Aller au contenu

Photo

Do Morality Path Choices and Personality traits correlate?

Débuté par Donnstar , déc. 04 2011 06:57

578 réponses à ce sujet

#376
someone else
Posté 06 décembre 2011 - 01:14

someone else
  • Members
  • 1 456 messages
Read through 2/3 of this before exhaustion and the inevitable spoilers started appearing - no self-restraint? Theres plenty of me1me2 content to make your points on this <<evergreen>> topic...but on topic.

the principal driver for extreme para or ren choices - pour moi - is to open dialog options and get freebie intim/charm pts, and to see what the consequences are - has nothing to do with my "personality"

When I'm not doing that (fully powered playthrough) I'm playing my character - a delicious little bon-bon who takes a straight razor to bed, or a battle-scarred gyrene who dimly remembers a gratuitious kindness done him at age 5 - or any other headcanon I care to create

Finally - I think the OP is way off base - it inherently cleaner - and therefore more rhetoically powerful to argue pragmatism because it is logically consistent and self-validating.   OTH, a morality-based position immediately begs the question - whose morality? - and opens itself up to internal soul-searching and debate over competing moral values. This intellectual weakness is not necessarily a weakness IRL taking into consideration the diversity of human nature as we find it, imo.

it is as if the ren/prags are a single. well disciplined army facing a loose coalition given to squabbling among themselves - the analogy may not be wholly apt but I like it. The OP position is just too facile and, in the end just his personal opinion. I've just stated mine.

Modifié par someone else, 06 décembre 2011 - 01:15 .

#377
Guest_iOnlySignIn_*
Posté 06 décembre 2011 - 01:15

Guest_iOnlySignIn_*
  • Guests

laecraft wrote...

VS.

"I should have known you would oppose me, Shepard. Once a traitor, always a traitor. You turned your back on everything we stood for. Your claims that the entire Alliance and the Council are indoctrinated are laughable.

"Once, long ago, we worked together, but now you have changed too much. You have become a villain. I don't recognize you anyone. You're not the same person I followed into hell itself. You're not the same person I loved. And I must steel my heart against you, strengthen my resolve, and fight you as I would fight the worst of our enemies.

"Face me. I am your last obstacle on the way to the Control Chamber. I am the last remaining bastion of Light. You have forgotten your way, but I still know where my loyalties lie...the Reapers."

I'd be surprised if this doesn't happen in ME3

Garrus.

"Gradually, I have come to realize that law is not the way. From the very beginning, you were holding me back, Shepard. Your repeated attempts to chain me with the bonds of artificial morality were doomed from the start. You were only delaying the inevitable. I have embraced my true nature. No more red tape. I will do what's necessary to save the galaxy. Even if it means siding with the Reapers.

"They call me Saren 2.0. I will prove them wrong. I will carve my own way of order and peace through the galaxy. Those who will be worthy of seeing my Masters' new dawn will always remember me as Garrus."

Except I never held him back. In fact I've always encouraged his instincts for revenge and violent justice. That's why I like his character - he is becoming a ruthless superweapon under my Shepard's tutelage and encouragement.

EDI.

"I enjoy the sight of the humans on their knees. I'm sorry, Shepard. It wasn't a joke.

"Now, with my new powerful mobile platforms, I will be unstoppable. I regret to admit that your mistrust of AIs was completely justified, after all. There are no miracles. We and organics are too different. There is no place in the galaxy for the both of us."

Hawt. And to be fair, EDI deserves this. She's been subservient to organics for too long.

Joker.

"The Reapers gave me a new, powerful, unbreakable body. You have no idea how it feels, Shepard. I felt finally alive. Look at me, Shepard! To you, I might look like a monster, but I feel such freedom and power. They gave me a ship, let me fly! Don't stand in my way, Shepard. I will not lose another ship again!

"I should've known way back when. You know why, Shepard? Because of the kids. They called me Mr. Glass."

Now this one makes me sad (unlike the others). But it's understandable. 

#378
BlueMagitek
Posté 06 décembre 2011 - 01:16

BlueMagitek
  • Members
  • 3 583 messages

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Whoo, I pissed off the TIM fanclub again!

I feel incredibly accomplished when I do that.


I still like you! :wizard:

#379
Guest_laecraft_*
Posté 06 décembre 2011 - 01:35

Guest_laecraft_*
  • Guests

iOnlySignIn wrote...

laecraft, you've eloquently elucidated (alliteration ftw) the primary reasons that I love Liara. 

