580 réponses à ce sujet

[Nizzemancer]

the point was to blow **** up...and delay the reapers.

[onelifecrisis]

111987 wrote...

Mass Effect 2 set up a lot of things for ME3, as most middle chapters do. The genophage cure, the Heretic Geth, the Quarian situation, Liara becoming the Shadow Broker, Arrival, etc...

That's two optional side-quests and two DLCs. I don't think any of those can really count as "the point".

111987 wrote...

And of course, stopping the Collectors and destroying the Human Reaper was very important. The Collectors, had they survived, could have had a large impact on the war (via plagues, seeker swarms, etc...).

Umm, yeah, their 1 cruiser (defeated by a lone Alliance frigate) and seeker swarms (countered by a team comprised of 1 Salarian) would really have had a huge impact on the galactic war. /sarcasm

squee365 wrote...

Also, let us not forget ME2 introduced us to the Illusive Man.

Yeah... I mean, what?

Sgt Stryker wrote...

While it was an optional sidequest, let's also not forget that the heretic geth were on the verge of releasing a virus that would convert the true geth (the overwhelming majority) to their side, and therefore to the side of the Reapers.

As you said, that's an optional side-quest. Plus, from what I hear, it seems to have made no difference in ME3.

D3MON-SOVER3IGN wrote...

Basically

~ Setup alliances for when the reapers actually come

I don't remember setting up any alliances at all. Did I miss something?

[CrazyRah]

The point with ME2 was to let Shepard play Dr. Phil.

Okey will be serious. ME2 kind of did start some very important and interesting plots. The genophage, the Geth/Quarian conflict and such. It involved Cerberus and TIM and that was pretty awesome

[Candidate 88766]

ME2 just explored the ME universe. It may not have advanced the plot hugely, but it advanced our understanding of the ME universe massively. The Reapers' motives, the Genophage, the Quarian-Geth war, Geth 'society', Cerberus, the Terminus systems - all of these things were either unkown or brief codex entries in ME1. Now they are plot points that will tie into the series' conclusion. 

ME1 explored the 'good' factions of the galaxy. We learnt a lot about the Council and the Turians, Salarians and Asari, but most other species were left in the wayside. ME2 exlored the darker side of the galaxy. Cerberus is vastly expanded, and we're introduced to Omega. The Krogan and the Geth are expanded on massively.

To re-use my previous analogy, if you imagine the ME series as a game of chess - ME1 has you bringing out the board and getting out some of the pieces. ME2 has you setting up the pieces. ME3 is where you finally get to play.

onelifecrisis wrote...

111987 wrote...

And of course, stopping the Collectors and destroying the Human Reaper was very important. The Collectors, had they survived, could have had a large impact on the war (via plagues, seeker swarms, etc...).

Umm, yeah, their 1 cruiser (defeated by a lone Alliance frigate) and seeker swarms (countered by a team comprised of 1 Salarian) would really have had a huge impact on the galactic war. /sarcasm

Just gonna call you up on this.

One of the devs tweeted like a day or two ago that the Collectors had a lot more cruisers than the one we saw.

And that one Salarian happened to be one of the leading experts in biology in the galaxy. And even he could only counter small groups of them.


Also, your thing about the loyalty missions being optional - if you don't do any, you fail the game, so you have to do at least some, so there is a contradiction here. Any Shepard you import will have done at least some of the loyalty missions.

Modifié par Candidate 88766, 04 décembre 2011 - 12:56 .

[onelifecrisis]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

111987 wrote...

And of course, stopping the Collectors and destroying the Human Reaper was very important. The Collectors, had they survived, could have had a large impact on the war (via plagues, seeker swarms, etc...).

Umm, yeah, their 1 cruiser (defeated by a lone Alliance frigate) and seeker swarms (countered by a team comprised of 1 Salarian) would really have had a huge impact on the galactic war. /sarcasm

Just gonna call you up on this.

