578 réponses à ce sujet

[AlexXIV]

Saphra Deden wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Well I'd once again have to ask you for examples. Because I simply don't see which things about Liara changed so much.

Let's see. In ME1 she was an archeologist. She was shy and and socially awkward. Liara had a very logical mind and was able to rationalize killing her own mother. Afterword she wasn't even that shook up over it, she just moved on. She was not aggressive, she was not some ass-kicking biotic commando.

Then starting with Redemption she can't let Shepard go and she's a badass who can take on the Shadow Broker and his minions. This continues into ME2 where she is also taking on Spectres single-handedly and is apparently a suave and gifted information broker which is a stark contrast to the awkward, bookish young woman from the first game. It's the total opposite in fact.

On the topic of her mother again, doesn't that strike you as odd? She can let her own mother go but she can't let Feron or Shepard go? She's downright obessed with them and with the Shadow Broker. So much so that she got into bed with Cerberus. It's out of character.

You know what Liara would have done after Shepard died? She'd have continued hunting the galaxy for clues about the Reapers and that's how she'd honor Shepard's memory. She would not accept a deal from the outlaw Illusive Man to bring her friend back to life.

Bioware rewrote Liara because they wanted her to stay relevant to the series, but didn't want her to die, and they're apparently idiots. They had no idea what to do with her in ME2. Even her voice actor admitted this. Liara was not suited for the Redemption comic. Just about anybody but her would have been a better choice.

Hm I see, good points. Maybe the change wasn't explained much. I think I look at her differently because he is Shep's LI and I blame much of her change on grief. But she never really had much of a connection to her mother for once. Ok she was still her mother, but it's not like she lost someone she had alot of social contact with. Also, she is a powerful biotic and pureblood asari (who tend to be even more powerful than half bloods). I think you may have a point that they changed her to quickly and drastical. I still can't say that it bothers me overly much but you may have a point there.

[Ryzaki]

Saphra Deden wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Well I'd once again have to ask you for examples. Because I simply don't see which things about Liara changed so much.

Let's see. In ME1 she was an archeologist. She was shy and and socially awkward. Liara had a very logical mind and was able to rationalize killing her own mother. Afterword she wasn't even that shook up over it, she just moved on. She was not aggressive, she was not some ass-kicking biotic commando.

Then starting with Redemption she can't let Shepard go and she's a badass who can take on the Shadow Broker and his minions. This continues into ME2 where she is also taking on Spectres single-handedly and is apparently a suave and gifted information broker which is a stark contrast to the awkward, bookish young woman from the first game. It's the total opposite in fact.

On the topic of her mother again, doesn't that strike you as odd? She can let her own mother go but she can't let Feron or Shepard go? She's downright obessed with them and with the Shadow Broker. So much so that she got into bed with Cerberus. It's out of character.

You know what Liara would have done after Shepard died? She'd have continued hunting the galaxy for clues about the Reapers and that's how she'd honor Shepard's memory. She would not accept a deal from the outlaw Illusive Man to bring her friend back to life.

Bioware rewrote Liara because they wanted her to stay relevant to the series, but didn't want her to die, and they're apparently idiots. They had no idea what to do with her in ME2. Even her voice actor admitted this. Liara was not suited for the Redemption comic. Just about anybody but her would have been a better choice.

...I'm stunned I'm saying this but yeah. I agree with all of this. And while Liara *was* extremely skilled in combat (she managed to impress Wrex after all) she was pretty calm and go with the flow.

I can very easily see her hunting Shep's body to make sure it'd destroyed so Shep'll be at peace. Handing it over to Cerberus so they can bring Shep back to life with no oversight? Eh...

Modifié par Ryzaki, 06 décembre 2011 - 08:45 .

[AlexXIV]

Zeelx wrote...

jreezy wrote...

Zeelx wrote...

There was indeed a drastic change in liara's personality. All you have to look at is her current occupation

from Relic researcher to shadow broker is a huge mofo' jump.


I like Liara's new personality. Though I liked the old one as well.

Do you think the change was out of character considering what she went through?

Well.


There's no way they could have liara still play the whole nerdy, naive scientist anymore. That would've gotten on my nerves by the second game. Key word here is naive.

BUT!! The change that she should've gone through didn't need to be that big jump. They could've shown a maturing Liara without completely hodge podging her character. 

