580 réponses à ce sujet

[AlexXIV]

Hm, maybe if ME2 had been the first game and ME the second then people wouldn't argue that ME2 had no point. You learn more about the ME world, which is a valid enough point, because if you are supposed to resolve conflicts you should probably know about them beforehand. Of course you could just tell everyone to be nice to each other without having any historical or political date, but ... well.
 
After ME2 Shepard is well respected by the Quarians and the Geth, so that makes him/her the best hope to resolve this conflict peacefully. Also Shep is more respected with the Krogans, especially clan Urdnot. That is partly due to ME1, but in ME2 you get to help out not only Wrex, but the whole clan. Not to mention Urdnot Grunt who could be Wrex' successor at some point in time. Also Cerberus is getting a face in ME2 because in ME1 it was just a random terrorist group who could easily have been replaced by another name without getting too many people on their toes.

Then take the things of Arrival, aka being charged with massmurder, and the option to proof everyone that you are not a xenophobic monster by helping out several aliens on the way. Take Samara who is a Justicar and can vouch for you, take Liara and last but not least take the team members you can actually keep in ME3.

No point? Sorry but that's just being a hater. You're pissed that ME2 doesn directly go on with epic battles as it ended in ME1? ME2 may be only be the prelude to ME3, but what's wrong with that? Would it be so bad if it there was a prelude to ME1, would people cry that the collectors are only a 'fake' because you discover in the sequel that the reapers are the real threat behind them?

I don't know why, but Bioware obviously thinks the first game of a series (like in the DA franchise) must already be a heroic tale with the ultimate enemy at the end. Which makes it hard to expand on that in the follow up story. But most likely they do it because people are stupid. Meaning customers are. If we got ME2 first, people would probably call it lame and not even buy the sequel. So the answer is probably they do it like this because you are behaving like dumb little kids. Yes, I mean you, who complain most about ME2 not being ME3.

Why I say that? Because saying ME2 has no point and ME3 is the direct successor of ME1 is like saying ME1 has no point and should have been ME3 to begin with. In ME1 we beat the reaper just to learn that the real reaper threat is comming later. What's that good for? Just a delay, just like in ME2.

[CerberusWarrior]

well complaining here on BSN is nothing new I bet all the whining that was done during ME 2 is the reason every Shepard is forced down the paragon's path in 3 . Oh wait what path since ME 2 is about been erased since nothing with in ME 2 effects the core story of ME 3 . Thank God Star Trek and Star Wars does a better telling of story than Bioware ever will when it comes to sci fi

[Ticktank]

The purpose of ME2 is to have sex with Tali.

[Ryzaki]

@iakus: Hell the devs don't even have to do that much. They just need to point out that there's enough humans in colonies to make a human reaper. The collectors don't *need* to go to Earth to get the resources they need (and doing such would be stupid). Once the collectors had made that the Reapers would simply nuke Earth from orbit to make sure no information about them was salvaged.

Voila. ME2 is now relevant.

But nooooooo. *headdesks*

Modifié par Ryzaki, 04 décembre 2011 - 06:47 .

[111987]

CerberusWarrior wrote...

well complaining here on BSN is nothing new I bet all the whining that was done during ME 2 is the reason every Shepard is forced down the paragon's path in 3 . Oh wait what path since ME 2 is about been erased since nothing with in ME 2 effects the core story of ME 3 . Thank God Star Trek and Star Wars does a better telling of story than Bioware ever will when it comes to sci fi

You're starting to lose credibility here.

As great as Star Trek and Star Wars are, they definitely aren't storytelling masterpieces. They also didn't have to account for dozens of decisions affecting the next installment like Mass Effect.

You post in every thread how bad BioWare is, which makes me wonder why you're here...

[Iakus]

Ryzaki wrote...

@iakus: Hell the devs don't even have to do that much. They just need to point out that there's enough humans in colonies to make a human reaper. The collectors don't *need* to go to Earth to get the resources they need (and doing such would be stupid). Once the collectors had made that the Reapers would simply nuke Earth from orbit to make sure no information about them was salvaged.

Voila. ME2 is now relevant.