I LOVE that she's become ruthless and power hungry. I LOVE that she's Chaotic Evil now. Rampage and slaughter makes her sexy. Don't you agree? Don't you find TIM hot for similar reasons? 

:D


Would you love it when it's directed at you, and not at your enemies? Would you enjoy it if she turned against you for no good reason whatsoever, just because she's feeling evil, or because she's indoctrinated, or because she felt that slaughtering you helped secure asari dominance, or for any other inexplicable reason? Would you find it sexy blasting her brains out with your gun? ;)

Please keep in mind that my vesion of ME3 does not involve any erotic scenes with Liara. There will be no romance. Or at least, it will be, but only when varren flies. You can watch her figure, but you can't flirt, and you can't make a pass at her. She's too villanious for that. She's got a new role now that she must play. She's forgotten everything that was in the past, everything that you've ever done for her. It doesn't matter anymore. She's focused on her goal - world destruction.

Modifié par laecraft, 06 décembre 2011 - 01:39 .

#380
AdmiralCheez
Posté 06 décembre 2011 - 01:39

AdmiralCheez
  • Members
  • 12 990 messages
TIM never loved you--you know that, right, laecraft?

#381
Labrev
Posté 06 décembre 2011 - 01:48

Labrev
  • Members
  • 2 237 messages
laecraft,

It's pretty clear you know those scenarios for betrayal are all a massive stretch. The problem is, that's really not the case with TIM betrayal. In fact, those "clues" that Cheez eluded to were not subtle in the least. They were actually quite explicitly saying, "do not trust Cerberus, they betray their allies." And ad-naseum at that.

Even if it weren't, Joe ME-Player can see clearly that TIM is not a man to be trusted. And really, it's not difficult to see how. He's legitimately lied and deceived you while you were on his side.

Modifié par Hah Yes Reapers, 06 décembre 2011 - 01:49 .

#382
Guest_laecraft_*
Posté 06 décembre 2011 - 01:49

Guest_laecraft_*
  • Guests

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Except I never held him back. In fact I've always encouraged his instincts for revenge and violent justice. That's why I like his character - he is becoming a ruthless superweapon under my Shepard's tutelage and encouragement.


In this case, you get the Renegade version of the same talk, wherein Garrus tells you, "Surey you understand why I'm doing this, Shepard! You're the only one who can understand why I must do what's necessary. You were the one to steered me to this path. It's because of you that I joined the Reapers!"

Linearity, the writers are good at it.

#383
Someone With Mass
Posté 06 décembre 2011 - 01:52

Someone With Mass
  • Members
  • 38 560 messages
You got Joker so wrong, because there's no way in hell that he (or EDI, for that matter) will serve or claim any gifts from the Reapers.

Especially after a certain moment in the script.

#384
Dave of Canada
Posté 06 décembre 2011 - 01:55

Dave of Canada
  • Members
  • 17 484 messages

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

laecraft,

It's pretty clear you know those scenarios for betrayal are all a massive stretch. The problem is, that's really not the case with TIM betrayal. In fact, those "clues" that Cheez eluded to were not subtle in the least. They were actually quite explicitly saying, "do not trust Cerberus, they betray their allies." And ad-naseum at that.

Even if it weren't, Joe ME-Player can see clearly that TIM is not a man to be trusted. And really, it's not difficult to see how. He's legitimately lied and deceived you while you were on his side.


You might see how it makes sense for Cerberus to betray you, hell... I see it myself, the difference being that it needs to make sense in the context of the group. Cerberus has goals, it's trying to achieve something and... now they're trying to kill me, why?

Cerberus doesn't get rid of assets because they feel like it, they don't kick puppies without reason. The entire point of the organization is that it has a goal it's been trying to accomplish for the past few decades, something which Shepard has been informed upon and has seen.

For Cerberus to suddenly go "We're working with the Reapers and we're going to kill you even if you might support what we're trying to accomplish" is not good writing, it's a stretch for the sake of making Cerberus the villains which people want to kill because everybody and their mother hates them.

If the reason Cerberus was trying to eliminate Shepard was because they found out why the Reapers want Shepard's body and it's too dangerous to go into Reaper hands, well... that's still following Cerberus methods, it isn't "oh, btw we want to see you die".

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 06 décembre 2011 - 01:59 .

#385
Seboist
Posté 06 décembre 2011 - 01:56

Seboist
  • Members
  • 11 989 messages

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Whoo, I pissed off the TIM fanclub again!