Also why would someone's death somehow mulitiate your personalitiy? You go through sorrow, your outlook on some things change but your ENTIRE character? Yeah right! Especially since we are dealing with the asari, aren't these the 900 year btchs that have to deal with their friends death often?

No mass. Bioware did Liara wrong.

They grow very old, but Liara is still young. I figure young Asari are more likely to change than, say, Samara.

[naledgeborn]

Saphra Deden wrote...

As a scientist Liara might have actually been useful in ME2 and ME3. Science is precisely what we need to stop the Reapers. She would have been helpful unravelling the Collector mystery.

And we have a winner!! She'd have been a lot more useful during ME2-ME3 as an anthro-archae-whatever ologist than the Shadow Broker. But BW had to make her "cool and edgy" and now we get threats about coffee cups.

[Zeelx]

AlexXIV wrote...

Firstly you should stop thinking of me insulting you or your pals. I state what I consider facts. I call some troll because they are trolling. It is not an insult, it is a fact. If someone makes a speech like you just did I call them attention ****. Because it is a fact. I don't make up ****. I see you are doing it, and I call you out on it.

There is nothing wrong with attention anyway, if that's what you want. And you're doing a good job at it. If just don't like the word **** or troll then I am sorry. I just use it because it is generally used to describe a certain behaviour. I could say attention seeker or entertainer or whatever else.

Bascially you like that people are talking about you, and with you. Deny it if you want. If it gives you something then it is all fine. I am also posting here to make my points, it's not much different. Though I don't expect anyone to remember my name as long as they remember a point if I make one. I am interested in this community because I honestly think that a better community will ulitmately result in better games. And people like you are as important for it as people as me or others.

I do not have time for this nonsense. What is the point of me replying to you if you will not listen?

I told you. I do not want attention. or atleast the type of attention you describe. 

The only "attention" I want is the kind that allows me to 1. Get my flame on. 2. Engage in debate and at one point, yes 3. To Troll

Any other form of attention I do not give a damn about. the "being talked about" was never my goal. The infamy feels more like a bonus than a reward.

[AlexXIV]

Saphra Deden wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Hm I see, good points. Maybe the change wasn't explained much.

It was explained but it was BS, it was lampshading.

Asari regularly mate with aliens, fall in love with them, but then they outlive them. Liara knows that at most she and Shepard have about a century together, with the latter part of that time Shepard being withered and old. After that Liara has 900 or so years to look forward to without Shepard. With all that in mind do you really think she'd need or want to sell her "soul" to Cerberus just to squeeze a few more decades out of Shepard? It should be relatively easy for her to move on because Shepard's death long before her is a natural part of the asari experience.

AlexxXIV wrote...

I think I look at her differently because he is Shep's LI and I blame much of her change on grief. But she never really had much of a connection to her mother for once. Ok she was still her mother, but it's not like she lost someone she had alot of social contact with.

She knew Shepard for a couple of months. That's not long enough to be in love with him to such an astounding degree. Nor is it even really supported by ME2. Remember, she is just as much obsessed with Feron and the Shadow Broker as she is Shepard.

I'm not a psychologist and I don't know if Bioware ever consult one writing their characters. I would guess most writers don't. Anyway, Shep was probably her first lover. First cut is the deepest, etc. As I responded to Zeelx already, even if she may grow 1000 years old and knows that it will happen eventually anyway it doesn't change the fact that it is hard, especially the first time. I mean if you go into a relationship you cannot be sure it lasts forever. You also know your parents won't live forever. You also know that one of your friends may have an accident, etc. My point, knowing something to happen does not really prepare you that much if it really happens. It's still something that will throw you off balance. What's the deal with Feron I don't know, and I agree with you. I never really understood what that thing between Feron and Liara. Especially since he seemed to have betrayed her before.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 06 décembre 2011 - 08:50 .

[naledgeborn]

Shepard died...so I'M GOING TO MAGICALLY BECOME THE BEST COUNTER/INTELLIGENCE AGENT IN THE GALAXY OVER NIGHT!!!

Sorry Alex, still not seeing your leap of logic here.

[Dexi]

Saphra's taking head on half of the forum again... Seriously, stop giving him attention, just read, objectively, a post of his and you'll understand: it's so biased and humorous it's not even worth considering fighting...

[Seboist]

Dexi wrote...

Saphra's taking head on half of the forum again... Seriously, stop giving him attention, just read, objectively, a post of his and you'll understand: it's so biased and humorous it's not even worth considering fighting...

No.

