408 réponses à ce sujet

[shepskisaac]

jlb524 wrote...

This is what I see:

BW romances go on for years with no PC restrictions on romancing LIs besides gender.

General fan reaction: *silence*

DA2 comes out and the gender restriction is finally removed.

Fan reaction 1: NOOOOOOOO! That's so unrealistic/cheap/immersion breaking/etc.!!! We need gender restrictions!

Fan reaction 2: Well...these romances have always lacked realistic restrictions so...now what do you have to say about that?

Fan reaction 1: Then...ah....then bring restrictions for everything! OMG JUST BRING BACK THE GENDER RESTRICTIONS FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT'S HOLY AND RIGHT IN THE WORLD!!

Fan reaction 2: So you'll give up the freedom you've had in previous BW games in regards to romances just for the sake of limiting the choices of homosexual PCs?

Fan reaction 1: Yes!!!!

100% true.

[Harmless Citizen]

Meh. You'd be straw manning, then. At least in my case, I've always thought the lack of interactive restrictions to be stupid as hell. If I decide to be the devil's personal sonuvab*tch to Kaidan, there is no reason he should show up on Horizon and tell me losing me was like losing a limb.

[Harmless Citizen]

...Unless it was a limb infected with a horrible case of gangrene.

[slimgrin]

jlb524 wrote...

This is what I see:

BW romances go on for years with no PC restrictions on romancing LIs besides gender.

General fan reaction: *silence*

DA2 comes out and the gender restriction is finally removed.

Fan reaction 1: NOOOOOOOO! That's so unrealistic/cheap/immersion breaking/etc.!!! We need gender restrictions!

Fan reaction 2: Well...these romances have always lacked realistic restrictions so...now what do you have to say about that?

Fan reaction 1: Then...ah....then bring restrictions for everything! OMG JUST BRING BACK THE GENDER RESTRICTIONS FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT'S HOLY AND RIGHT IN THE WORLD!!

Fan reaction 2: So you'll give up the freedom you've had in previous BW games in regards to romances just for the sake of limiting the choices of homosexual PCs?

Fan reaction 1: Yes!!!!

Actually yes, that would be the next step in constructing more convincing characters. We lose some freedom, we gain stronger characterization. And more importatnly, Bioware can actually start commenting on important real life topics.

Modifié par slimgrin, 03 décembre 2011 - 09:58 .

[BlueMagitek]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Random Nobody wrote...

All right, I'm just going to put it out there - I did not figure out that Leliana was bisexual (never really think about characters' sexuality because I don't give a ******) until she started hitting on the Warden. Am I just slow?

...Of course, I didn't realize Liara's romantic feelings for Shepard until LotSB.

I'm guessing I was the only one, then.

...

Well, damn.

Out of curiosity, how did you manage that? Liara unavoidably hits on you in ME1 (which makes me sad, because I have to turn her down most of the time).

If you get Liara last (recruit her after Virmire), you can't romance her, so just do that.  The game even rewards you by changing a few scenes and giving Liara a miniature meltdown.

IsaacShep wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

I agree, romances should be more restricted based on what you've done, in addition to gender.

Exactly.

And
BioWare's free do it like that in ther future games. In ME, it didn't
happen and it's not gonna happen in ME3 so there's absolutely no reason
to stick to "OK but let's keep the sole gender restrction and pretend
realism is actually our designer idea even though nothing else in
romances availability is realistic".

What's the problem with characters having their own preferences?  It isn't only gender; in ME 1, if you attempt to romance Ash & Liara, Ash will turn you down (no threesome for you!) while Liara was fine with it.   Tali's example was already brought up. 

[mauro2222]

I still don't get how being bisexual hurts the character.

Edit: OH MY GOD! I finally could change my avatar.

Modifié par mauro2222, 03 décembre 2011 - 10:00 .

[Harmless Citizen]

No one ever said it hurt the character.

[jlb524]

strive wrote...
I'm pretty sure Merrill says one extra line. However I never noticed any difference in the build up, party banter, party responses, etc. The others I'm not familiar enough to say for certain on, but I don't recall any difference at all with Isabela. I could be wrong though I haven't played Dragon Age 2 in quite some time.

There are less differences in Merrill's than Isabela's but there are a few differences.  From what I've heard, Anders has significant differences as well.

I'm not sure why that's a bad thing..perhaps Merrill puts less importance on gender when interacting with a person then does Anders and Isabela? 

strive wrote...
That would be welcomed, but so would the things you mentioned below. I don't think it is realistic to have all of it though. But even then I don't think it is the ideal solution. Because then we would have threads "why is x's lesbian/gay romance written better than x's hetero --- vise versa?". Or they just limit the romance to one size fits all to avoid conflicts like that. Which then limits the writing, depth and development of romances.

Complaint threads?  No!  The horror!  That like...never happens.  People don't ever complain about one LI getting more content or anything.

Where do you draw the line on 'realism' for video game romances?

What's wrong with 'one size fits all'?  It's worked in the past.  These romances aren't all that gendered to begin with.  Hell, I've done a lot of female romances that were 'hetero-only' with a female PC using a mod...and they mostly worked minus pronoun mishaps.  

Random Nobody wrote...
Meh. You'd be straw manning, then. At least in my case, I've always thought the lack of interactive restrictions to be stupid as hell. If I decide to be the devil's personal sonuvab*tch to Kaidan, there is no reason he should show up on Horizon and tell me losing me was like losing a limb.

Am I?

I don't recall seeing complaints such as these until recently.

That's quite interesting, wouldn't you say?

Modifié par jlb524, 03 décembre 2011 - 10:04 .