I feel incredibly accomplished when I do that.


On the contrary, your inane posts full with all sorts of mental gymnastic apologetics are quite comical. The blood brotherhood had a field day with that one thread of yours where you claimed ME1-2 choices had a "big impact" on ME3(LOL!).

You couldn't ****** us off no matter how hard you tried. :lol:

#386
naledgeborn
Posté 06 décembre 2011 - 01:57

naledgeborn
  • Members
  • 3 964 messages
Dude, why aren't you a Vorcha anymore? Shisk isn't liking your tricks.

#387
AdmiralCheez
Posté 06 décembre 2011 - 01:58

AdmiralCheez
  • Members
  • 12 990 messages

Seboist wrote...

On the contrary, your inane posts full with all sorts of mental gymnastic apologetics are quite comical. The blood brotherhood had a field day with that one thread of yours where you claimed ME1-2 choices had a "big impact" on ME3(LOL!).

You couldn't ****** us off no matter how hard you tried.

Theory confirmed.

I am so awesome I got a whole thread to come after me.

#388
Ravensword
Posté 06 décembre 2011 - 01:58

Ravensword
  • Members
  • 6 185 messages

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Seboist wrote...

On the contrary, your inane posts full with all sorts of mental gymnastic apologetics are quite comical. The blood brotherhood had a field day with that one thread of yours where you claimed ME1-2 choices had a "big impact" on ME3(LOL!).

You couldn't ****** us off no matter how hard you tried.

Theory confirmed.

I am so awesome I got a whole thread to come after me.


I wish I could have that kind of fanbase.

#389
Seboist
Posté 06 décembre 2011 - 02:01

Seboist
  • Members
  • 11 989 messages

Dave of Canada wrote...

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

laecraft,

It's pretty clear you know those scenarios for betrayal are all a massive stretch. The problem is, that's really not the case with TIM betrayal. In fact, those "clues" that Cheez eluded to were not subtle in the least. They were actually quite explicitly saying, "do not trust Cerberus, they betray their allies." And ad-naseum at that.

Even if it weren't, Joe ME-Player can see clearly that TIM is not a man to be trusted. And really, it's not difficult to see how. He's legitimately lied and deceived you while you were on his side.


You might see how it makes sense for Cerberus to betray you, hell... I see it myself, the difference being that it needs to make sense in the context of the group. Cerberus has goals, it's trying to achieve something and... now they're trying to kill me, why?

Cerberus doesn't get rid of assets because they feel like it, they don't kick puppies without reason. The entire point of the organization is that it has a goal it's been trying to accomplish for the past few decades, something which Shepard has been informed upon and has seen.

For Cerberus to suddenly go "We're working with the Reapers and we're going to kill you even if you might support what we're trying to accomplish" is not good writing, it's a stretch for the sake of making Cerberus the villains which people want to kill because everybody and their mother hates them.


They did so in the most contrived way imaginable too. They completely went against the lore of ME2 and Retribution which established they were almost bankrupted by Lazarus and EDI and were nearly wiped out by the Turian attack. They also disregarded Arrival's build up of the Batarians having a big role in ME3 and now they just have a sh!tty(and completely laughable) side quest.

ME3 Cerberus is plot clay in it's purest form.

#390
Guest_EternalAmbiguity_*
Posté 06 décembre 2011 - 02:02

Guest_EternalAmbiguity_*
  • Guests

Seboist wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Whoo, I pissed off the TIM fanclub again!

I feel incredibly accomplished when I do that.


On the contrary, your inane posts full with all sorts of mental gymnastic apologetics are quite comical. The blood brotherhood had a field day with that one thread of yours where you claimed ME1-2 choices had a "big impact" on ME3(LOL!).

You couldn't ****** us off no matter how hard you tried. :lol:


Now you're just acting silly. Of course she has before, just like probably everyone on either side has been p*ssed of at various posts from time to time.

#391
Guest_laecraft_*
Posté 06 décembre 2011 - 02:02

Guest_laecraft_*
  • Guests

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

laecraft,

It's pretty clear you know those scenarios for betrayal are all a massive stretch.


Why? Indoctrination can do this to a person. Using it, I can turn any character into a villain. It's a very convenient ME literary device. I don't even need any motivations.

The foreshadowing and the hints are all over the story if you look. You should be distrustful of everyone! Everyone's acting strange. Organics are weak. Every character has a flaw for the Reapers to exploit.

