578 réponses à ce sujet

[AdmiralCheez]

Donnstar wrote...

it's funny that you're accusing me of what you're doing.  You are the one who began to play semantics. "Oh this choice is not paragon, blah blah"

Uh, no dude.  I pointed out actual choices IN THE GAME that had the potential to dramatically alter the galactic power structure.  Directly challenging the powers that be definitely isn't aiming to preserve any status quo whatsoever.

The "status quo" is the "existing state of affairs" (have a dictionary), NOT a personal moral guideline.  To be AGAINST the status quo, one only needs to advocate CHANGE.  Both paragon and renegade choices offer opportunities to alter the power balance, and Shepard by default--canonically--is a force of major change on multiple levels.

Shep just doesn't leave things the way (s)he found them.  Ever.

Then you began to move the goalposts "well this isn't exactly paragon so bleh you"

What?

Despite what you believe, I'm just offering you my counterpoint. If you can not counter it then that's that.

I am still trying to figure out what the hell your damn point is.  You are seriously trolling, and trolling hard.  If I weren't so hopped up on green tea and coffee right now, I'd have the wisdom to leave this well enough alone.

But hey, at least I've got enough wits to know what I'm doing, even if what I'm doing is really, really stupid.

I think we need a renegade in here. This whole paragons teaming up and bashing renegades is getting tiring.

Just a sec, let me load Alex's profile.  She's about as renegade as they come.

Oh wait.  That's also me.  WHOA YOU MEAN PEOPLE CAN PLAY BOTH?

I don't know what's wrong with today's culture.  It's like we have this compulsive need to classify everything in binaries, in this-or-that, black-and-white, no-in-betweens-allowed categories.

Look.  I am not bashing renegades--sure I can't stand Saph, and I've brawled with Kaiser more than once--but it's a legitimate way to play the game and is just as fun as bluetexting it.  I am just saying that you are wrong to classify people based on their favored playstyle.

For example, my BFF?  Total cupcake in real life, really quiet, uncomfortable with change.  Her canon playthrough?  At least 80% renegade.  Me?  Loud, obnoxious, incredibly dissatisfied with the current state of affairs, and I'm averaging out at about 75% paragon.

The appeal of roleplaying games is that they give you a chance to try being someone you're not for a while.  Sometimes, people pretend to be a more heroic, more badass version of themselves, while others play the complete opposite of their actual values and personalities.  Either way, it's goddamn fun, and agreeing with a certain decision in a videogame doesn't define who you are.

Did I learn some things about myself playing Mass Effect?  Yes.  I think there's always a little self-discovery to be had when we play pretend.  But for f*ck's sake, the paragon/renegade system is such a self-contradicting clusterf*ck that you'd have to be insane to start picking fights over which one is better.

I mean, seriously, this goes for the whole damn community.  Guys, don't hate somebody because they did something differently in their playthrough than you did in yours.  Debate the in-universe merits of decisions, sure, but Jesus Christ, are you going to be a dick to me because only one of my Sheps has blonde hair?

Modifié par AdmiralCheez, 04 décembre 2011 - 09:14 .

[DiebytheSword]

Donnstar wrote...

DiebytheSword wrote...

While I will say that most of the players that you have identified are intelligent and can debate well when they want to, not all of them choose so.

I know if I engage Dean the Young in a serious conversation he will engage in return. Same runs for some of the other pro-cerberus and pro-renegade guys. Zeel does not always engage in debate, but you can get him to do so from time to time. I feel that generalizations are usually not something I would prefer to engage in, as it serves no purpose when you are dealing with individuals in the end. While they group together and circle the wagons around their cherished causes (who doesn't), they don't necessarily agree at all times. Xilihira (sp?) is an intelligent paragon debater, if you want an example from the other side. 111987 is, in my opinion, another who tends paragon and presents his arguments well. They exist on both sides, and both sides have their blathering idiots. Pragmatic/Realists tend to float renegade, where Idealistic/Optimists tend to go Paragon. Both sides also have their trolls who will resort to name calling before debating honestly about the subject at hand.

