578 réponses à ce sujet

[DeathDragon185]

Maybe they have something better to do than stay on BSN?. maybe they have a life?.

[Donnstar]

DeathDragon185 wrote...

Maybe they have something better to do than stay on BSN?. maybe they have a life?.

Is this that paragon logic i've heard so much about?

[DeathDragon185]

Donnstar wrote...

DeathDragon185 wrote...

Maybe they have something better to do than stay on BSN?. maybe they have a life?.

Is this that paragon logic i've heard so much about?

more like common sense. why, do people have to be on their PC all day to argue with people over the internet?. 

[111987]

Donnstar wrote...

111987 wrote...

I think Dean is the most intelligent of the 'Pro-Cerberus' posters. In debates with Dean I've always been more impressed and challenged than with Saphra, for example. The others seem to just whine a lot about everything, and I feel I have debated them satisfactorily on various topics.

Not sure who Dean is. Link to a topic with him debating, if you don't mind.

I'm not saying these people are Holy Debate warriors.


 They argue their points better than the majority and they are very entertaining to watch.

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/323/index/8686931/1

Most of the people you've mentioned are in there, including Dean. It's over 50 pages though, just so you know. I'm also in there Dean and I get into a very long debate about legitimacy...which was pretty unrelated to the topic, but oh well.

[Dave of Canada]

Not sure if serious

EDIT: AND SADDENED THAT I AM NOT RENOWN.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 04 décembre 2011 - 07:47 .

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Mass Effect provides gamers with drama, romance, simplistic morality, herd mentality and people who must obviously be aliens to prepare them for the REAL RPG: BioWare Social Network.

Where you can truly roleplay as a Renegade or Paragon in a world full of drama, romance, simplistic morality, herd mentality, and people who must obviously be aliens.



See, thanks to Mass Effect, I know how to be a Paragon or Renegade on the forums too. I know what my options are!



Though I have to admit this:

DeathDragon185 wrote...

Maybe they have something better to do than stay on BSN?. maybe they have a life?.

Was just as funny.

----

If you want to approach this somewhat seriously, I think you're looking at it selectively.

Modifié par mrcrusty, 04 décembre 2011 - 08:09 .

[Eckswhyzee]

OP:Is there an actual correlation to your main Shepard morality path and your actual personality?

Unlikely. You're likely getting confused by the availability heuristic.

Basically, there are some very memorable renegade/paragon posters with certain traits. You then associate these traits with all P/R posters.

And yes, Cheez is fabulous.

[AdmiralCheez]

Donnstar wrote...

I simply called them renegade members (which they are) the TIM fanclub is secondary. if you can prove those 3 members are not renegade members than you have a good argument.  Untill then, everything else you've said is void.

Fallacy.  "These three renegades are cool" =/= "all renegades are cool."

Also, three members is a goddamn small sample size.  Where'd you learn statistics, the back of a cereal box?

I do not need to divide this community. Its been split in half already. All you have to do is read a topic that contains any of those 3 members and watch them attack each other.

So you have a boner for three people you've never met who type a lot.

Go you.

[Dave of Canada]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Fallacy.  "These three renegades are cool" =/= "all renegades are cool."

This makes me sad.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 04 décembre 2011 - 08:16 .

[Donnstar]

Dave of Canada wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Fallacy.  "These three renegades are cool" =/= "all renegades are cool."

This makes me sad.

You mean her ability to misrepresent my argument again and again?

[onelifecrisis]

Donnstar wrote...

D3MON-SOVER3IGN wrote...

" , Saphra Dedan, Zeel, Kaiser, etc, etc. They tend to be controversial, but I find most of their posts are on point, humourous and generally dismissive of Bioware's claims. " I agree with this.. But to a certain extent... Well with Zeel and Kaiser. I dont knomw Saphra or Dedan.. Not sure what to make of with the other things you said.

I might be mispelling his name, I'll go check. 
All three of them are what BSN might consider a troll. Some of their posts are just meant to provoke but other times when they're being serious they know how to handle theirselves. I've disagreed with them from time to time, but they've always presented good reasoning to back up their position.

Where as, I feel, whenever reading their opponents posts (usually a paragon, go figure) their arguments are shallow and not well-thought out.


Let me repeat, I am not saying intelligence is exclusively Renegade. I'm saying, the few renegades we do have tend to be extraordinary.

Okay, firstly... Zeel?

But apart from that one I see what you're saying, but maybe it's an effect rather than a cause. As you said, paragon is the status quo. Perhaps an "ordinary" renegade who can't do a good job of defending their position is going to get ripped apart by the more intelligent paragons, and just trolled by the less intelligent ones, with the result being that only the smart ones remain on the forum. Just a thought.

[AdmiralCheez]

Dave of Canada wrote...

This makes me sad.

Not everyone's as cool as you, Dave.  Even if they redtext all day, erry day.

Crushing, I know.

[Donnstar]

Eckswhyzee wrote...

OP:Is there an actual correlation to your main Shepard morality path and your actual personality?

Unlikely. You're likely getting confused by the availability heuristic.

Basically, there are some very memorable renegade/paragon posters with certain traits. You then associate these traits with all P/R posters.

And yes, Cheez is fabulous.

I think there's a real discussion to be had here. Bioware's morality path is a reflection of our society. Paragon does indeed tend to be the Straight and narrow path, where as the Renegade is a rule breaker. So I am not surprised to see, that certain playing methods translate in the individual. Not all, again, you guys are too busy arguing something I did not state.

