580 réponses à ce sujet

[Andorfiend]

Michel1986 wrote...
That is not the point of mass effect 2, the point is to get a elite team that you need in me3.

No it isn't. It can't be. Because you can bring a save from ME 2 into ME 3 where every single crewmemeber you've ever met from both games is dead except for the VS and Liara. Every single one.

So if ME 3 is based around using those characters, what the hell are they left to work with? And because of that brilliant lack of foresight, they almost have to write the Dirty Dozen out of ME 3 because otherwise they are left with huge amounts of game space that some players won't have access to.

Personally? I'd rather they have canon Shep bring the whole team through, and write the game assuming we're not all going out of our way to kill off friends in job-lots. That way I can enjoy the fruits of my "whole team lives" playthrough and someone who came out of it solo can enjoy roaming the dusty, friendless, wasteland they apparently wanted.

[Troika0]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Okay, I can't really comment on that. Without spoiling it, is their goal interesting?

Their goal sort of encompases a theme that hasn't really been expounded upon at all across the entirety of the franchise (games, books, comics...) and is ultimately very rushed in it's execution. Whether it's interesting in and of itself, I suppose that will in the end be up to you.

Modifié par Troika0, 04 décembre 2011 - 05:21 .

[AlexXIV]

They can write ME3 like nobody died in DA2. Those who import with no squadmates left, have no squadmates in ME3, bad luck. If you think about it, Shep can die in ME2. That doesn't mean that it is possible to play with a dead Shepard in ME3. New players no import) will have all squadmates available. I don't see the big problem.

[Candidate 88766]

Troika0 wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Okay, I can't really comment on that. Without spoiling it, is their goal interesting?

Their goal sort of encompases a theme that hasn't really been expounded upon at all across the entirety franchise and is ultimately very rushed in it's execution.

Thats a shame. I've always found the characters more interesting than the main plot, but I still want it to be good. I'll make my mind up when the game comes out.

[xxSgt_Reed_24xx]

Troika0 wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Okay, I can't really comment on that. Without spoiling it, is their goal interesting?

Their goal sort of encompases a theme that hasn't really been expounded upon at all across the entirety franchise and is ultimately very rushed in it's execution.

That's a good way to put it.

ME2 should have been about finding out about this goal or at least hinting at it or something. It's like they're winging it... 

[Michel1986]

xxSgt_Reed_24xx wrote...

Michel1986 wrote...

squee365 wrote...

Also, let us not forget ME2 introduced us to the Illusive Man.

That is not the point of mass effect 2, the point is to get a elite team that you need in me3.

Um... nooooo...

they say it in the game. It's to recruit a badass team to journey through the Omega 4 relay and stop the collectors.

The collectors are not the main problem in the me series , harbinger or howerver that reaper is called took control over the collectors to attack the humans. The team you recruited is actually ment to destroy the reapers in the ME3 game.

I could kill that collector base without a team after all

Modifié par Michel1986, 04 décembre 2011 - 05:15 .

[Troika0]

AlexXIV wrote...

They can write ME3 like nobody died in DA2. Those who import with no squadmates left, have no squadmates in ME3, bad luck. If you think about it, Shep can die in ME2. That doesn't mean that it is possible to play with a dead Shepard in ME3. New players no import) will have all squadmates available. I don't see the big problem.

The problem is the overall lack of direction for what was sold as a planned trilogy. The problem is that while new subplots emerge and characters shuffle around into new roles, there's no sense of any planned, long term beats or targets that the writers are looking to hit.

The problem is that the only thing providing any cohesion to the narrative is Shepard and the simple premise of "discover reapers -> stop reapers;" no themes, no motifs, nothing.

Modifié par Troika0, 04 décembre 2011 - 05:18 .

[xxSgt_Reed_24xx]

Michel1986 wrote...

xxSgt_Reed_24xx wrote...

Michel1986 wrote...

squee365 wrote...

Also, let us not forget ME2 introduced us to the Illusive Man.

That is not the point of mass effect 2, the point is to get a elite team that you need in me3.

