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[Yezdigerd]

111987 wrote...
I don't know if 'care' is the right word, but it definitely expands upon their race. And it brings up the dilemna facing the Quarians; go to war with Geth, settle a new planet, or somehow make peace with them? That will likely be a major plot point in ME3 when it comes to securing the alliances of the Quarians and Geth

Nothing which is really news for someone who talked with Tali in ME1, except possibly how a peace with the Geth could be possible.

There's no way you expected cooperation with the Geth, or that there was a schism between the Orthodox and Heretic Geth.

No, but it's an obvious plotpoint that the Geth are played for fools and that you can expect the game to give you the option to expose the reapers at some point, which would lead to cooperation with the Geth against the common enemy.

I agree here. After playing ME2 you wouldn't expect Cerberus to be an enemy working with the Reapers. However, you would expect them to play a significant role somehow.

You could expect as much from ME1, they are involved in multiple sidemissions. Of course with TIM you have named villian so in that respect they become more significant.

Really I'm not saying nothing happens in ME2, but most is expanding on things you have in ME1. ME2 should really have been about getting the tools and alliances to fight the reapers. Instead nothing happens except you collect a bunch of misfits and blow up some stuff that gives you no reason to believe will make any difference in the war to come.

[111987]

Yezdigerd wrote...

Really I'm not saying nothing happens in ME2, but most is expanding on things you have in ME1. ME2 should really have been about getting the tools and alliances to fight the reapers. Instead nothing happens except you collect a bunch of misfits and blow up some stuff that gives you no reason to believe will make any difference in the war to come.

You aren't necesarrily getting alliances and tools, but ME2 sets up how you'll get those things in ME3. ME2 sets up how the Krogan, Geth, and Quarian alliances will be gained. ME1 sets up how the Council races and Rachni will be set up.

So even though you aren't officially securing alliances or whatever, the foundations of those alliances is what is being set up in both games.

[Sgt Stryker]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...
Except that Saruman already was an established character, and doesn't immediately have his story end after he's removed from power. The Collectors were just an asspull that was never so much as hinted at in the previous game, who were also completely done away with at the point the plot did no longer require them. Complete and utter filler.

So we can say that everything new that's established in future games is an asspull now, eh?

Herp derp, the T-1000 was an asspull in T2: Judgment Day.

[111987]

Calinstel wrote...

Yezdigerd wrote...

Really I'm not saying nothing happens in ME2, but most is expanding on things you have in ME1. ME2 should really have been about getting the tools and alliances to fight the reapers. Instead nothing happens except you collect a bunch of misfits and blow up some stuff that gives you no reason to believe will make any difference in the war to come.

That's how I feel ME2 should have gone.
Instead of just introducing the geth duality, actually have a major conflict dealing with it.  At the end, possible peace negotiations started with the quarians and geth, or, at least have Shepards involvement actual push the quarians/geth to war.  The resolution would then be a major plot point in ME3
Instead of Mordin stopping Maelin and just dumping the data either on his desk or a bit bucket, he could have actually started work on a real cure for the krogans or ensuring that no cure would be possible.  Resolution in ME3 with either the krogan helping Shepard or just ignoring calls for help.
In my mind, the quarian/geth conflict is not something that can easily be put into just a small part of a game.  No matter how people feel about the war and the two races, securing at least one if not both species support is manditory to me.  Hell, ME2 could have been 80% about that conflict.
It's clear ME3 must either deal with this conflict or Tali and Legion's addition to the game pointless.

Going off your idea, you'd be losing a lot of missions in ME3. If all the alliances are set in stone going in to ME3, the whole game would be Shepard fighting the Reapers + Cerberus. And I'm sure as hell most people here would be infuriated in ME3 was just a straight up war game, like Halo, Gears, or CoD.

[TheWerdna]

Ticktank wrote...

TheWerdna wrote...

