408 réponses à ce sujet

[AdmiralCheez]

someone else wrote...

no question - we have no need to know or care about Holmes and Watson's relationship, which we all take to be typically victorian and proper, but its not part of the story.

Indeed.  Same with Spock and Kirk--are they best bros or in love as the slashers like to say?  Who cares--the important part is that they trust one anothe enough to die for each other.

With all deference to your own stated preferences, sexual orientation tends to be rather well-defined for the majority - IMO it is abject pandering for BW to make everyone potentially available to Shep's blandishments - For instance, Ashley with her strong family story, religious grounding, and conventional values would unconvincing and out of character exploring a Lesbian choice - OTH it is hard to imagine Jack not exploring every option that strikes her fancy.   Kaiden is introspective and is experienced with his own vulnerability enough to make him a far more plausible candidate for a broshep LI than Jake (although extreme macho types are always a bit suspect..)

Oh.  My.  God.  Stereotype f*cking harder, why don't you?

Being tightly knit with your family and believing in a god DOES NOT MEAN YOU ARE STRAIGHT.

Having a wild, out of control life that involves a lot of drugs, violence, and bad language DOES NOT MEAN YOU ARE GAY.

Being sensitive and soft-spoken DOES NOT MAKE YOU GAY.

Being reserved and traditionally masculine DOES NOT MAKE YOU STRAIGHT.

FOR F*CK'S SAKE.

...I hear a good shotgun vanguard can be a real b**ch...we'll see.

You're missing the point.  Would YOU like to miss out on the coolest mission in the game just because you're playing the wrong class?

[goofyomnivore]

Well then, how does one write a 'good' bisexual character?

"good" is subjective my idea nor yours is universal. I think the romance having small differences between genders would be a good start.

Why aren't the DA2 romances 'good'? Let's say, Merrill's? Why is it cheap?

There is no difference from male or female? Leliana and Zevran both have multiple examples of tiny details, party banter, romance dialogue, etc. In Dragon Age 2 it is one size fits all. I think Merrill says one extra thing to a female. That is creating static romances rather than dynamic ones. I'm not bisexual so I can't speak, but I'd imagine there are differences however small between dating a man and a women.

For the record I like Merrill's romance. It isn't cheap or anything. I just don't see how it is "bisexual" it is more like Hawkesexual.

Modifié par strive, 03 décembre 2011 - 09:30 .

[AdmiralCheez]

kiti.the.great wrote...

i LOVE YOU 

*cough*

A devilishly handsome giant cricket-chicken.

Buahahaha.

[slimgrin]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

You know, I am personally offended by all this bi = cheap nonsense.

Seriously, it's not like I'm cheap and sleazy just because I can fall in love with/be attracted to either gender.

God damn it, you people.

This has nothing to do with you or your orientation. This is the mistake I see so often in the 'other' thread. It has everything to do with the game and its story structure. 

On topic: has femshep been short changed? I supoose she has. But things can only go up from the Jacob romance. 

Modifié par slimgrin, 03 décembre 2011 - 09:29 .

[kiti.the.great]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

kiti.the.great wrote...

i LOVE YOU 

*cough*

A devilishly handsome giant cricket-chicken.

Buahahaha.

that doesn't change a thing, it just a funny funny

[AdmiralCheez]

slimgrin wrote...

This has nothing to do with you or your orientation. This is a mistake I see so often in the 'other' thread. It has everything to do with the game and its story structure.

You missed some of the other comments.

Seriously, I even get sh*t from gay people, man.

[AdmiralCheez]

kiti.the.great wrote...

that doesn't change a thing, it just a funny funny

Why thank you.

Garrus, stop being so damn easy to make fun of.  I can do this in my sleep.

[jlb524]

strive wrote...
There is no difference from male or female? Leliana and Zevran both have multiple examples of tiny details, party banter, romance dialogue, etc. In Dragon Age 2 it is one size fits all. I think Merrill says one extra thing to a female. That is creating static romances rather than dynamic ones. I'm not bisexual so I can't speak, but I'd imagine there are differences however small between dating a man and a women.