Um... nooooo...

they say it in the game. It's to recruit a badass team to journey through the Omega 4 relay and stop the collectors.

The collectors are not the main problem in the me series , harbinger or howerver that reaper is called took control over the collectors to attack the humans. The team you recruited is actually ment to destroy the reapers in the ME3 game.

I could kill that collector base without a team after all

While true, that's not the reason you recruited those people. You recruited them for that mission. Now that it is over, nothing says they have to stay.

[CerberusWarrior]

I fully agree TroikaO this franchise has no foundation as to what the series is about Star Trek and Star Wars have a core story to them . They have rushed it so they could get 3 games done and move on to their new Ip

[eye basher]

The point of ME2 simple to ****** of the haters is just one big troll and considering the reaction it was very effective.

[Ryzaki]

iakus wrote...
True enough.  But at no point was their assertion ever contradicted by anything in the game.  So how were we to know they were being morons?

Shep's, at least was proven wrong later on.

By using common sense and realizing the collectors attacking Earth on their own was laughable.

It's too bad Shep's too busy derping to point it out.

[Labrev]

To introduce the true new mascot of the Mass Effect series:




Note: anyone who quotes this and responds with a "lol i fix it for you" is a ****-gargling dbag.

[Sgt Stryker]

xxSgt_Reed_24xx wrote...

Troika0 wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Okay, I can't really comment on that. Without spoiling it, is their goal interesting?

Their goal sort of encompases a theme that hasn't really been expounded upon at all across the entirety franchise and is ultimately very rushed in it's execution.

That's a good way to put it.

ME2 should have been about finding out about this goal or at least hinting at it or something. It's like they're winging it... 

They probably are, which is really no surprise to me, since that's exactly what a lot of series do. (for example Lost, Battlestar Galactica)

[xxSgt_Reed_24xx]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

xxSgt_Reed_24xx wrote...

Troika0 wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Okay, I can't really comment on that. Without spoiling it, is their goal interesting?

Their goal sort of encompases a theme that hasn't really been expounded upon at all across the entirety franchise and is ultimately very rushed in it's execution.

That's a good way to put it.

ME2 should have been about finding out about this goal or at least hinting at it or something. It's like they're winging it... 

They probably are, which is really no surprise to me, since that's exactly what a lot of series do. (for example Lost, Battlestar Galactica)

Lost sucked.

I'm in the progress of watching all the BSG shows... and I am currently loving it. lol ... So, I suppose winging it can go either way. Here's to hoping it's more like BSG. lol
take from that what you will.

Modifié par xxSgt_Reed_24xx, 04 décembre 2011 - 06:55 .

[Iakus]

Dexi wrote...

For those who question ME2's role...

Imagine, if you can, playing ME3 without having played ME2 before, just ME1.

So you do an ME1 run and then go to ME3. You'd be clueless to what's happening in the game...

Whoaaa, what's with these many reapers? Whooaah, how can they mutate things and do those husks... Whoaaah, Hackett? How did Garrus end up being so cool? Why is Liara Shadow Broker?
How did the Reapers get here without the Citadel? What do you mean genophage cure, I destroyed it on Virmire!
Cerberus, why so many of you? Who is TIM, my father?
A reaper AI on my ship? What? And why is the Normandy so biiig and cool?

And so on...

Reapers:  "We are legion. The time of our return is coming. Our numbers will darken the sky of every world. You cannot escape your doom. "  Sovereign, Mass Effect 1

Husks:  Been fighting them since ME1

Hackett:  voice is in ME1.  Only appearance in ME2 is Arrival, a DLC

Garrus:  Bioware pushed a button and something awesome happened.  Coulda happened at any time.

Liara:  Again, DLC

Reapers showing up.  They flew.  Figured that since ME1.  ME2 didn't deal with that at all before Arrival.

Genophage cure:  Okay that one's a good point.  

Cerberus:  My Sheps killed dozens of them in ME1.  They must be a pretty big organization.  Kinda odd how they're wearing a brightly colored uniform now though...