I am sure there are many good debaters on the Paragon side. They seem to be dwarfed by the Renegade side is my point.

Your last few sentences I agree with though. Renegades = realist. Paragons = idealist. Why does this translate into better debaters for one side, though?

I don't neccesarily think it does.  To wit, one side is more likely apt to tell the other side that they are doing it wrong.  Paragons are happy doing their thing, and if a Renegade is happy doing their's, it is fine.

Renegades on the other hand, generally seem to hate the idea that the Paragons can have a happy ending+ (deathless care bear ending), or that their choices pay off when all they see are gambles. 

I, play somehwere inbetween, leaning paragon on most choices, but I also lean Templar and actively work against tyranny within the Templar ranks in DA, which puts me in funny middle territory.   

I see gambles on both sides.  I'm usually not apt to tell the ceberus players that they did it wrong.  I tell them I disagree.  This subtle difference in the way things are discussed leaves the minorty side, who feel they've been slighted in both options and reprecussions, to actively persue vocalizing their opinion and why they think the other side is invalid or illogical.  You have no cause to do that, nor want to from the Paragon side. 

Take that for what you will, but I believe that the want to defend your position comes into play when you sport the non-populist view.  The need to defend that view well comes into play when you are in the minority, defending against all comers.

[AlexXIV]

I must say that OP is hurting my feelings as a paragon player. I may not be as funny but honestly, humor is in the eye of the beholder. Or ear of the listener. However I try my best to be funny at times at least and I would rather you appreciate it, if only the effort.

And thanks to Admiral Cheez for making me laugh in this thread and thereby disprove the claims of the OP

[DiebytheSword]

I should add that some of the pro-cerberus players border on idealist. Their ideal being human domination, rather than "care bears in space". Nothing wrong with that, its their game. Not all players who saved the reaper base are renegade or pro-Cerberus either. A good example would be Lotion Sorranar (sp?), who plays mostly Paragon, but makes a few pragmatic distinctions in his game, where he felt the renegade option presented a better chance of survival.

[Shad Croly]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

By the way, I'm 75% paragon and I'm the most goddamn fabulous person to have ever lived.

God. Damn. Fabulous.

Me gusta.

[AlexXIV]

I think renegades don't like the idealistic fairytale character that is sometimes very strong in games. Simply because games are not a honest reflection of real life, they have a message and the message is most of the time supposed to be good natured. As in things as being helpful, understanding, compassionate, etc are supposed to be a good thing. Because we live in a society and society watches out that people behave. So games and developers have to 'play nice'. Games which suggest that crimes or violence are the best thing in the world are probably not suited because some people have trouble understanding that a game is a game and real life is real life and that both are not the same thing.

I am honest I play paragon because I know that in a game I can be idealistic and do everything right. If it was different. As some renegade players want, I would not be paragon. I want to make the right choices. I don't care if they are paragon or renegade. So you can blame me for trying to do the right thing in a world in which paragon decisions are most of the time the right thing.

If games were like the real world I would probably be either balanced between renegade and paragon or more on the renegade side. Because being a pure paragon doesn't work well irl. I don't know what this discussion comparing real life with game decissions is always supposed to prove? Do you think people who play the tough guy in games are the tough guy irl? Do you think people who act tough on a forum are tough irl? Then you are naive. There is no danger at all in voicing your opinion here. Nothing can happen to you. It is nothing that is supposed to be adored or worshipped. I have no problem to write things here that I wouldn't say irl to most people I know, not to mention people I don't know.

So what is this about? Someone think they have a small penis and need to get a huge virtual one? Because this smells like it.

[Belisarius09]

from my experiences 111987 has been a good debator and i don't think he's renegade.

then again i have fewer than 100 posts and have been here less than a year, so what do i know.

[Harmless Citizen]

Trollbait thread is trollbait.

[Laser Beam]

Jedi Sentinel Arian wrote...

We have studied the most important theories about how to deal with hard situations of War and Politics, and how to find the best way to do more good.