There are differences in Merrill's romance and all the others in DA2 based on gender.  Though, I don't see why it is always necessary...some LIs might not care as much as others about gender...that doesn't make them any less realistic or make them cheap.  

So...you are okay with the 'all bi' thing as long as the romances differ a bit?

And what about with other factors?  Should romances go different ways based on morality?  Like, paragon vs. renegade?

Earthborn vs. Spacer Shepard?

slimgrin wrote...

This has nothing to do with you or your orientation. This is the mistake I see so often in the 'other' thread. It has everything to do with the game and its story structure. 

No you don't...you completely miss the point again.

Modifié par jlb524, 03 décembre 2011 - 09:33 .

[Harmless Citizen]

All right, I'm just going to put it out there - I did not figure out that Leliana was bisexual (never really think about characters' sexuality because I don't give a ******) until she started hitting on the Warden. Am I just slow?

...Of course, I didn't realize Liara's romantic feelings for Shepard until LotSB.

I'm guessing I was the only one, then.

...

Well, damn.

[kumquats]

A lot of bull**** going on. The Juhani bug never cheapened the romance!

As an explanation: Juhani is a lesbian LI in Kotor. A bug in Kotor made her available for male characters in the unpatched version of the game.
Making a LI bisexual doesn't change ****. It only makes the LI available for both genders, nothing more and nothing less.

The only thing BW did wrong was to implement to many romance options in ME2, it was simply to much!
And still some people demand more. wtf

Modifié par kumquats, 03 décembre 2011 - 09:34 .

[kiti.the.great]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

kiti.the.great wrote...

that doesn't change a thing, it just a funny funny

Why thank you.

Garrus, stop being so damn easy to make fun of.  I can do this in my sleep.

garrus is one of my favourite characters tbh
but still
GIANT CRICKET-CHICKEN, COME ON
sounds even better than chickenfeet space gypsy

[BlueMagitek]

The good Admiral seems to be having a meltdown. >.>

I agree, romances should be more restricted based on what you've done, in addition to gender. For example, if you continue to demean or go against Garrus' wishes, no Garrus romance. Or if you continually support Cerberus, no Jack romance, if you actively go against Cerberus, no Miranda/Jacob romance. etc.

The problem is, romance is just a side plot and they shouldn't concern themselves too much with it (especially when they need to focus more on friendship and team interaction).

[slimgrin]

BlueMagitek wrote...

I agree, romances should be more restricted based on what you've done, in addition to gender.

Exactly.

[jlb524]

kumquats wrote...
As an explanation: Juhani is a lesbian LI in Kotor. A bug in Kotor made her available for male characters in the unpatched version of the game.
Making a LI bisexual doesn't change ****. It only makes the LI available for both genders, nothing more and nothing less.

Right.

They should have left her romance go...there was no reason to make it exclusive to females.

The 'bug' didn't effect my female Revan's romance with her and didn't cheapen it...why should I care if some dude Revan down the street is doing the romance too?  

[shepskisaac]

slimgrin wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

I agree, romances should be more restricted based on what you've done, in addition to gender.

Exactly.

And BioWare's free do it like that in ther future games. In ME, it didn't happen and it's not gonna happen in ME3, there wasn't morals & actions relalism and there won't be in ME3.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 03 décembre 2011 - 09:42 .

[slimgrin]

jlb524 wrote...

kumquats wrote...
As an explanation: Juhani is a lesbian LI in Kotor. A bug in Kotor made her available for male characters in the unpatched version of the game.
Making a LI bisexual doesn't change ****. It only makes the LI available for both genders, nothing more and nothing less.

Right.

They should have left her romance go...there was no reason to make it exclusive to females.

Except if she was written as a lesbian.

Modifié par slimgrin, 03 décembre 2011 - 09:43 .

[someone else]

[quote]AdmiralCheez wrote...

[quote]someone else wrote...