The problem is Mass Effect 2 is that it is the middle game of a trilogy. The middle book, movie, game, what have you in a trilogy often tends to not really have much of a point. In fact, me and a friend noticed a similarity between ME2 and Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers in terms of their relevence to the overall plot.

In ME2 you defeat the Collectors, powerful minions of the Reapers. While they were a major threat to humanity, they are no the main threat or their defeat is goal of the main story

In the Two Towers Saruman (and his army) is defeated, a minion of Sauron. While he was a major thread to Rohan , he is not the main threat or his defeat the goal of the main story.

I found that connection kinda amusing

Except that for ME's case, Frodo only discovers how to defeat the Reapers in Return of the King. He still walks to the mountain, exchanges gay dialogue with Sam and gets a finger bitten off by renegade Garrus, but the ring is never mentioned, shown or hinted during the first 2 movies.

Okay, that made me laugh. All I can say is ... touche

Now, I never disputed the fact that the collectors were a asspull, which I agree that they were, All I was pointing out was the simularities strictly in terms of what was accomplsished in terms of the goals for the repsective stories.

Modifié par TheWerdna, 04 décembre 2011 - 03:47 .

[Iakus]

onelifecrisis wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

111987 wrote...

And of course, stopping the Collectors and destroying the Human Reaper was very important. The Collectors, had they survived, could have had a large impact on the war (via plagues, seeker swarms, etc...).

Umm, yeah, their 1 cruiser (defeated by a lone Alliance frigate) and seeker swarms (countered by a team comprised of 1 Salarian) would really have had a huge impact on the galactic war. /sarcasm

Just gonna call you up on this.

One of the devs tweeted like a day or two ago that the Collectors had a lot more cruisers than the one we saw.

I'm kinda sick of the devs trying to fix their broken story with tweets.
There's 1 cruiser in the game. The game even goes out of it's way to make this clear, with Joker/EDI telling Shepard that the Collector vessel is the collector vessel. If the Collectors had more then why did they only send 1 of them to intercept the Normandy at the end? I call BS on the dev tweet.

I find those tweets interesting, and they sorta help make the point about why the Collectors were so dangerous.

I just wish that this information was actually in the game.  That the Collectors were more than a few dozen bug people with one cruiser.  That even if it would take  millions of more humans to finish the Reaper, it was feasibile by sticking to the Terminus and without hitting Earth.  And that once that happened, all other humans were expendable.  

Modifié par iakus, 04 décembre 2011 - 06:59 .

[The Spamming Troll]

111987 wrote...

Yezdigerd wrote...

Really I'm not saying nothing happens in ME2, but most is expanding on things you have in ME1. ME2 should really have been about getting the tools and alliances to fight the reapers. Instead nothing happens except you collect a bunch of misfits and blow up some stuff that gives you no reason to believe will make any difference in the war to come.

You aren't necesarrily getting alliances and tools, but ME2 sets up how you'll get those things in ME3. ME2 sets up how the Krogan, Geth, and Quarian alliances will be gained. ME1 sets up how the Council races and Rachni will be set up.

So even though you aren't officially securing alliances or whatever, the foundations of those alliances is what is being set up in both games.

the setups your refering to are laughable. none lasting longer then three lines of dialogue. your saying one red/blue line of dialogue i pick in ME2 is what makes ME2 worth playing when i boot up ME3?

is my uber completionist import game gonig to be a better setup then totally new ME3 shepards? is MP going to be comparable to my effort in completeing all those ME1 and ME2 sidequests?

[111987]

Calinstel wrote...

No, the alliances are not 'set' in anything. Getting the quarians and geth talking in no way ensures any outcome, it just allows for it.

ME3 would then be about the various races pulling together, developing an actual weapon, building it and then deploying it. As is, I'm guessing half the game is going to be just getting to the starting point.

Remember, until ME3, there was really no clear evidence that the Reapers were real to most people so actually getting any species to start working on a weapon would be asking too much as well.

In your example you said that the Krogan would either help Shepard or reject calls for help based off what happened in ME2. That would cut out a mission in ME3 where you could secure that alliance.