[someone else]

Bisexuality doesn't "hurt" the character - its just out of character for most people - and so shouldn't be presented as the norm - unless its become so by he 22nd Century - if so BW ought to inform us so.

[goofyomnivore]

I still don't get how being bisexual hurts the character.

I don't believe it does. Merrill is bisexual and one of my favorite BioWare characters, Zevran as well.

[shepskisaac]

BlueMagitek wrote...

What's the problem with characters having their own preferences?  It isn't only gender; in ME 1, if you attempt to romance Ash & Liara, Ash will turn you down (no threesome for you!) while Liara was fine with it.   Tali's example was already brought up.

And if you're a serial killer who beats women, Ashley will still be into you. Seriosuly, is it realistic a woman like Ash (or frankly, any female LI in ME franchise) wuld be into a guy like that? Once again, it ain't a problem if characters have preferences. If it's a consistient design idea. But it's not in ME franchise, simple.

[slimgrin]

jlb524 wrote...


What's wrong with 'one size fits all'?  It's worked in the past.  

It won't push the story content of gaming further, that's the problem. I look forward to having more in-depth religious discusions with Ashley in ME3, but Bioware's safety first/pleasae everyone approach might prevent that. 

[BlueMagitek]

IsaacShep wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

What's the problem with characters having their own preferences?  It isn't only gender; in ME 1, if you attempt to romance Ash & Liara, Ash will turn you down (no threesome for you!) while Liara was fine with it.   Tali's example was already brought up.

And if you're a serial killer who beats women, Ashley will still be into you. Seriosuly, is it realistic a woman like Ash (or frankly, any female LI in ME franchise) wuld be into a guy like that? Once again, it ain't a problem if characters have preferences. If it's a consistient design idea. But it's not in ME franchise, simple.

I must have missed the choice in ME1 where I could not only be a serial killer, but also beat women.  Off the top of my head, you can punch the reporter (who wants you to do it) and you can kill that woman if you've got a Mindoir background.  But please, show me where this option is.

[kumquats]

Gender restrictions are stupid.
What made Juhani an awesome character is the fact that she will fight Dark Side Revan. While all the Mass Effect LI will say: " You are a massmurderer Shepard, kiss me."

That's the problem with ME, not the gender thing. Don't compare Mass Effect with Dragon Age. Kotor is still the standard both games have to live up to.

[Harmless Citizen]

I don't recall seeing complaints such as these until recently.

That's quite interesting, wouldn't you say?

I wouldn't know. I've been registered here only a short while (though I did some infrequent lurking for a year prior), and all I've seen is b*tching, b*tching everywhere. I'm sure this has been disguised to death, exhumed, then put back into the grave again, ad nauseam. That being said, at least in the case of this particular thread, yes, implying that most of us feel threatened by homosexuality (or have a problem with it in general) is straw manning.

For my own part, the romances matter very little to me, I'd just like better interaction.

[someone else]

...seems bi-sexuality is the black hole rail of the romance forums - like cerberus is for the general section - exerting inexorable gravitational force on all thought...I wonder if the human reaper is gay?

[BlueMagitek]

Oh, Human Reaper is a total omnisexual; getting the traits of all those slurpied humans.

[slimgrin]

someone else wrote...

...seems bi-sexuality is the black hole rail of the romance forums - like cerberus is for the general section - exerting inexorable gravitational force on all thought...I wonder if the human reaper is gay?

It is. One side wants options, which I suppose I can understand. The other side wants consistent characterization.

So on topic. should Femshep have as many romance options? Maybe not. Maybe a lack of romance options could be offset by some other advantage to playing femshep, like exclusive dialog options, etc. Afterall, no one plays head games better than women. 

( I kid )

Modifié par slimgrin, 03 décembre 2011 - 10:21 .

[Ryzaki]

Human Reaper has a single target sexuality. It's love is reserved only for shep.

[Laser Beam]

someone else wrote...

BroShep, as we all know has a virtual hareem of choices -  three humans as well as two exotics - that BW thinks he may need homosexual options as well - Jeez, why not throw in a sheep or two while your covering all the bases.
  

He says this, yet you reward him with 9 thread pages. We have a brillant fanbase here.

Modifié par Laser Beam, 03 décembre 2011 - 10:17 .

[someone else]

did you notice if it was a little boy reaper or a little girl reaperette? I want to buy it some onesies and need to know what color...

[goofyomnivore]

What's wrong with 'one size fits all'? It's worked in the past. These romances aren't all that gendered to begin with. Hell, I've done a lot of female romances that were 'hetero-only' with a female PC using a mod...and they mostly worked minus pronoun mishaps.

I would rather have one romance for each gender and orientation fleshed out and designed with that in mind. Rather than all of those romances working around having to service each gender and orientation. It would be awesome if that extended to morality, beliefs, appearance, etc. Rome wasn't built in a day though. I think making everyone bi goes in the opposite direction of adding those type of details.

Complaint threads?  No!  The horror!  That like...never happens.  People
don't ever complain about one LI getting more content or anything.

It was a trivial example, but one that is relevant since we're on a message board that loves to overreact and make mindless topics. I'd also consider the fact that Tali's fandom was strong enough to influence Mass Effect 3.

Modifié par strive, 03 décembre 2011 - 10:20 .

[someone else]

Laser Beam wrote...

someone else wrote...

BroShep, as we all know has a virtual hareem of choices -  three humans as well as two exotics - that BW thinks he may need homosexual options as well - Jeez, why not throw in a sheep or two while your covering all the bases.
  

He says this, yet you reward him with 9 thread pages. We have a brillant fanbase here.

you got a problem with sheep?  ...step outside.