[Nightwriter]

It's true. I have often been called a boring sheep. That is my burden as a paragade player. It is the burden we all share.

When you sign up to the para school of thought they make you sign a contract with commandments.

Thou shalt not aspire to logic or reason.
Thou shalt not be interesting, cool, fun, badass, or "awesomesauce." Thou shalt win no internetz.
Thou shalt not criticize the game in any way, for thou art now paragon, yea, which means "BioWare worshiper."
Thou art now mentally inferior, and incapable of rational thought. Thou art in denial of this, and shall refute it most ardently.

Modifié par Nightwriter, 06 décembre 2011 - 08:55 .

[Zeelx]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Zeelx wrote...

There's no way they could have liara still play the whole nerdy, naive scientist anymore. That would've gotten on my nerves by the second game. Key word here is naive.

Inexperienced? Yes, but naive? No, I really don't think she was.

As a scientist Liara might have actually been useful in ME2 and ME3. Science is precisely what we need to stop the Reapers. She would have been helpful unravelling the Collector mystery.

I don't mean naive in that sense. As in crude or unsophisticated.


I use naive as a word to describe her lack of knowledge of the Universe. Her area of expertise was only the Protheans. Any other area, her character appeared naive.

ignorant or unwordly is probably a better fit.

[lobi]

Liara was never naive. Distracted maybe but, not naive.
Her area of interest was the Protheans, Once she knew what happened to them she would have started writing her penultimate work.
Possibly first draft was aboard the Normandy as well as her recordings of Vigil, when..
You could guess the reception that paper would have got from the council races if she had tried to release it unsupported.
Then she was approached by TIM. Followed by an obligation to save someone she put in harms way.
Her job was a way needed to raise funds to mount a rescue as well as gain info on the shadow broker.
It's still the same Liara she was just more focused during the rescue mission.

edit: Liaras asides during missions gave me the impression she had travelled a lot and seen a lot of the Universe.

Modifié par lobi, 06 décembre 2011 - 09:04 .

[Zeelx]

Nightwriter wrote...
Thou shalt not criticize the game in any way, for thou art now paragon, yea, which means "BioWare worshiper."

This would be the first commandment in the Paragon Bible.

[AlexXIV]

naledgeborn wrote...

Shepard died...so I'M GOING TO MAGICALLY BECOME THE BEST COUNTER/INTELLIGENCE AGENT IN THE GALAXY OVER NIGHT!!!

Sorry Alex, still not seeing your leap of logic here.

As I said, I am no psychologist. Especially not xenopsychologist. It is not my leap of logic, it is Bioware's leap of logic, and I am not in a position to really disprove it's possibility.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 06 décembre 2011 - 09:04 .

[naledgeborn]

AlexXIV wrote...

As I said, I am no psychologist. Especially not xenopsychologist. It is not my leap of logic, it is Bioware's leap of logic, and I am not in a position to really disprove it's possibility.

Liara's mind set aside one does not develop the skill set of an intelligence operative overnight.

[AlexXIV]

Saphra Deden wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

I mean if you go into a relationship you cannot be sure it lasts forever.

So I guess she's a teenager and not a grown woman.

Not sure if she is a teenager but really young. I would assume around 21 in human years +/- 5 years.

[Nightwriter]

Zeelx wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...
Thou shalt not criticize the game in any way, for thou art now paragon, yea, which means "BioWare worshiper."

This would be the first commandment in the Paragon Bible.

Get it right. Vows of ignorance before vows of mindless loyalty. This is common sense.

But of course I adhere to the loyalty commandment faithfully as well. Has anyone ever known me to criticize the game? No sir. No sirree. I defend it at every turn.

[AlexXIV]

naledgeborn wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

As I said, I am no psychologist. Especially not xenopsychologist. It is not my leap of logic, it is Bioware's leap of logic, and I am not in a position to really disprove it's possibility.

Liara's mind set aside one does not develop the skill set of an intelligence operative overnight.

I don't know. I know that 10 years olds cracked a military code in the USA. I personally wouldn't put it in the realm of impossibiitly. Also she probably worked with computer/internetwebs in her studies before, if only to gather any valuable information from there. I am just grasping at straws here, because I really can't explain it. Which may mean that you're right about it being impossible, but it can also mean that you are not. And since I don't know, it doesn't bother me over much. I just wonder how you guys can be that sure about it that it bothers you so much.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 06 décembre 2011 - 09:12 .