One of the devs tweeted like a day or two ago that the Collectors had a lot more cruisers than the one we saw.

I'm kinda sick of the devs trying to fix their broken story with tweets.
There's 1 cruiser in the game. The game even goes out of it's way to make this clear, with Joker/EDI telling Shepard that the Collector vessel is the collector vessel. If the Collectors had more then why did they only send 1 of them to intercept the Normandy at the end? I call BS on the dev tweet.

Candidate 88766 wrote...

And that one Salarian happened to be one of the leading experts in biology in the galaxy. And even he could only counter small groups of them.

Okay, fine, but the Collectors have just 1 base right? Or did a dev tweet that they had multiple bases as well? That was a humourless joke, although I am geniunely curious to know if you'd accept such a dev tweet as canon. But I digress. Even if that whole base was full of those bugs, it'd only be enough to take on a small city. With a whole galaxy to reap, and the reapers themselves in the fray, I'm really not seeing the Collectors as making much of a difference one way or the other.

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Also, your thing about the loyalty missions being optional - if you don't do any, you fail the game, so you have to do at least some, so there is a contradiction here. Any Shepard you import will have done at least some of the loyalty missions.

But not necessarily the ones that supposedly matter, which I believe negates your counterpoint entirely.

[111987]

onelifecrisis wrote...

111987 wrote...

Mass Effect 2 set up a lot of things for ME3, as most middle chapters do. The genophage cure, the Heretic Geth, the Quarian situation, Liara becoming the Shadow Broker, Arrival, etc...

That's two optional side-quests and two DLCs. I don't think any of those can really count as "the point".

Like most middle chapters in a trilogy, those things help set up the final chapter. And even not doing those sidequests still matters, so regardless, those things are important.

onelifecrisis wrote...

111987 wrote...

And of course, stopping the Collectors and destroying the Human Reaper was very important. The Collectors, had they survived, could have had a large impact on the war (via plagues, seeker swarms, etc...).

Umm, yeah, their 1 cruiser (defeated by a lone Alliance frigate) and seeker swarms (countered by a team comprised of 1 Salarian) would really have had a huge impact on the galactic war. /sarcasm

That frigate was destroyed by possibly the most advanced warship in the galaxy; also, they may have had more at the base.

Seeker Swarms still can't be defended against in large numbers, and if you think everyone in the galaxy will have access to that tech, you're probably a little crazy.

They could also release things like the Omega plague on people. Unless every planet/settlement has a genius Salarian like Mordin present, major damage could be done.

Obviously they wouldn't be on the frontlines obliterating everything in sight; that's what the Reapers are for. But their capability for sabotage is significant.

[onelifecrisis]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

ME2 just explored the ME universe. It may not have advanced the plot hugely, but it advanced our understanding of the ME universe massively.

This I can get behind. ME2 did flesh out the universe. It was more like a backstory than a middle chapter of a trilogy. It was The Silmarillion more than it was The Empire Strikes Back.

Modifié par onelifecrisis, 04 décembre 2011 - 01:11 .

[Complistic]

It was filler.

[MICHELLE7]

SnakeStrike8 wrote...

What was the point of ME2?

To make money, of course. What else would the point be?

Exactly.

[Inquisitor Recon]

The point was TIM b**** slapping you and telling you to sit down and enjoy the ride.

Modifié par ReconTeam, 04 décembre 2011 - 01:24 .

[Andorfiend]

AlexXIV wrote...

turian-rebellion wrote...

yh, i guess it isn't pointless, i just feel like we've been told to build this massive team, which was basically what was the main objective was in mass effect 2, yet no squadmates from mass effect 2 made it into 3? why make us build the team then!

Well to find and destroy the collector base. I don't think anyone ever says in the game that the team is meant to be built for the Reaper invasion. Actually nobody (maybe aside from optimist Shepard) expect that they ever come back from there. All of them too.

You know... I just realized. TIMs whole reason for bringing back Shepard was that he was an icon to whom all the races of the galaxy would rally when the time came to fight the Reapers.