Is it should a drastic conclusion that, the people who prefer to play as rule breakers, like to break the status quo?

And the people who play as Paragon like to reaffirm the status quo?

As well, I can draw further conclusions by just watching how members interact. Maybe because renegades are constantly challenged, they have to adapt and become better debaters.

Not sure why they're so funny. Maybe thats just a personality quirk inherent in anarchists.

[Donnstar]

onelifecrisis wrote...

Donnstar wrote...

D3MON-SOVER3IGN wrote...

" , Saphra Dedan, Zeel, Kaiser, etc, etc. They tend to be controversial, but I find most of their posts are on point, humourous and generally dismissive of Bioware's claims. " I agree with this.. But to a certain extent... Well with Zeel and Kaiser. I dont knomw Saphra or Dedan.. Not sure what to make of with the other things you said.

I might be mispelling his name, I'll go check. 
All three of them are what BSN might consider a troll. Some of their posts are just meant to provoke but other times when they're being serious they know how to handle theirselves. I've disagreed with them from time to time, but they've always presented good reasoning to back up their position.

Where as, I feel, whenever reading their opponents posts (usually a paragon, go figure) their arguments are shallow and not well-thought out.


Let me repeat, I am not saying intelligence is exclusively Renegade. I'm saying, the few renegades we do have tend to be extraordinary.

Okay, firstly... Zeel?

But apart from that one I see what you're saying, but maybe it's an effect rather than a cause. As you said, paragon is the status quo. Perhaps an "ordinary" renegade who can't do a good job of defending their position is going to get ripped apart by the more intelligent paragons, and just trolled by the less intelligent ones, with the result being that only the smart ones remain on the forum. Just a thought.

Why do people keep challenging Zeel's legitmacy on the list?

 I thought it was pretty obvious that he can debate. Why do you think he's able to derail so many topics, so quickly?
If you wish to dismiss him as just a troll. Well then, he's a good troll.

Saphra Dedan also, debates very well. He is no-nonsense type.

Kaiser of course handles himself expertly. 

I don't know how its even an argument that these three can't debate or that they aren't entertaining. Have you seen the average poster on this board?

Modifié par Donnstar, 04 décembre 2011 - 08:33 .

[Laser Beam]

Donnstar wrote...

I've been lurking these forums for awhile and I'm seeing a definite pattern here.

On BSN, renegade members tend to be exceptional. They tend to be "cooler" "more amusing" "more rational" "more realistic" "less of a Bioware fanboy/girl" and just more down to Earth.(if that makes sense in this context)  I don't know if it's just a coincidence or something to think about, but why is that? Is there an actual correlation to your main Shepard morality path and your actual personality?

If that is so. Does it mean Renegades tend to be extraordinary.(good or bad)

Where as Paragons represent the status quo?


Think about it, Saphra Deden, Zeel, Kaiser, etc, etc. They tend to be controversial, but I find most of their posts are on point, humourous and generally dismissive of Bioware's claims. Where as everyone else (Paragon players) tend to just sort of go with the flow. Sometimes bland and uninteresting.

Keep in mind, renegade members get attacked the most and their points are always belittled.

I am not trying to be an elitist here. Just something I thought was worth discussing.

Wow.

Wow. Wow. Wow.

I'm 100% Paragon, and my mom said I'm pretty ****ing cool. Also, I'm controversial. But just so you know....Paragon and Renegade are two huge archtypes, where within, there are many different reasonings. You obviously are not paying attention to the fourms. And it's obvious you can't know what everyone is playing as.

I can't believe I just responded to this. /werewolf form

Modifié par Laser Beam, 04 décembre 2011 - 08:34 .

[Dave of Canada]

Serious discussion: There seems to be two types of Renegade players from what I've seen, where I (and many others) fall into one group which was formerly Paragon but eventually developed to see the world with cybernetic zombie Shepard eyes (or they've always seen it from this point of view) and the other group which consists of people who find Renegade humorous or just enjoy shooting people in the face.

The people you seem to mention are those which fall into the first group of people, those you'll see often arguing their viewpoint against others who have the opposite viewpoint. Though, due to the nature of the morality and the sheer number of paragon players, you'll notice the Renegade player arguing his or her point of view far more than the Paragon who does the same.

Does this mean that the average Renegade player is "cool" or does this mean they stand out amongst the sea of Paragon? I've become rather well known by a few others as being pro-Templar and pro-Renegade (made it my signature when I was being addressed as such ), both controversial opinions on these boards, though this doesn't stop other Paragon or pro-Mage (for DA:O/DA2) players from being well known for their opinions either.

[Donnstar]

Laser Beam wrote...

Wow.

Wow. Wow. Wow.

I'm 100% Paragon, and my mom said I'm pretty ****ing cool. Also, I'm controversial. But just so you know....Paragon and Renegade are two huge archtypes, where within, there are many different reasonings. You obviously are not paying attention to the fourms. And it's obvious you can't know what everyone is playing as.

I can't believe I just responded to this. /werewolf form

Renegades make theirselves known.

Paragons blend into the background. I'm not surprised you are a paragon.

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

As a middleground Renegon (60% Ren - 40% Par) I seek the prosperity and sovereignty of humanity over galaxy (Not villainous though)
I find some Paragon acts idiotic and some Renegade actions jerk like.

Simply, most of renegades are cool (not absolute renegades), on the contrary Paragons remind me of human right activists who can't do any useful job for the whole of humanity (uncool)