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[CerberusWarrior]

Someone With Mass wrote...

jreezy wrote...

CerberusWarrior still mad about having to fight his idols + the Reapers I see.

It'll wear off.

Nobody will be able to defend Cerberus after the atrocities that happens in ME3 without resorting to the extremely lame "bad writing" excuse.

   





well the whole ME franchise has had bad writing so whats new . Oh and Cerberus doing really bad things wow I am not surprised Bioware is keeping on with its forced idea of making you chose the paragon path because its the only one .  It is lame writing but hey what do you expect from a wanna be Star Trek and Star Wars rip off .

[Someone With Mass]

Told ya.

[Heimdall]

tonnactus wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

Well, as pointed out earlier, the Collecters had more than one ship and this fact was alluded to in the game, so the point is moot.

And where they were the entire game? Why they didnt protected such an important project like the human reaper with more then one ship? 

Presumably they were out looking for more human colonists, or did not have time to launch before the Normandy appeared to have been destroyed.  Or the Collecters underestimated the strength of the SR-2 and only deployed one ship since that was all it took to destroy the SR-1.  It's not as if the Reapers are known for their respect for their enemies.

[jasonsantanna]

Maybe ME2 would have felt smoother plot wise if the Geth Heretics had stayed the main antagonist. . .
Maybe it should have been written where human colonies were still being abducted but not only to build a human Reaper but making human Geth Hybrids as the next phase of evolution and the Geth would be the henchmen behind Harbinger ,then maybe along the way turian , asari, krogan and batarian colonies coming up missing too with the same sort of experiments as the human geth hybrid , leading each species to think the other is abducting their colonies giving a distrust with in the galaxy, but Shep and crew have uncovered the truth . . . which would lead into ME3 and give an explanation of  the new enemies that appear from each of those species and also plot wise for ME3 giving Shep another reason to help to unite the galaxy for battle with the Reapers

Modifié par jasonsantanna, 06 décembre 2011 - 10:45 .

[Candidate 88766]

Lord Aesir wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

Well, as pointed out earlier, the Collecters had more than one ship and this fact was alluded to in the game, so the point is moot.

And where they were the entire game? Why they didnt protected such an important project like the human reaper with more then one ship? 

Presumably they were out looking for more human colonists, or did not have time to launch before the Normandy appeared to have been destroyed.  Or the Collecters underestimated the strength of the SR-2 and only deployed one ship since that was all it took to destroy the SR-1.  It's not as if the Reapers are known for their respect for their enemies.

Probably something like this. Some of the ships may've been away from the Base, and any docked in the Base may've been empty - a ship that size would need a lot of crew and isn't something you could launch quickly.  
They probably assumed that with the Omega 4 Relay and the Occuli guarding them they wouldn't need more than one ship operational.

[Candidate 88766]

jreezy wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

iakus wrote...

Mac Walters wrote...

I think what fans wonder is: How could the Collectors with one ship endanger all of humanity? including Earth.

A) They had more than a single ship. Eventually they would've had a Reaper.

Wow. Any doubts I had about MW's incompetence have just been eradicated. The man is a moron.

Let me just re-align my expectations of ME3's plot from "bad" to "****ing dismal".

Check it out: "But I have to be honest with you, I need to thank the
fans. One of the best sources of information on Mass Effect is the Mass
Effect Wiki. I often use it myself."

http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:The_Illusive_Man/Mac_Walters_uses_the_ME_Wiki

No comment.

*shakes head*

Good grief.
I suppose I should have known.
Well, that's the last straw for me. I'm not buying, and there's now one less "whiner" on BSN.

Oh BSN, you and your overreactions.

You'd have thought the fact that Mac uses the wiki to double-check facts would lead to a more coherent story, so why people think its a bad thing is beyond me. He didn't write everything in ME, so we can't expect him to know everything off the top of his head. The wiki is very strict about what it has in it, so you can be certain that its right. The fact that Mac is willing to double-check is a good thing.

I also don't understand the 'Mac is a moron' post. The fact that the Collectors had multiple ships (verified in-game, I might add) and would've had a Reaper eventually means that they would've been a threat to all of humanity.

The Collector ship was taken down by the Normandy SR2 - the most advanced ship in the galaxy - but it was able to destroy the original Normandy (most advanced ship in the galaxy at the time) utterly, and was able to destroy multiple Turian ships with minimal damage. Most Alliance ships wouldn't stand a chance against multiple Collector ships, and while I find the idea they coudl've attacked Earth rather silly they could still have been a significant threat.

[ODST 5723]

You've got to look big picutre. Knowing how close Arrival was, it's not that laughable.

You'd have had a ready made processing facility to create Reapers and possibly clone additional Collector troops that would have been saftely protected unless the IFF and Omega-4 relay were compromised. Their battle force would grow with each conquered colony as they increased the number of husks, scions and praetorians. They would likely also be producing additional ships.