Then he got him branded a terrorist for co-operating with Cerberus, banished to the Terminus systems for the same reason, and sends him off to die with a bunch of criminals. (Which is actually a possible outcome of the game.)

Thereby risking having wasted his entire investment, because in all likelyhood Shepard will not be around for the actual Reaper invasion, but his name will have been tarnished thereby reducing humanities chance to rally allies for the final fight.

So once AGAIN TIM chooses the more short-sighted and destructive goal as how he wants to spend his resources. Only this time it works out because we can reload after dieing.

... I don't know what the plot is in ME 3, and I don't want to read the leak, but I had dammed well better be able to kill TIM.

[Yezdigerd]

CrazyRah wrote...
 ME2 kind of did start some very important and interesting plots. The genophage, the Geth/Quarian conflict and such.

No it didn't. Both things are presented and explained in ME1.

[TheWerdna]

The problem is Mass Effect 2 is that it is the middle game of a trilogy. The middle book, movie, game, what have you in a trilogy often tends to not really have much of a point. In fact, me and a friend noticed a similarity between ME2 and Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers in terms of their relevence to the overall plot.

In ME2 you defeat the Collectors, powerful minions of the Reapers. While they were a major threat to humanity, they are no the main threat or their defeat is goal of the main story

In the Two Towers Saruman (and his army) is defeated, a minion of Sauron. While he was a major thread to Rohan , he is not the main threat or his defeat the goal of the main story.

I found that connection kinda amusing

[goofyomnivore]

Mass Effect 2 left quite a bit to be desired plot wise. It was a fun game, but most of the time I was wondering, why am I doing this?

[Kaiser Shepard]

TheWerdna wrote...

The problem is Mass Effect 2 is that it is the middle game of a trilogy. The middle book, movie, game, what have you in a trilogy often tends to not really have much of a point. In fact, me and a friend noticed a similarity between ME2 and Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers in terms of their relevence to the overall plot.

In ME2 you defeat the Collectors, powerful minions of the Reapers. While they were a major threat to humanity, they are no the main threat or their defeat is goal of the main story

In the Two Towers Saruman (and his army) is defeated, a minion of Sauron. While he was a major thread to Rohan , he is not the main threat or his defeat the goal of the main story.

I found that connection kinda amusing

Except that Saruman already was an established character, and doesn't immediately have his story end after he's removed from power. The Collectors were just an asspull that was never so much as hinted at in the previous game, who were also completely done away with at the point the plot did no longer require them. Complete and utter filler.

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 04 décembre 2011 - 02:02 .

[Yezdigerd]

Luc0s wrote...

Think about this:
- Would you give a flying f*ck about saving the Quarians is you never played ME2?

Why would ME2 make you care more about the Quarians?

- Would you ever have considered that coöperating with the Geth might actually be a possibility if you never met Legion?

The geth worship the reapers as gods in ME1, Saren explains to you that Sovereign care nothing for this and uses them as disposable tools,  it makes perfect sense to cooperate.

- Would you ever guess that Cerberus might become a big enemy without ME2? They weren't a big deal in ME1.

There really are no reason to believe Cerberus would become a big enemy after playing ME2 either. Their goals are the "advancement of humanity" which should clash with being reapergoo. Cerberus does the same thing in both games conducting strange experiments in remote locations. Members are counted in the hundreds, in a galaxy with trillions of sentient beings.

Modifié par Yezdigerd, 04 décembre 2011 - 02:07 .

[Ticktank]

TheWerdna wrote...

The problem is Mass Effect 2 is that it is the middle game of a trilogy. The middle book, movie, game, what have you in a trilogy often tends to not really have much of a point. In fact, me and a friend noticed a similarity between ME2 and Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers in terms of their relevence to the overall plot.

In ME2 you defeat the Collectors, powerful minions of the Reapers. While they were a major threat to humanity, they are no the main threat or their defeat is goal of the main story

In the Two Towers Saruman (and his army) is defeated, a minion of Sauron. While he was a major thread to Rohan , he is not the main threat or his defeat the goal of the main story.