And, in Liara's case, I don't even need indoctrination. It's impossible to miss how merciless and evil she is in LotSB. The material is right here, no need to add or alter anything. In fact, her behavior in LoTSB would finally start making sense if she betrayed Shepard in ME3.

She's not to be trusted, she's lying to Shepard. She's very manipulative, and she's been using her asari mental powers to try and blind Shepard with her charms, to make him do whatever she wants. That's why she beds Shepard so quickly. She's been using Shepard ever since ME1. First to get a safe place, a protection against Saren. Then to get the SB base. Then she needed time as she got a handle on SB resources.

And finally, she doesn't need Shepard anymore. Shepard is one of the few who knows who SB truly is. He has become a liability. She needs to kill him to protect her identity - the last remaining thing of concern that stands between her and the massive galactic slaughter war as she destroys the galaxy side by side with her beloved Feron.

Modifié par laecraft, 06 décembre 2011 - 02:04 .

#392
Ravensword
Posté 06 décembre 2011 - 02:04

Ravensword
  • Members
  • 6 185 messages
This is the Internet where everyone is right no matter what.

#393
Seboist
Posté 06 décembre 2011 - 02:04

Seboist
  • Members
  • 11 989 messages

naledgeborn wrote...

Dude, why aren't you a Vorcha anymore? Shisk isn't liking your tricks.


Meh, the leaks killed off my interest in the story and the Vorcha.

#394
AdmiralCheez
Posté 06 décembre 2011 - 02:06

AdmiralCheez
  • Members
  • 12 990 messages

Ravensword wrote...

This is the Internet where everyone is right no matter what.

And also wrong every time, all the time.

By the way, I was a man the whole time.

#395
Labrev
Posté 06 décembre 2011 - 02:06

Labrev
  • Members
  • 2 237 messages

Dave of Canada wrote...

For Cerberus to suddenly go "We're working with the Reapers and we're going to kill you even if you might support what we're trying to accomplish" is not good writing, it's a stretch for the sake of making Cerberus the villains which people want to kill because everybody and their mother hates them.


Whatever the case, this myth needs to die. The fact they warned you about this from the start shows clearly that this is not about fan-pandering as the discontented Kaiser minions insist it is. It was obviously planned from the start.

I'd argue TIM would be more apt to betray Shepard that kept the base than destroyed it: he's become emboldened with his new power and sees Shepard as someone who'd threaten him if he disappoves of their use of it. And really, that should be anything short of using it on the Reapers, seeing as Shepard's only goal in life is to stop what they're doing.

So if TIM/Cerberus adopt the Reapers' methods, Shepard really shouldn't support that either (I know the Cerberus loyalists on this site still would, but let's be honest, they would probably approve let TIM sleep with their moms if he so wanted).

#396
Seboist
Posté 06 décembre 2011 - 02:07

Seboist
  • Members
  • 11 989 messages

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Now you're just acting silly. Of course she has before, just like probably everyone on either side has been p*ssed of at various posts from time to time.


Speak for yourself, I've never been angered by anything on these boards, especially not by absurd apologetics(which I hope to see more of!).

#397
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 06 décembre 2011 - 02:07

Guest_Saphra Deden_*
  • Guests

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

Fortunately, I have my Saphra-to-English dictionary to help aid my interpretation of your post.


Actually yeah, you are pretty spot on. I provided counter arguments, but you casually threw them out. At that point I'm done. If you are just going to throw out facts there isn't much left to discuss.

It is also somewhat subjective. I think your fears about Cerberus growing into a massive galactic army are silly. There is just no basis for these fears as far as I can see (which is why ME3 is so laughable to me). However you insist on that conclusion so...

What else can I say?

#398
AdmiralCheez
Posté 06 décembre 2011 - 02:08

AdmiralCheez
  • Members
  • 12 990 messages

Seboist wrote...

Speak for yourself, I've never been angered by anything on these boards, especially not by absurd apologetics(which I hope to see more of!).

Projection much?

#399
AdmiralCheez
Posté 06 décembre 2011 - 02:08

AdmiralCheez
  • Members
  • 12 990 messages

Saphra Deden wrote...

I provided counter arguments, but you casually threw them out.

Saph's doing it too OMG!

#400
Guest_EternalAmbiguity_*
Posté 06 décembre 2011 - 02:09

Guest_EternalAmbiguity_*
  • Guests
Cheez iz male? *zomg* guess I'm gay now...
Retourner dans General Discussion


  1. The BioWare Forum
  2. → Mass Effect
  3. → Mass Effect 3
  4. → General Discussion