Meanwhile, these forces are bolstered by the actual assault force of the Reapers who could have used the Alpha Relay for a blitzkreig attack on any target they wanted to in the galaxy AND they could still isolate systems and communications.

The Collectors weren't a direct assault force on thier own. They were an intelligence and espionage group for the Reapers who would likely also have done a lot of the heavy labor once the main Reaper fleet arrived and that type of role was no longer required and the main phase of the Reaper plan invasion. They had spent years studying the galaxy, its inhabitants and more. They had spread Reaper influence around the galaxy to further their plans through the release of various advanced technologies to lead the galaxy in certain directions. And with an actual Reaper, they likely could have gained the support of the heretic geth in an assault on Earth. And this all would likely have remained a mystery to the Council until it was too late. The Council would have shifted their attention to the Terminus Systems and the Omega-4 relay only to get blindsided.

And if the Collectors went after the Conduit and sent a seeker swarm through it followed by an invasion force, they would have could have had control of the Citadel Relay. It actually begs the questions why they weren't included utilized in ME1 and leaves open whether there was a disconnect between Sovereign and Harbinger or whether the Collectors were repurposed after the Battle of the Citadel.

[Yezdigerd]

Candidate 88766 wrote...
The Collector ship was taken down by the Normandy SR2 - the most advanced ship in the galaxy - but it was able to destroy the original Normandy (most advanced ship in the galaxy at the time) utterly, and was able to destroy multiple Turian ships with minimal damage. Most Alliance ships wouldn't stand a chance against multiple Collector ships, and while I find the idea they coudl've attacked Earth rather silly they could still have been a significant threat.

Except Normandy is frigate, a very small naval vessel designed for patrol and stealth, not combat. Even with it's upgrades it should only have a fraction of the defence and firepower of say a dreadnought.

[Alex_SM]

Although I like ME2 story, I think it clearly shows ME trilogy plot was never written as a whole.

To make the progression smooth the Collectors should have been shown in the first game, even if it was just for a few minutes.

[Candidate 88766]

Yezdigerd wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...
The Collector ship was taken down by the Normandy SR2 - the most advanced ship in the galaxy - but it was able to destroy the original Normandy (most advanced ship in the galaxy at the time) utterly, and was able to destroy multiple Turian ships with minimal damage. Most Alliance ships wouldn't stand a chance against multiple Collector ships, and while I find the idea they coudl've attacked Earth rather silly they could still have been a significant threat.

Except Normandy is frigate, a very small naval vessel designed for patrol and stealth, not combat. Even with it's upgrades it should only have a fraction of the defence and firepower of say a dreadnought.

I don't know - fully upgraded it had the best armour and shields available, and it weapon was Reaper technology. The main reason it beat the Collector ship was the range - at close range a frigate as powerful as the Normandy is going to be pretty powerful. The Collector cruiser's weapon was clearly designed for longer ranged space combat, and with the Normandy's speed, smaller profile and top-end upgrades it didn't stand a chance. Also bear in mind that the Collector cruiser had only just un-docked from the Base, so may not have been at full crew/capacity/power/whatever.

I know I'm nitpicking, but I imagine that in ideal circumstances the Collector ship would've put up a much better fight against the Normandy SR2. I don't think it would've beaten it unless the Collector ship ambushed it (the Normandy did kind of ambush the Base), but the Normandy wouldn't have dominated quite so much.

You're probably right though - an Alliance dreadnaught would've shredded a Collector ship. A ship like that needs to swarm larger ships, and a handful of Collector ships probably could've taken out a dreadnaught pretty rapidly.

Don't forget though that the Collector cruiser took out at least three Turian cruisers with minimal damage, and Turian ships are pretty much on par with Alliance ships. Larger ships one-on-one would devastate the Collector ship, but multiple Collector ships would be a significant threat.

[LinksOcarina]

You also need to keep in mind the attack on the original Normandy was meant to be an assassination attempt; the whole reason for the attack, I feel at least, was to eliminate the biggest threat, and that was Shepard.

[mybudgee]

@ Alex_SM; The collectors WERE shown in ME1, kind of. They are the Protheans. Remember?!?!

[Candidate 88766]

mybudgee wrote...

@ Alex_SM; The collectors WERE shown in ME1, kind of. They are the Protheans. Remember?!?!

Imagine the impact the revelation about the Collectors would've had if we'd known about both the Protheans and the Collectors from ME1. Even a brief mention in the codex of the Collectors would've increased the impact of it. It was still a great twist, but foreshadowing of the Collectors could've made it even better.

Likewise, I think TIM should've been foreshadowed. A brief mention of him in one of the Cerberus side-missions in ME1 would've made meeting him more interesting. Take the Shadow Broker for example - we've known about him since ME1, so finally seeing him and fighting him had much more of an impact than if he'd been introduced in ME2.