TIM:  Leader of Cerberus.  Pretty much all I know after playing ME2

Reaper AI on ship:  Funny I thought she was a human AI with Reaper hardware.  Another wacky Cerberus mad science experiment.  I for one am curious to see why the Alliance doesn't outright delete her.

New improved Normandy:  Another awesome button.

I need ME2's DLC to have more of a clue as to what's going on in ME3 than I need the base game:lol:

[Iakus]

Ryzaki wrote...

iakus wrote...
True enough.  But at no point was their assertion ever contradicted by anything in the game.  So how were we to know they were being morons?

Shep's, at least was proven wrong later on.

By using common sense and realizing the collectors attacking Earth on their own was laughable.

It's too bad Shep's too busy derping to point it out.

Wait, we're bringing common sense into this now?  :innocent:

[Sasie]

I think ME2 fans are about to find relive the experince that the ME1 fans had at ME2's release. We will most likely find that 90% of ME2 been sidelined and are no longer relevant, most squad members been pushed to the side and only the fan favorites matter anymore.

Also before someone jump in and say they are a fan of both games I don't mean that one exclude the other. Merely pointing out that many elements from ME1 was put on hold in ME2 and now ME2 is going to be put on hold in ME3.

[AlexXIV]

Troika0 wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

They can write ME3 like nobody died in DA2. Those who import with no squadmates left, have no squadmates in ME3, bad luck. If you think about it, Shep can die in ME2. That doesn't mean that it is possible to play with a dead Shepard in ME3. New players no import) will have all squadmates available. I don't see the big problem.

Blah blah blub

Can you go into detail what you exactly mean by that? Your statement reads like blah blah blub to me which could count for any game in the world.

[Troika0]

iakus wrote...


Genophage cure:  Okay that one's a good point.  

Nah, that's a completely self-contained story dependent only upon the newly introduced Krogan princess. Maelon's research will likely only be mentioned in passing since no decision from any previous game can close off a plot line; Bioware just doesn't design games that way.

[Troika0]

AlexXIV wrote...

Can you go into detail what you exactly mean by that? Your statement reads like blah blah blub to me which could count for any game in the world.

I'm not certain how intellectually fit I am to prove a negative.

Can you give an example of any sort of theme that the narrative is clearly supporting? Can you point to any long term character arc with some specific development that's being driven towards, necessitating their inclusion beyond the fact that fans would simply like to see them again? I'd tentatively grant you that Wrex has one, but other characters like the Illusive Man have no real stated motivations. Garrus is noteworthy for actually regressing, his side story in ME2 was just a retread of the same character beat covered in the first game. It's a short list of characters who have some tennable hook inviting further development, most just meander through the story, entering and leaving positions for reasons that occur off screen with little supporting exposition as to why.

Now that I think about it, Wrex becoming the Krogan Conan was also a development that took place largely if not entirely off-screen; can't recall if he expressed any sentiment about returning to Tuchanka at the end of ME1. 

Modifié par Troika0, 04 décembre 2011 - 08:11 .

[string3r]

There was no point. The whole game was a just a big side story.

[AlexXIV]

Troika0 wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Can you go into detail what you exactly mean by that? Your statement reads like blah blah blub to me which could count for any game in the world.

I'm not certain how intellectually fit I am to prove a negative.

Can you give an example of any sort of theme that the narrative is clearly supporting? Can you point to any long term character arc with some specific development that's being driven towards, necessitating their inclusion beyond the fact that fans would simply like to see them again? I'd grant you that Wrex has one, but other characters like the Illusive Man have no real stated motivations. Garrus is noteworthy for actually regressing, his side story in ME2 was just a retread of the same character beat covered in the first game. It's a short list of characters who have some tennable hook inviting further development, most just meander through the story, entering and leaving positions for reasons that occur off screen with little supporting exposition as to why.

I'm not certain if I am intellectually fit to answer your question, but I try.

