578 réponses à ce sujet

[Yezdigerd]

My impression is that those who argue the renegade path mainly do it for the attention you get for the controversial stance. It's a common approach among socially isolated youngsters.

I also find the notion to that renegade somehow is realistic bewildering. Renegade Shepard slaps reporters on live television, gives the council the middlefinger, give alliance info to the shadowbroker without compensation, murders Turian politicians in front of C-sec, yet are never suspended, stripped of spectre rank, dishonorable discharged, serving term in prison, which even a hint of realism would require.

plus s/he mostly goes around and is a dick to everyone for no reason. You know the efficient way to get people's assistance.

[DeathDragon185]

oh thats just Bioware's view on renegades.

[Biotic Sage]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...

Paragon, because I'm too idealistic and choke on the hard decisions beotch.

Haha honestly though it is dumb to correlate someone's personality with morality path choices because it all depends on how they role play. Would I have kept the Collector base in real life? Probably. But in the context of me playing a heroic sci-fi story from the comfort of my own home where I have the luxury of having idealistic values of perserving the "soul" of our species and our humanity over the machine-like mindset of "victory by any means," then yes I choose to blow that moth**fu**er up.

Unrelated, but wanting to save the team IS THE SAME DAMN THING.

Can't do it in real life, can do in videogame.

It is completely different.  In real life I would want the squadmates to live because I like them, and I would want them to live because they are real people who have real lives ahead of them.  In a game or a story, I want the squadmates to live because I like them, but I only actually want them to live if their surviving suits the story.  The story is not real, so it's whatever creates a better story.  It's not like worrying about real people at all to me.

[BatmanPWNS]

Ey, I play paragon but I don't act nice to anyone here.

[Ieldra]

Here's my take on it:

The short version: Renegade decisions need good arguments to justify them more than the Paragon decisions.

The Paragon majority has conventional morality on its side as well as the weight of numbers. They don't need arguments except in cases where their decision is obviously stupid. There are, of course, justifications of some Paragon decisions based on pragmatism and expediency and there are some cases where the conventionally moral and the pragmatic are not in conflict, but those justifications are strictly accidental and after-the fact. Mostly these decisions are made because they feel good.

On the other hand, Renegades who make Renegade decisions the same way - for instance, because "this is cool" - come across as sociopaths. They may or may not make their decisions based on emotions, but in either case their decisions need justifications more because they're going against conventional morality and the majority of Paragons. Basically, a Renegade decision that cannot be justified in terms of pragmatism and expediency cannot be justified at all and comes across as stupid and unnecessarily cruel. That's why Renegades need good arguments while Paragons don't.

There's also this: where pragmatism and morality do not conflict there is no question about it - in those cases the Paragon decision is the better one unless you want to be a sociopath or a racist. Renegade decisions are by definition at least controversial.

[xxSgt_Reed_24xx]

If only renegade was like that in the game... and ya know, less douche-y. Renegade should have always been the more practical and efficient (and ruthless when needed) side... yet, it's just made out to be a psychopathic douchebag view and a thing to play "for the lulz". =/

But ... er.. I tend to find people on both sides that are practical and have good arguments. Though, I tend to side with the "renegade" users.

Modifié par xxSgt_Reed_24xx, 04 décembre 2011 - 03:22 .

[111987]

To OP; something I've noticed a lot in my life is that people tend to like and see the positive qualities in people whom share similar viewpoints. I am guessing you are a Renegade player, who often agrees with the three posters you've mentioned? You probably do see those more positive traitsin them because you are primed to do so because of your shared beliefs.

I've seen many Paragon/Paragade players whom debate intelligently and possess both satire and wit. I'm not sure about the 'cool' thing, because that definition is too variable. I will point out that we are all on a videogame forum though...

[Harmless Citizen]

Doesn't take an exceptional person at all to go with the tide. Which is why Paragons are the majority. One would think that this forum would treat rare Renegades with love and care

That's right. We must preserve this incredibly valuable and fragile species from the heel of the oppressive tyrant that is the paragon.

[Yezdigerd]

wiggles89 wrote...

Yezdigerd wrote...

My impression is that those who argue the renegade path mainly do it for the attention you get for the controversial stance. It's a common approach among socially isolated youngsters.

Uh huh. It has nothing to do with the fact that we think Renegade choices--generally speaking--have better
justification going for them than Paragon choices. Nah, perish the thought.