But nooooooo. *headdesks*

Doesn't help when, upon seeing all those pods in the Collector SHip, your squadmates immediately declare with absolute authority "They're going to target Earth"

[Firesteel]

ME2 suffers from being the middle part of a trilogy. One of the few series where the middle was as beloved in the long run as the original was the original Star Wars trilogy. The Empire Strikes Back is probably my favorite of the six for the characters and their evolution. It also had a very important plot point

Spoiler

Vader is Luke's father

. ME2 has good characters, but the plot is more like a very long side mission from ME1 than an extension of ME1 (IMO). The Other problem ME2 has is it tries to have an ending, when the true middle of a trilogy has no ending, it just leads into the next installment, again look at how good Empire is without any real ending.
Edited for consistency.

EDIT:
ME2 has character development, but it should have had some sort of easily distiguishable plot point, the human reaper was, odd. It was unfinished and wasn't really explained well at all. I keep going back to Empire because its major plot point was more of a conflict development point, something the Collectors did not really seem to do, as we somewhat understand the reapers from ME1, and the human reaper was not explained well enough to develop the conflict much more than it had been in ME1.

DISCLAIMER: THIS IS ALL MY PERSONAL OPINION (sorry, I'm used to the Halo forums' lack of civility)

Modifié par Firesteel7, 04 décembre 2011 - 07:11 .

[Homey C-Dawg]

ME2 was all about character development...I think.

Ticktank wrote...
The purpose of ME2 is to have sex with Tali.

Oh yeah and this.

[111987]

Firesteel7 wrote...

ME2 suffers from being the middle part of a trilogy. One of the few series where the middle was as beloved in the long run as the original was the original Star Wars trilogy. The Empire Strikes Back is probably my favorite of the six for the characters and their evolution. It also had a very important plot point

Spoiler

Vader is Luke's father

. ME2 has good characters, but the plot is more like a very long side mission from ME1 than a completely independent story (IMO). The Other problem ME2 has is it tries to have an ending, when the true middle of a trilogy has no ending, it just leads into the next installment, again look at how good Empire is without any real ending.

I don't think you have to have a spoiler warning for that. 

Anyways, in ME2 we did learn the true nature of the Reapers and gained possible insight into their motives.

And while Empire was great, it didn't set up everything. One of the biggest plot points of RotJ, the Death Star II, came out of nowhere and really guided the vast majority of the film.

[Ryzaki]

iakus wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

@iakus: Hell the devs don't even have to do that much. They just need to point out that there's enough humans in colonies to make a human reaper. The collectors don't *need* to go to Earth to get the resources they need (and doing such would be stupid). Once the collectors had made that the Reapers would simply nuke Earth from orbit to make sure no information about them was salvaged.

Voila. ME2 is now relevant.

But nooooooo. *headdesks*

Doesn't help when, upon seeing all those pods in the Collector SHip, your squadmates immediately declare with absolute authority "They're going to target Earth"

Shep's squaddies are allowed to be morons once in a while. Their word should not be taken as fact for collector plans anymore than Shep's "Oh we know why the science team stopped reporting in." when he saw Legion's ship.

[Iakus]

Ryzaki wrote...

iakus wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

@iakus: Hell the devs don't even have to do that much. They just need to point out that there's enough humans in colonies to make a human reaper. The collectors don't *need* to go to Earth to get the resources they need (and doing such would be stupid). Once the collectors had made that the Reapers would simply nuke Earth from orbit to make sure no information about them was salvaged.

Voila. ME2 is now relevant.

But nooooooo. *headdesks*

Doesn't help when, upon seeing all those pods in the Collector SHip, your squadmates immediately declare with absolute authority "They're going to target Earth"

Shep's squaddies are allowed to be morons once in a while. Their word should not be taken as fact for collector plans anymore than Shep's "Oh we know why the science team stopped reporting in." when he saw Legion's ship.

True enough.  But at no point was their assertion ever contradicted by anything in the game.  So how were we to know they were being morons?

Shep's, at least was proven wrong later on.

[Firesteel]

111987 wrote...

Firesteel7 wrote...

ME2 suffers from being the middle part of a trilogy. One of the few series where the middle was as beloved in the long run as the original was the original Star Wars trilogy. The Empire Strikes Back is probably my favorite of the six for the characters and their evolution. It also had a very important plot point

Spoiler

Vader is Luke's father

. ME2 has good characters, but the plot is more like a very long side mission from ME1 than a completely independent story (IMO). The Other problem ME2 has is it tries to have an ending, when the true middle of a trilogy has no ending, it just leads into the next installment, again look at how good Empire is without any real ending.

I don't think you have to have a spoiler warning for that. 

Anyways, in ME2 we did learn the true nature of the Reapers and gained possible insight into their motives.