I think ME2 set things up perfectly well; how they play out, we'll see.

[cr3ative_name]

Calinstel wrote...

Yezdigerd wrote...

Really I'm not saying nothing happens in ME2, but most is expanding on things you have in ME1. ME2 should really have been about getting the tools and alliances to fight the reapers. Instead nothing happens except you collect a bunch of misfits and blow up some stuff that gives you no reason to believe will make any difference in the war to come.

That's how I feel ME2 should have gone.
Instead of just introducing the geth duality, actually have a major conflict dealing with it.  At the end, possible peace negotiations started with the quarians and geth, or, at least have Shepards involvement actual push the quarians/geth to war.  The resolution would then be a major plot point in ME3
Instead of Mordin stopping Maelin and just dumping the data either on his desk or a bit bucket, he could have actually started work on a real cure for the krogans or ensuring that no cure would be possible.  Resolution in ME3 with either the krogan helping Shepard or just ignoring calls for help.
In my mind, the quarian/geth conflict is not something that can easily be put into just a small part of a game.  No matter how people feel about the war and the two races, securing at least one if not both species support is manditory to me.  Hell, ME2 could have been 80% about that conflict.
It's clear ME3 must either deal with this conflict or Tali and Legion's addition to the game pointless.

The reason why I'm so excited about ME3 is precisely because there will be a climax for all these side stories on top of the main kill-the-Reapers story. Putting all these exciting climaxes into ME2 instead of ME3 would have, imo, made ME3 much less interesting since, as one poster just mentioned, it would make ME3's plot a very linear one, which I think isn't what any of us want in a good RPG.

[111987]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

111987 wrote...

Yezdigerd wrote...

Really I'm not saying nothing happens in ME2, but most is expanding on things you have in ME1. ME2 should really have been about getting the tools and alliances to fight the reapers. Instead nothing happens except you collect a bunch of misfits and blow up some stuff that gives you no reason to believe will make any difference in the war to come.

You aren't necesarrily getting alliances and tools, but ME2 sets up how you'll get those things in ME3. ME2 sets up how the Krogan, Geth, and Quarian alliances will be gained. ME1 sets up how the Council races and Rachni will be set up.

So even though you aren't officially securing alliances or whatever, the foundations of those alliances is what is being set up in both games.

the setups your refering to are laughable. none lasting longer then three lines of dialogue. your saying one red/blue line of dialogue i pick in ME2 is what makes ME2 worth playing when i boot up ME3?

is my uber completionist import game gonig to be a better setup then totally new ME3 shepards? is MP going to be comparable to my effort in completeing all those ME1 and ME2 sidequests?

What are you talking about?

The setups I mentioned will determine either success or failure in ME3. ME2 was worth playing because it was a fun game, and it helped set up ME3. Under your logic, what makes ME1 worth playing more than ME2?

[goofyomnivore]

One of the devs tweeted like a day or two ago that the Collectors had a lot more cruisers than the one we saw.

Why didn't they defend with their other Vessel, or at least send it out to look around after the first Vessel was shot down?

Why are we recruiting squad members to fight a space battle versus a Collector Vessel in the first place let alone more than one? What if we went through the relay and it was just a docking station full of Collector Vessels? Or it if went to a planet? Maybe it went to other relays connected to uncharted systems? The whole premise of recruiting a squad to fight an apparent space battle doesn't make any sense. 

Modifié par strive, 04 décembre 2011 - 04:06 .

[CerberusWarrior]

Oh yeah Gears 3 ended the story really fine with out ending all the sub plots

[Iakus]

strive wrote...

One of the devs tweeted like a day or two ago that the Collectors had a lot more cruisers than the one we saw.

Why are we recruiting squad members to fight a space battle versus a Collector Vessel in the first place let alone more than one? What if we went through the relay and it was just a docking station full of Collector Vessels? Or it if went to a planet? Maybe it went to other relays connected to uncharted systems? The whole premise of recruiting a squad to fight an apparent space battle doesn't make any sense.