Ok I play, what is the justification for flipping the bird to the supreme galactic council? How does assaulting khalissa on television invite trust in your judgement as a spectre? How is giving the shadow broker classified alliance military data for nothing sensible? How come murdering Thalid the Turian politician in front of the police have no consequences?
You even get renegade points for turkey shooting colonists on Feros. I could go on, a great deal of renegade action is unrealistic idiocy for the lulz.

[Someone With Mass]

Saphra Deden wrote...

There are several Paragon posters who present their arguments eloquently and maturely, but that doesn't mean they present good arguments.

It's funny, because you do the same all the time with the Renegade side.

[Malik84]

People spend WAY too much time on this forum. Really. That's probably why they think they should  create a new thread every 15 min even if it's pointless ...This thread sucks:whistle:

[Kaiser Shepard]

It's official: we're cool.

[Yezdigerd]

[quote]Saphra Deden wrote...

[quote]Yezdigerd wrote...

How is giving the shadow broker classified alliance military data for nothing sensible?[/quote]

The Shadow Broker is a neutral party. Everyone plays his game, they have to. Earlier in your quest the Shadow Broker was a valuable ally, helping you to stop Saren and providing you with Wrex. Giving 'him' the Cerberus data to earn a favor later is a sound diplomatic move.

[quote] The SB:s help was entirely happenstance his minions was after Fist and Shepard was a mean to get to him. Wrex joins of his own volition. Handing over the information regarding a alliance black ops unit to a alien power on his own authority for vague promises of assistance in the future seems stupid at best and could technically not be anything but treason, I guess Joker didn't listen in, since Shep wasn't court martialed.[/quote]


[quote]Yezdigerd wrote...

How come murdering Thalid the Turian politician in front of the police have no consequences?[/quote]

[quote]Well, if you are a Spectre it is technically legal. If you aren't then Cerberus has your back anyway. Plus you already know Bailey is corrupt. He takes bribes, he helped you despite your not being part of law enforcement.[/quote]

Yeah a council spectre working for human supremist terror organization kills a Turian politician campaigning against human dominance, THE HUMANLED COUNCIL SENT ITS DEATHSQUAD TO SILENCE THE OPPOSITION With any realism the council would disavow him, apologize for a sentimental appointment and vow to make Shepard answer for his crimes. Especially the human alliance would have to be very clear that Shepard's actions are as despicable as unacceptable.
I never understood a spectre as someone who can kill people willy-nilly(because that is stupid), just that you answer to the council and not local law for their actions. Bailey have plenty of C-sec even Turians with him, and I would assume thallids death would recieve an extensive investigation.

And there is no reason to kill Thallid, except for throwing away cool stuff like "hostages only works if your enemies care". it's lulz and as usual renegades are plot shielded from their actions.


[quote]
Oh wow, not even attempting to be unbiased here are you? The knockout gas grenades are improvised weapons. Improvised by people who don't necessarily have any formal training creating military weapons at that. In addition the colony is overrun with strange aliens that you've never seen before (the creepers). There several sensible reasons to kill the colonists. It is hardly a "turkey shoot".
[/quote]

That Shepard doesn't want to risk his people are understandable, but there is no time limit and the creepers are slow, there really are no reason not to try out the grenades and once you do you realize they are better then the guns since they kill the creepers outright. So the only reason to shoot colonists are lulz.

Modifié par Yezdigerd, 04 décembre 2011 - 05:40 .

[Nimrodell]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

It's official: we're cool.

Or just desperately seeking for constant attention (not that I think that about majority of 'renegade' posters, there are smart people as well as simply rude people among them). I was hoping that BSN renowned 'renegades' would actually go against stereotypes imposed on either renegade or paragon type of posters/players in this topic, thus proving their coolness. Perhaps it is nice to be in part of yard where current cool kids are hanging around nevermind the fact that stereotypes are most often just pure BS. Just you wait 'till Xilizra spots you lol... fireworks will start .

As for morality path choices and personality traits - sometimes they correlate, sometimes they not and sometimes there is a mixture, meaning that posters are living breathing people who very often calculate their actions and what they'll say. There are too many variables concerning age, in what type of family poster grew up, where poster lives, his/hers experiences with people and even experiences of being in war or peace... It's actually very offensive to all those smart and witty renegade or paragon posters to be regarded so narrow minded, to put them on simple two piles... people are way more complex than that.

[Labrev]

The best poster-boy for BSN renegades is CerberusWarrior, hands down. Best representation of their thought-processes and maturity.

The true forum's champ, however, is GMagnum tbh.