And this is not about those jerk kind of renegades who want to shoot people for the laugh of it.

You follow your sacred code of rightism.

I think it's braver (and in the end, less regretable) to do the right thing, then the thing that benifits you the most.

God damn, that was cheesy. But it had to be said.

Modifié par Laser Beam, 04 décembre 2011 - 09:38 .

[AlexXIV]

Belisarius09 wrote...

from my experiences 111987 has been a good debator and i don't think he's renegade.

then again i have fewer than 100 posts and have been here less than a year, so what do i know.

What's more important, you don't have a game registered. Not trying to be elitist, but without registering a game you're as anonymous as you can get, most people in fear of being banned by mods. If I see troll threads like this, with an OP who does not have a game registered, my first thought is always troll. Simply because he wouldn't even risk to have a game registered when he gets a ban. It's nothing but cowardice really. I for one have only one account and all my games registerd on it. Because I am not afraid to be kicked out for my honest opinion.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 04 décembre 2011 - 09:40 .

[DiebytheSword]

Laser Beam wrote...

Jedi Sentinel Arian wrote...

We have studied the most important theories about how to deal with hard situations of War and Politics, and how to find the best way to do more good.

And this is not about those jerk kind of renegades who want to shoot people for the laugh of it.

You follow your sacred code of rightism.

I think it's braver (and in the end, less regretable) to do the right thing, then the thing that benifits you the most.

God damn, that was cheesy. But it had to be said.

There is nothing wrong with being an honorable warrior.  +1 to you good sir.

[Eclipse_9990]

I make pararenegade choices;what does that make me?

[Belisarius09]

AlexXIV wrote...

Belisarius09 wrote...

from my experiences 111987 has been a good debator and i don't think he's renegade.

then again i have fewer than 100 posts and have been here less than a year, so what do i know.

What's more important, you don't have a game registered. Not trying to be elitist, but without registering a game you're as anonymous as you can get, most people in fear of being banned by mods. If I see troll threads like this, with an OP who does not have a game registered, my first thought is always troll. Simply because he wouldn't even risk to have a game registered when he gets a ban. It's nothing but cowardice really. I for one have only one account and all my games registerd on it. Because I am not afraid to be kicked out for my honest opinion.

oh how does one register, and what does that do for someone?

[Biotic Sage]

Paragon, because I'm too idealistic and choke on the hard decisions beotch.

Haha honestly though it is dumb to correlate someone's personality with morality path choices because it all depends on how they role play. Would I have kept the Collector base in real life? Probably. But in the context of me playing a heroic sci-fi story from the comfort of my own home where I have the luxury of having idealistic values of perserving the "soul" of our species and our humanity over the machine-like mindset of "victory by any means," then yes I choose to blow that moth**fu**er up.

[AdmiralCheez]

Biotic Sage wrote...

Paragon, because I'm too idealistic and choke on the hard decisions beotch.

Haha honestly though it is dumb to correlate someone's personality with morality path choices because it all depends on how they role play. Would I have kept the Collector base in real life? Probably. But in the context of me playing a heroic sci-fi story from the comfort of my own home where I have the luxury of having idealistic values of perserving the "soul" of our species and our humanity over the machine-like mindset of "victory by any means," then yes I choose to blow that moth**fu**er up.

Unrelated, but wanting to save the team IS THE SAME DAMN THING.

Can't do it in real life, can do in videogame.

[ObserverStatus]

Donnstar wrote...
On BSN, renegade members tend to be exceptional. They tend to be "cooler" "more amusing" "more rational" "more realistic" "less of a Bioware fanboy/girl" and just more down to Earth.

Dude, I've never heard a better description of myself, thanks! I totally am all those things.

[xentar]

Donnstar wrote...
Do Morality Path Choices and Personality traits correlate?

No, they are arbitrary.

[DeathDragon185]

OP just what are you trying to accomplish with this thread?. your making yourself look like a fool and a troll. you are making the renegades of this forum look bad as well.

however I agree on this:
Paragon: Idealistic
Renegade: Realistic