Believe me, I've spent over a year posing questions like this.

It doesn't seem to matter.

[CerberusWarrior]

strive wrote...

One of the devs tweeted like a day or two ago that the Collectors had a lot more cruisers than the one we saw.

Why didn't they defend with their other Vessel, or at least send it out to look around after the first Vessel was shot down?

Why are we recruiting squad members to fight a space battle versus a Collector Vessel in the first place let alone more than one? What if we went through the relay and it was just a docking station full of Collector Vessels? Or it if went to a planet? Maybe it went to other relays connected to uncharted systems? The whole premise of recruiting a squad to fight an apparent space battle doesn't make any sense. 

   



that just goes to show that ME 2 was a joke and a huge side quest for the franchise . I dare anyone say Bioware tells great story now since we clearly see they have no idea on how to tell a story over the 3 games

[tetrisblock4x1]

cr3ative_name wrote...

Calinstel wrote...

Yezdigerd wrote...

Really I'm not saying nothing happens in ME2, but most is expanding on things you have in ME1. ME2 should really have been about getting the tools and alliances to fight the reapers. Instead nothing happens except you collect a bunch of misfits and blow up some stuff that gives you no reason to believe will make any difference in the war to come.

That's how I feel ME2 should have gone.
Instead of just introducing the geth duality, actually have a major conflict dealing with it.  At the end, possible peace negotiations started with the quarians and geth, or, at least have Shepards involvement actual push the quarians/geth to war.  The resolution would then be a major plot point in ME3
Instead of Mordin stopping Maelin and just dumping the data either on his desk or a bit bucket, he could have actually started work on a real cure for the krogans or ensuring that no cure would be possible.  Resolution in ME3 with either the krogan helping Shepard or just ignoring calls for help.
In my mind, the quarian/geth conflict is not something that can easily be put into just a small part of a game.  No matter how people feel about the war and the two races, securing at least one if not both species support is manditory to me.  Hell, ME2 could have been 80% about that conflict.
It's clear ME3 must either deal with this conflict or Tali and Legion's addition to the game pointless.

The reason why I'm so excited about ME3 is precisely because there will be a climax for all these side stories on top of the main kill-the-Reapers story. Putting all these exciting climaxes into ME2 instead of ME3 would have, imo, made ME3 much less interesting since, as one poster just mentioned, it would make ME3's plot a very linear one, which I think isn't what any of us want in a good RPG.

So they'd wrap up every ME2 plot in ME2 and come up with some new **** for the alliances formed up in ME3 to do. There are something like 9 or more interested parties, 2 of them are human (alliance vs cerberus), and there are the quarians vs geth vs heretics, the krogan vs salarians, and a few other conflicting parties on a smaller scale. Good writers could come up with a satisfying conclusion to a trilogy with a hell of a lot less going for them than what Bioware have given themselves to work with. Now they're going to cram all of this stuff into part three?

[Sgt Stryker]

@iakus, You're not the only one. It would have been much better if we had a clearer picture of what was behind the O4 relay, earlier on in the game.

@CerberusWarrior. Challenge Accepted. Bioware tells great stories.

[111987]

strive wrote...

Why are we recruiting squad members to fight a space battle versus a Collector Vessel in the first place let alone more than one?

You aren't recruiting squad-mates for a space battle. You prepare for a space battle by upgrading the Normandy.

strive wrote...

What if we went through the relay and it was just a docking station full of Collector Vessels? Or it if went to a planet? Maybe it went to other relays connected to uncharted systems?

If it was just a docking station, than they would have needed to land on the station and plant the bomb to blow it and the Collector Ships up, in which case you still need a team. There's no way it was a planet, because if there was a planet's worth of Collectors, they easily would have abducted all the Terminus systems, and probably Earth, very swiftly. From the rate of their attacks we know they don't have millions of Collectors. And they knew the Omega 4 Relay led to the galactic core, meaning no planet would exist there.