I found that connection kinda amusing

Except that for ME's case, Frodo only discovers how to defeat the Reapers in Return of the King. He still walks to the mountain, exchanges gay dialogue with Sam and gets a finger bitten off by renegade Garrus, but the ring is never mentioned, shown or hinted during the first 2 movies.

Modifié par Ticktank, 04 décembre 2011 - 02:12 .

[111987]

Yezdigerd wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

Think about this:
- Would you give a flying f*ck about saving the Quarians is you never played ME2?

Why would ME2 make you care more about the Quarians?

I don't know if 'care' is the right word, but it definitely expands upon their race. And it brings up the dilemna facing the Quarians; go to war with Geth, settle a new planet, or somehow make peace with them? That will likely be a major plot point in ME3 when it comes to securing the alliances of the Quarians and Geth

Yezdigerd wrote...

The geth worship the reapers as gods in ME1, Saren explains to you that Sovereign care nothing for this and uses them as disposable tools,  it makes perfect sense to cooperate.

There's no way you expected cooperation with the Geth, or that there was a schism between the Orthodox and Heretic Geth. ME2 revealed that schism, and allowed players to handle it three ways; rewrite the Heretics, Destroy the Heretics, or rewrite the Orthodox Geth (either by selling Legion, or choosing not to do its Loyalty mission).

Yezdigerd wrote...

There really are no reason to believe Cerberus would become a big enemy after playing ME2 either. Their goals are the "advancement of humanity" which should clash with being reapergoo. Cerberus does the same thing in both games conducting strange experiments in remote locations. Members are counted in the hundreds, in a galaxy with trillions of sentient beings.

I agree here. After playing ME2 you wouldn't expect Cerberus to be an enemy working with the Reapers. However, you would expect them to play a significant role somehow.

[Someone With Mass]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...
Except that Saruman already was an established character, and doesn't immediately have his story end after he's removed from power. The Collectors were just an asspull that was never so much as hinted at in the previous game, who were also completely done away with at the point the plot did no longer require them. Complete and utter filler.

So we can say that everything new that's established in future games is an asspull now, eh?

Well, that is pretty good description of TIM, I'll give you that. No buildup whatsoever. No reason to be brought into the picture beyond being a mustache twirling douchebag with no consistsent motivations beyond the awfully generalized claim that he "defends humanity" even though he's showing no care for the average human being whatsoever and proceeds to claim that every error and failure he ever produces are "necessary costs".

And suddenly they had everything to build a very advanced and expensive ship, recruit a crew and start several other cells with more projects, even though there was never any indication in the previous game that Cerberus was even near that level of assets and incomes. Not to mention that the universe suddenly starts rotating around them for no good reason.

Now, that is an asspull if I ever saw one.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 04 décembre 2011 - 02:24 .

[CerberusWarrior]

TIM gets sh*t done but its clear Bioware needs a 3rd reaper puppet since they have no idea on how to lay out a story

[Kusy]

CerberusWarrior wrote...

TIM gets sh*t done but its clear Bioware needs a 3rd reaper puppet since they have no idea on how to lay out a story

Fascinating teory. Do elaborate.

[Someone With Mass]

CerberusWarrior wrote...

TIM gets sh*t done but its clear Bioware needs a 3rd reaper puppet since they have no idea on how to lay out a story

They don't know how to write their own story. Okay...

How anyone couldn't see the evil theme Cerberus had is beyond me.

The guy has his own evil lair, for God's sake. With plenty of dark areas, a giant holographic display and he's almost never getting up from that chair, probably because he has his own babysitter servant.

[onelifecrisis]

Calinstel wrote...

Own servant? Mini-Tim?

LOL

[Someone With Mass]

Calinstel wrote...

Own servant? Mini-Tim?

Heh.

Wouldn't surprise me.