And while Empire was great, it didn't set up everything. One of the biggest plot points of RotJ, the Death Star II, came out of nowhere and really guided the vast majority of the film.

Hey, just though I should, encase anyone has not seen the glory of the original Star Wars yet:innocent:
Just pointing out, we don't really get too much exposition in the way of the Reapers' motivations, as it should be, but the construction of the reaper could be more as a way to understand humans and "absorb their power" rather than the actual reaper reproduction cycle. My point may be off, as I do remember some line about why the collecters exist. I haven't played ME2 in a while, been mainly focusing on getting more playthroughs of ME1 for imports.

[111987]

Firesteel7 wrote...

111987 wrote...

Firesteel7 wrote...

ME2 suffers from being the middle part of a trilogy. One of the few series where the middle was as beloved in the long run as the original was the original Star Wars trilogy. The Empire Strikes Back is probably my favorite of the six for the characters and their evolution. It also had a very important plot point

Spoiler

Vader is Luke's father

. ME2 has good characters, but the plot is more like a very long side mission from ME1 than a completely independent story (IMO). The Other problem ME2 has is it tries to have an ending, when the true middle of a trilogy has no ending, it just leads into the next installment, again look at how good Empire is without any real ending.

I don't think you have to have a spoiler warning for that. 

Anyways, in ME2 we did learn the true nature of the Reapers and gained possible insight into their motives.

And while Empire was great, it didn't set up everything. One of the biggest plot points of RotJ, the Death Star II, came out of nowhere and really guided the vast majority of the film.

Hey, just though I should, encase anyone has not seen the glory of the original Star Wars yet:innocent:
Just pointing out, we don't really get too much exposition in the way of the Reapers' motivations, as it should be, but the construction of the reaper could be more as a way to understand humans and "absorb their power" rather than the actual reaper reproduction cycle. My point may be off, as I do remember some line about why the collecters exist. I haven't played ME2 in a while, been mainly focusing on getting more playthroughs of ME1 for imports.

We learn that the Reapers use worthy organic races to reproduce by uploading the minds of billions of inividuals of that worthy species. It then goes into an immortal machine body to preserve that species eternally.

Why they do this is unknown, but the fact that they use organics will likely be significant in ME3.

Also, the Collectors were repurposed Protheans whom EDI speculates were incompatible with becoming a Reaper.

[Iakus]

You only learn about the uploading procedure from a specific conversation option with Legion that you can only get if you let your crew die

Such important revelations should not be so deeply hidden

[Shermos]

It looks like this has already been made, but I will say it again. The point of ME2 is not so much to advance the Reaper invasion plot, but to expand the ME universe. The conflict between the Geth and Quarians becomes more complicated, as do the issues surrounding the Krogan genophage. We get introduced to new races etc.

You can call this merely filler if you like, but I find this a pretty short sighted attitude.

[Candidate 88766]

onelifecrisis wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

111987 wrote...

And of course, stopping the Collectors and destroying the Human Reaper was very important. The Collectors, had they survived, could have had a large impact on the war (via plagues, seeker swarms, etc...).

Umm, yeah, their 1 cruiser (defeated by a lone Alliance frigate) and seeker swarms (countered by a team comprised of 1 Salarian) would really have had a huge impact on the galactic war. /sarcasm

Just gonna call you up on this.

One of the devs tweeted like a day or two ago that the Collectors had a lot more cruisers than the one we saw.

I'm kinda sick of the devs trying to fix their broken story with tweets.
There's 1 cruiser in the game. The game even goes out of it's way to make this clear, with Joker/EDI telling Shepard that the Collector vessel is the collector vessel. If the Collectors had more then why did they only send 1 of them to intercept the Normandy at the end? I call BS on the dev tweet.

Candidate 88766 wrote...

And that one Salarian happened to be one of the leading experts in biology in the galaxy. And even he could only counter small groups of them.

Okay, fine, but the Collectors have just 1 base right? Or did a dev tweet that they had multiple bases as well? That was a humourless joke, although I am geniunely curious to know if you'd accept such a dev tweet as canon. But I digress. Even if that whole base was full of those bugs, it'd only be enough to take on a small city. With a whole galaxy to reap, and the reapers themselves in the fray, I'm really not seeing the Collectors as making much of a difference one way or the other.

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Also, your thing about the loyalty missions being optional - if you don't do any, you fail the game, so you have to do at least some, so there is a contradiction here. Any Shepard you import will have done at least some of the loyalty missions.