[Sgt Stryker]

onelifecrisis wrote...
*shakes head*

Good grief.
I suppose I should have known.
Well, that's the last straw for me. I'm not buying, and there's now one less "whiner" on BSN.

Does that mean we can talk about you behind your back now?

[someone else]

1. Collector swarms in sufficient numbers could easily immobilize vast civilian human populations - a relatively small invasion fleet would be required for collection and clean up of hardened resistance.

2. The Collector ship was at least cruiser class, and even if equipped with greater firepower, lacked the speed and maneuverability of the Normandy, which combined with the thannix was more than enough to tip the scales

[Darth Death]

Alex_SM wrote...

Although I like ME2 story, I think it clearly shows ME trilogy plot was never written as a whole.

To make the progression smooth the Collectors should have been shown in the first game, even if it was just for a few minutes.

Yeah, I understand what you mean. I felt that ME2 story should have been more focus on how to prepare for the galactic war instead of the random collector threat. ME3 starts with shep not knowing anything useful to defeat the reapers, meaning shep is at a huge disadvantage. 

Let's also not forget the magnitude of the reaper's forces. Is it even realistic (pertaining only to the story) for shep to beat the reapers during his/her lifetime? Humans don't live long, so how can shep pull this off considering the circumstances? 

March 6 can't come soon enough. 

Modifié par Darth Death, 07 décembre 2011 - 07:42 .

[Phaedon]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Though, one could just as easy say that Episode 5 did nothing for the story.

Not that I think so. Just saying.

Episode V didn't advance the story massively, but it was pretty good. I for one, would argue that I preferred it to Episode IV.

Oh, and if you don't believe that the ME trilogy wasn't written as a whole, what about Star Wars? One of Episode VI's major goals is for the Rebels to redo what they did in Episode IV, ain't it?

[tonnactus]

Candidate 88766 wrote...


I also don't understand the 'Mac is a moron' post. The fact that the Collectors had multiple ships (verified in-game, I might add) and would've had a Reaper eventually means that they would've been a threat to all of humanity.

And where they were in the entire game? Would have made the threat somehow bigger,right?

And why only one cruiser was there to protect the base?
The reapers are rational acting machines,so they wouldnt underestimate someone who already destroyed one of their own,someone might think.
If something is important, you protect it with more then one ship.

[Sgt Stryker]

"And why only one cruiser was there to protect the base?"

I dunno. Why did the Empire only protect the Death Star 2 with a few dozen star destroyers, when the Imperial fleet easily numbers in the thousands?

[Subferro]

Protecting? I thought the ship was just there dropping off your abducted crew. The dialogue about the lack of alarms made it pretty clear that they never anticipated needing much of a defense force.

[Someone With Mass]

Phaedon wrote...

Oh, and if you don't believe that the ME trilogy wasn't written as a whole, what about Star Wars? One of Episode VI's major goals is for the Rebels to redo what they did in Episode IV, ain't it?

Darth Vader wasn't supposed to be Luke's father at first either.

That's something they made up in the last minute.

[Candidate 88766]

tonnactus wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...


I also don't understand the 'Mac is a moron' post. The fact that the Collectors had multiple ships (verified in-game, I might add) and would've had a Reaper eventually means that they would've been a threat to all of humanity.

And where they were in the entire game? Would have made the threat somehow bigger,right?

And why only one cruiser was there to protect the base?
The reapers are rational acting machines,so they wouldnt underestimate someone who already destroyed one of their own,someone might think.
If something is important, you protect it with more then one ship.

No idea where they were, but it doesn't mean they weren't around.

And given that the Base, which no-one knows about, is hidden in the galatic core, guarded by Occuli (which we know are Reaper-level technology because we see them in ME3's Earth demo, and are powerful enough to shoot straight through regular frigate-level ship armour with one shot), and actually requires a Reaper-IFF to navigate to anyway (presumably the Reapers were unaware of the Derelict Reaper else they'd have taken steps to destroy it), its not unreasonable to assume that the Reapers thought it was guarded well enough.

It took the most advanced ship in the galaxy, complete with bleeding edge technology, an AI partially built with Reaper technology and a Reaper IFF to confront the Base.

Modifié par Candidate 88766, 07 décembre 2011 - 09:19 .

[Sgt Stryker]

Subferro wrote...

Protecting? I thought the ship was just there dropping off your abducted crew. The dialogue about the lack of alarms made it pretty clear that they never anticipated needing much of a defense force.

I believe the Omega 4 Relay was their defense force. The Collectors (and Reapers) are just guilty of not having enough redundancy.

[shepskisaac]

Not to mention, the galactic technology is more advanced then it should've been if the cycle went standard way. Reapers didn't expect that.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 07 décembre 2011 - 09:19 .