Wrex, Liara, Tali, Ashley/Kaiden. Their story starts in ME1 and I think it is fair to say they all are motivated in some way. They are dragged into Shep's mission. Then 2 years later, you see them again and they have evolved. They have mostly new storylines sheding more light on their character. Tali has returned from her Pilgrimage and is now some sort of Quarian heroess. Liara has recovered Shep's body and is on the hunt for the Shadowbroker to free a friend who helped her she she owes alot. Ashley/Kaiden are back with the Alliance and doing special missions in preparation to become Spectres. Wrex has returned home to Tuchanka trying to get some order in the mess the Krogan species has become.

Shep's motivation is clear enough for me. My Shep is a warhero, thus doing what warheroes do. Going to war and being heroic. You can really find your own reason or ask any soldier or special force member. Ask them why they do this and not pick some sort of safe job? It could be the thrill, adventure, or simply a feeling of duty. My colonist Shep is doing it to help securing the colonies. Which leads up to ME2 when the colonies are being attacked and of course Shepard does not have to think twice to help save them.

I don't know if people require a psychological profile for Shepard why he/she is who she is. I know people like that. Meaning soldiers who are soldiers out of a sense of duty. In one case it is because he is from a family of soldiers, another case is because he always liked war stories and everything about military. There are multiple reasons why one would do that.

Also there are side characters like Anderson and Udina who also change through the games. The Illusive Man has only shown in ME2 so we don't know how he changes in ME3.

So the overarcing story is about the Reapers. That's really hard to miss I don't know what to say. It's like the Empire in Star Wars or the Romulan Empire in Star Trek or the Cylons in Battle Star Galactica or the Goa'uld/Wraiths in Stargate Atlantis or the Shadows in Babylon 5. Why is it right there and if Bioware is doing something along that without even copy pasting it is wrong? I don't know.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 04 décembre 2011 - 08:16 .

[LegionMan]

witchee2woman wrote...

i just hope they make areas u can go to (cities) bigger and not like in ME2 where u ran from point A to point B. and out of the game info ive seen on ME3, arrival was the only event from ME2 talked about.

Hasn't it been confirmed we can visit multiple cities on a planet?

[Troika0]

While I'm hardly well versed in the genre, I fail to see how Bioware couldn't be accused pilfering from other works.

To the point, however, while you've given me a summary of where individual characters are and what they've been doing, you haven't outlined any trajectory as to where they are going. What arc has been set up and is still pending for a resolution? I suppose Tali has the recapturing of her home world, but that doesn't really advance her character in any way.

Liara received a pretty drastic revamp, but I don't really see what for. I suppose it fits into some "coming of age" plot with a need to become more assertive and self-sufficient, but the set up and the execution both occur off-screen leaving only the conclusion shown in ME2 and no sign as to where else she has to go.

Ashley and Kaidan are the worst of the lot--in my opinion--because they didn't exactly grow, they just became the same character. I've said this so many times and I'm going to keep harping on it, the fact that these two characters--with such diametrical temperaments and beliefs--should end up in the same place, making the same decisions, and even speaking the same lines just strains credibility and eliminates any individuality they once had.

The Illusive man was a big misstep. For all the money spent hiring Martin Sheen, they gave him nothing to really work with. He's a standard man behind the curtain and you know as much about him at the beginning of the game as you do at the end. You know he's for humanity, but that's all and it's way too broad to be any kind of an ethos. What are his long term plans, what future does he envision, his morals, his philosophies and why does he hold to them? All these questions are left nebulous as he fades into the background as a secondary threat.

Shepard is Shepard. He's the problem every rpg grapples with: a central character that has to remain completely static for the sake of player agency; a hole where ordinarily the most important character in any narrative goes.

For the most part, though, characters just remain the same. Anderson and Udina are the same as they ever were and I don't know how you can argue to the contrary.

I feel like I'm not explaining myself well.

[DadeLeviathan]

Plot bridge. ME2 is to ME1 and ME3 what Two Towers is to FoTR and RotK in the Lord of the Rings Trilogy. Except it's not a book.