But not necessarily the ones that supposedly matter, which I believe negates your counterpoint entirely.

1. EDI very specifically mentions that she is matching the Collector ship's signature with other 'known Collector vessels'. The game itself says there is more than one.

2. Firstly, the dev tweet didn't make it canon - the game itself did. And also, I'm willing to accept something that the writer of the story directly says as canon. You can't get much more canon than that. It should've been mentioned in the game, but if the lead writer of the story says something then as far as I'm concerned its canon.

One Collector ship had enough swarms to take out a colony, so you think that all the Collector ship swarms and the swarms on the Base would only be enough for one city? And the Collectors were only there to harvest until the Reapers arrived - they're not meant to be used for head-ons attacks.

3. Your point is that they're all optional, which is wrong. You also seem to be saying that if you don't do the loyalty missions then they won't matter. Well, yeah - if you're not going to play the game then it won't matter. My ME2 has a much larger role in the story because, you know, I actually played it all. If you're complaining that ME2's role isn't that big then maybe you should play mroe of it to make it's role bigger. Just because you have to work for it doesn't mean it doesn't have a part to play.

Modifié par Candidate 88766, 04 décembre 2011 - 10:44 .

[lucidfox]

To be frank, I never saw the Collector plot as being central to ME2.

ME2 is about fleshing out the world, showing the sides of it that were only mentioned in passing in ME1, during the frantic race against the clock - and planting the seeds for ME3. It's the calm between two storms. ME2 also, more than ME1, shows us the lives of the ordinary, unimportant denizens of the galaxy.

[Dexi]

For those who question ME2's role...

Imagine, if you can, playing ME3 without having played ME2 before, just ME1.

So you do an ME1 run and then go to ME3. You'd be clueless to what's happening in the game...

Whoaaa, what's with these many reapers? Whooaah, how can they mutate things and do those husks... Whoaaah, Hackett? How did Garrus end up being so cool? Why is Liara Shadow Broker?
How did the Reapers get here without the Citadel? What do you mean genophage cure, I destroyed it on Virmire!
Cerberus, why so many of you? Who is TIM, my father?
A reaper AI on my ship? What? And why is the Normandy so biiig and cool?

And so on...

[The Elder King]

Dexi wrote...

For those who question ME2's role...

Imagine, if you can, playing ME3 without having played ME2 before, just ME1.

So you do an ME1 run and then go to ME3. You'd be clueless to what's happening in the game...

Whoaaa, what's with these many reapers? Whooaah, how can they mutate things and do those husks... Whoaaah, Hackett? How did Garrus end up being so cool? Why is Liara Shadow Broker?
How did the Reapers get here without the Citadel? What do you mean genophage cure, I destroyed it on Virmire!
Cerberus, why so many of you? Who is TIM, my father?
A reaper AI on my ship? What? And why is the Normandy so biiig and cool?

And so on...

Meh. He was cool only on Omega. Being relegated to be Shep's sidekick isn't cool. As a fan of Garrus I hope he'll be more than this in ME3.

[Chuvvy]

AlexXIV wrote...

Hm, maybe if ME2 had been the first game and ME the second then people wouldn't argue that ME2 had no point.

That would've worked.

[Troika0]

Dexi wrote...

For those who question ME2's role...

Imagine, if you can, playing ME3 without having played ME2 before, just ME1.

So you do an ME1 run and then go to ME3. You'd be clueless to what's happening in the game...

Whoaaa, what's with these many reapers? Whooaah, how can they mutate things and do those husks... Whoaaah, Hackett? How did Garrus end up being so cool? Why is Liara Shadow Broker?
How did the Reapers get here without the Citadel? What do you mean genophage cure, I destroyed it on Virmire!
Cerberus, why so many of you? Who is TIM, my father?
A reaper AI on my ship? What? And why is the Normandy so biiig and cool?

And so on...

David Silverman: So really -- like I mentioned -- the first two games are kind of teasing up what’s going to happen with this galactic war. So in Mass Effect 1, you’re proving out the existence of The Reapers but no one really believes you. Mass Effect 2, you’re finding out what their plan really is. Mass Effect 3, this is the war. So you’re Shephard, you’ve been telling them “hey, The Reapers are coming” and no one’s been listening; now they’re here and really it’s a great entry point. We feel that it’s the best entry point into the franchise with Mass Effect 3. Given the fact that it’s the beginning of the war. 

Modifié par Troika0, 04 décembre 2011 - 01:22 .