The real problem is that we should have found out what lied beyond the Omega 4 Relay near the beginning of the game. From the location alone, you would know that a small, but powerful strike team would be most effective. Then you could start the recruitment.

[goofyomnivore]

If it was just a docking station, than they would have needed to
land on the station and plant the bomb to blow it and the Collector
Ships up, in which case you still need a team. There's no way it was a
planet, because if there was a planet's worth of Collectors, they easily
would have abducted all the Terminus systems, and probably Earth, very
swiftly. From the rate of their attacks we know they don't have millions
of Collectors. And they knew the Omega 4 Relay led to the galactic
core, meaning no planet would exist there.

If there are multiple Collector Vessels I doubt the Normandy will get a chance to dock on that docking station.

Who said there has to be a planet worth of population to occupy a planet? Nobody knows for sure what is in the core. Before EDI spoke out they just assumed nothing survived there.

Modifié par strive, 04 décembre 2011 - 04:20 .

[CerberusWarrior]

Bioware has no idea how to tell a sci fi story

[111987]

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

cr3ative_name wrote...

Calinstel wrote...

Yezdigerd wrote...

Really I'm not saying nothing happens in ME2, but most is expanding on things you have in ME1. ME2 should really have been about getting the tools and alliances to fight the reapers. Instead nothing happens except you collect a bunch of misfits and blow up some stuff that gives you no reason to believe will make any difference in the war to come.

That's how I feel ME2 should have gone.
Instead of just introducing the geth duality, actually have a major conflict dealing with it.  At the end, possible peace negotiations started with the quarians and geth, or, at least have Shepards involvement actual push the quarians/geth to war.  The resolution would then be a major plot point in ME3
Instead of Mordin stopping Maelin and just dumping the data either on his desk or a bit bucket, he could have actually started work on a real cure for the krogans or ensuring that no cure would be possible.  Resolution in ME3 with either the krogan helping Shepard or just ignoring calls for help.
In my mind, the quarian/geth conflict is not something that can easily be put into just a small part of a game.  No matter how people feel about the war and the two races, securing at least one if not both species support is manditory to me.  Hell, ME2 could have been 80% about that conflict.
It's clear ME3 must either deal with this conflict or Tali and Legion's addition to the game pointless.

The reason why I'm so excited about ME3 is precisely because there will be a climax for all these side stories on top of the main kill-the-Reapers story. Putting all these exciting climaxes into ME2 instead of ME3 would have, imo, made ME3 much less interesting since, as one poster just mentioned, it would make ME3's plot a very linear one, which I think isn't what any of us want in a good RPG.

So they'd wrap up every ME2 plot in ME2 and come up with some new **** for the alliances formed up in ME3 to do. There are something like 9 or more interested parties, 2 of them are human (alliance vs cerberus), and there are the quarians vs geth vs heretics, the krogan vs salarians, and a few other conflicting parties on a smaller scale. Good writers could come up with a satisfying conclusion to a trilogy with a hell of a lot less going for them than what Bioware have given themselves to work with. Now they're going to cram all of this stuff into part three?

Would you rather them have crammed all the alliance building into part two?

If all the alliances were formed, all you'd be doing in ME3 is fighting the Reaper armies. Which would anger a lot of people.

[111987]

strive wrote...

You're not the only one. It would have been much better if we had a clearer picture of what was behind the O4 relay, earlier on in the game.

TIM could of done what the Shadow Broker did used his brain and sent probes through the O4R to get intel. After he had Reaper IFF the probes would of been even more efficient. Instead we just charge in Billy the Kid guns a'blazing blind firing at the hip.

The Shadow Broker only had pieces of his probes return. And he was the only one ever to be successful. Nothing else that ever went through returned. For all we know, TIM did send probes through (he says he is dedicating all resources to finding a way through the Omega 4 Relay) and they just didn't return.