she started hitting on the Warden. Am I just slow?

...Of course, I didn't realize Liara's romantic feelings for Shepard until LotSB.

...O lord.

[goofyomnivore]

@jlb

You asked me to elaborate on them being presented as bisexual, "when or why" or something. I just said how they are and what it is. I don't think it is good writing either, but making everyone bi doesn't fix it if anything it supports those standards you don't agree with.

Ideally they add details and realism, but like Isaac pointed out they probably will never. I believe making pre determined orientations create better written romances as well. Ideally they would make it equal service too, not the 9 hetero 1 ****** ratio Mass Effect has. Making everyone bi is a step in the opposite direction of adding detail, just my 2 cents.

Modifié par strive, 03 décembre 2011 - 09:20 .

[billy the squid]

someone else wrote...

BroShep, as we all know has a virtual hareem of choices -  three humans as well as two exotics - that BW thinks he may need homosexual options as well - Jeez, why not throw in a sheep or two while your covering all the bases.

....

BW may think its really 'with-it' to promote homoerotic relationships at the expense of heterosexual ones - but that ain't me babe, nor my sheps, Bro or Fem.  

I said it once and I'll say it again.

So long as they don't just completely disregard previous decisions, personalities of characters being damaged by the requirement to implement such a system and it is handled subtly; whereby the player actually has to progress through several specific dialogues and branches before the option is available. Then I don't mind it, really the s/s is an issue of implementation rather than anything else.

And yes, having a more nuanced dialoge system is important in this, paticularly with the romances.

Modifié par billy the squid, 03 décembre 2011 - 09:22 .

[Mr.House]

Clearly all bisexuals must be like Zev and Izzy.

[kiti.the.great]

IsaacShep wrote...

kiti.the.great wrote...

there IS a lot of realism in LIs availability, because TALI IS ROMANCABLE!!!!!!!!!!!111111

Alien romances and esp. Tali's one only add to how ridiculous locking out romances based only on gender is in ME franchise.

fanservice for Talibans = profit
fanservice for Garrus fans = profit
fanservice for s/s romances supporters = no profit
fanservice for Cerberus/TIM/Miranda/Jack/Thane/Jacob fans = no profit

simple BW's logic

[AdmiralCheez]

IsaacShep wrote...

Alien romances and esp. Tali's one only add to how ridiculous locking out romances based only on gender is in ME franchise.

No kidding.  I can bang a giant cricket-chicken and a fish-lizard, but sorry, the spunky human marine is off-limits.

Meanwhile, squid-women and bird-women are okay, but the cute and level-headed lieutenant?  Fuhgeddaboudit.

[someone else]

[quote]AdmiralCheez wrote...

[quote]someone else wrote...
 Sexuality is one character trait, one that doesn't even need to be defined to have a good character.  In the end, doing so only restricts content.[/quote]

no question - we have no need to know or care about Holmes and Watson's relationship, which we all take to be typically victorian and proper, but its not part of the story.

With all deference to your own stated preferences, sexual orientation tends to be rather well-defined for the majority - IMO it is abject pandering for BW to make everyone potentially available to Shep's blandishments - For instance, Ashley with her strong family story, religious grounding, and conventional values would unconvincing and out of character exploring a Lesbian choice - OTH it is hard to imagine Jack not exploring every option that strikes her fancy.   Kaiden is introspective and is experienced with his own vulnerability enough to make him a far more plausible candidate for a broshep LI than Jake (although extreme macho types are always a bit suspect..)[/quote]

[qoute]  Sorry, only sentinels get to play this level.[/quote]

...I hear a good shotgun vanguard can be a real b**ch...we'll see.

Modifié par someone else, 03 décembre 2011 - 09:19 .

[slimgrin]

It looks like this has devolved into my favorite topic. The bi-button.

Modifié par slimgrin, 03 décembre 2011 - 09:20 .

[jlb524]

strive wrote...

@jlb

You asked me to elaborate on them being presented as bisexual, "when or why" or something. I just said how they are and what it is. I don't think it is good writing either, but making everyone bi doesn't fix it if anything it supports those standards you don't agree with.

Well then, how does one write a 'good' bisexual character?

Why is Leliana a 'good' bisexual character?

Why aren't the DA2 romances 'good'?  Let's say, Merrill's?  Why is it cheap?

I think the reason is that, with Leliana, the other female is Morrigan who's 'straight' or whatever but with Merrill, the other female is Isabela...who's also 'bisexual'....and that cheapens it.

[kiti.the.great]

AdmiralCheez wrote...
No kidding. I can bang a giant cricket-chicken and a fish-lizard, but sorry, the spunky human marine is off-limits.

i LOVE YOU 

[Sherbet Lemon]

strive wrote...

Characters do have a set of beliefs of course...the point is that they will still romance a Shepard that does things that go against their beliefs....all you have to do is press the right option at the right time. That's 'cheap'.

By appearance, I mean like...Miranda will still date Ugly Shepard.

Those issues aren't romance exclusive. Why doesn't Samara curb stomp Zaeed for putting refinery workers in danger. Why doesn't Wynne rat you out for being a blood mage? Cut content and too many details to account for. I see your point though might as well extend it into the romances. But I'd rather they add those details in than just expand the status quo everywhere else.

1.  The Wynne situation breaks the game (and the narrative) if you can't pass the persuade check.  You wouldn't be able to get support from either camp (Templar and Mages) and there's no third alternative. 

2.  Samara swears to do whatever Shepard wishes and that oath trumps her justicar code.  Zaeed is part of Shepard's crew...

Story and narrative are important, but the game's balance also has to be considered.  They are instrinsically linked.  In a perfect world there would be endless variants.  Game developer's sources are finite and so cuts have to be made somewhere.  Offering the all bi scenario gives more player freedom.

[billy the squid]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

Alien romances and esp. Tali's one only add to how ridiculous locking out romances based only on gender is in ME franchise.

No kidding.  I can bang a giant cricket-chicken and a fish-lizard, but sorry, the spunky human marine is off-limits.

Meanwhile, squid-women and bird-women are okay, but the cute and level-headed lieutenant?  Fuhgeddaboudit.

Oooh don't let Hathur catch you saying that about Garrus, retribution shall be swift. Probably of the fluffy variety, but retribution none the less.

[someone else]

bas_kon wrote...

I lol'd A LOT reading the OP's post, I bet he doesn't even have a fem shep. He's just another BRO straight teen guy in disguise trying desesperately to bash gay male shep... just lame lol

you're sorely misinformed - and something of a flamer