[quote]With all deference to your own stated preferences, sexual orientation tends to be rather well-defined for the majority - IMO it is abject pandering for BW to make everyone potentially available to Shep's blandishments - For instance, Ashley with her strong family story, religious grounding, and conventional values would unconvincing and out of character exploring a Lesbian choice - OTH it is hard to imagine Jack not exploring every option that strikes her fancy.   Kaiden is introspective and is experienced with his own vulnerability enough to make him a far more plausible candidate for a broshep LI than Jake (although extreme macho types are always a bit suspect..)[/quote]
Oh.  My.  God.  Stereotype f*cking harder, why don't you?[/quote]

No - not my intention - my point was that most people do have a pref, one way or another - you can write it anyway you want - and I suppose your particular headcanon can make up an appropriate backstory for any choice.  But in-game, you'd expect a few of the characters to have that choice part of their make-up, as it is in the real world 

and sure, these are "stereotypical" but stereotypes are often no more than generalities, so these are at least plausible.   But easily, you could cast Mira as so alienatd by her father as to have an aversion to close relations with men generally, just as easily as seeing her in need of approval and acceptance by a father figure. 


[quote]...I hear a good shotgun vanguard can be a real b**ch...we'll see.[/quote]
[quote] You're missing the point.  Would YOU like to miss out on the coolest mission in the game just because you're playing the wrong class?  [/quote]

?? How would I miss out running as a vanguard vs sentinel (outside of being dead alot)?

[Harmless Citizen]

Out of curiosity, how did you manage that? Liara unavoidably hits on you in ME1 (which makes me sad, because I have to turn her down most of the time).

I haven't the faintest. The see it clearly in subsequent playthroughs, so my guess is that it's because, in my first few runs, since my permanent squad was Ashley and Wrex, I used her but once (for Benezia). I also could never find since she sequestered herself in the darkest reaches of the ship where I didn't dear tread because I'm afraid of Dr Chakwas. When I finally did get around to speaking to her, i doubt I exhausted all the dialogue paths....though I DO remember her telling Shepard that she needed to change the galaxy's mind about humans. How I managed to miss her lines about being "interested in [the Commander]."

I didn't suspect anything until the romantic action comedy flavour LotSB had, and I didn't really catch on until they made double rape faces at each other when Shep invited Liara up to the Normandy.

[jlb524]

slimgrin wrote...
Except if she was written as a lesbian.

Really?

That's news to me.

[Harmless Citizen]

I can**
Find her**

Ah yes, "iPads"...

[jlb524]

This is what I see:

BW romances go on for years with no PC restrictions on romancing LIs besides gender.

General fan reaction: *silence*

DA2 comes out and the gender restriction is finally removed.

Fan reaction 1: NOOOOOOOO! That's so unrealistic/cheap/immersion breaking/etc.!!! We need gender restrictions!

Fan reaction 2: Well...these romances have always lacked realistic restrictions so...now what do you have to say about that?

Fan reaction 1: Then...ah....then bring restrictions for everything! OMG JUST BRING BACK THE GENDER RESTRICTIONS FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT'S HOLY AND RIGHT IN THE WORLD!!

Fan reaction 2: So you'll give up the freedom you've had in previous BW games in regards to romances just for the sake of limiting the choices of homosexual PCs?

Fan reaction 1: Yes!!!!

Modifié par jlb524, 03 décembre 2011 - 09:53 .

[goofyomnivore]

There are differences in Merrill's romance and all the others in DA2 based on gender.

I'm pretty sure Merrill says one extra line. However I never noticed any difference in the build up, party banter, party responses, etc. The others I'm not familiar enough to say for certain on, but I don't recall any difference at all with Isabela. I could be wrong though I haven't played Dragon Age 2 in quite some time.

So...you are okay with the 'all bi' thing as long as the romances differ a bit?

That would be welcomed, but so would the things you mentioned below that. I don't think it is realistic to have all of it though. But even then I don't think it is the ideal solution. Because then we would have threads "why is x's lesbian/gay romance written better than x's hetero --- vise versa?". Or they just limit the romance to one size fits all to avoid conflicts like that. Which then limits the writing, depth and development of romances.

Modifié par strive, 03 décembre 2011 - 09:58 .