578 réponses à ce sujet

[xxSgt_Reed_24xx]

Someone With Mass wrote...

xxSgt_Reed_24xx wrote...

No there wasn't another plan... but they didn't even have a plan A before that (I suppose Plan A was stop Saren in time... but Shepard failed at that). It's a necessary risk you have to take as there is no alternative. Whereas on Feros... you don't have to take the risk of the grenade not working and having enemies surround you... b/c you can just eliminate them and move on.  

You don't have to immediately view the grenades as being nonfunctional either.

And really, how long does it take to come to the conclusion that the grenades don't work? Three seconds?

I didn't think we were talking about immediately... like, say the grenades don't work and a few minutes later the colonists are back up and persuing Shepard from behind without him knowing? 

Anyway... even 3 seconds could be meaningful. You're three seconds too late to push the button or 3 hours... the Reapers are still here and be a reaping. 

[Wulfram]

I think the only real reason not to use the grenades on the colonists is that they're great against the Creepers, which IME tend to pose more of a threat.

[Someone With Mass]

And yet, you have enough time to waste sitting on the Citadel while the Normandy is in lockdown and pork one of your teammates.

[Pepper4]

FallTooDovahkiin wrote...

@AdmrialCheez
But dem trolla's shine down da lite on da forums
its y dey so interestn tbh

Magnum is taking over BSN

[Killjoy Cutter]

Someone With Mass wrote...

And yet, you have enough time to waste sitting on the Citadel while the Normandy is in lockdown and pork one of your teammates.

That's what I keep thinking -- how is a minute or two on Feros a big damn deal, but hours on the Citadel and days on random planets looking for trinkets no big deal? 

[AlexXIV]

So you kill the colonist because you are under time pressure. I guess you don't do any side quests then either? Or are you just feeling a bit hypocrite today? Because clearly it is a fact that you can save the colonists AND be on Ilos in time. Just like you can do Admiral Hackett's quests or any other while you should be searching for Saren. If you do that, and avoid any distraction from finding Saren I am inclined to agree with you that killing the colonists is somehow justified. Otherwise ... you're just not thinking hard enough.

[xxSgt_Reed_24xx]

Someone With Mass wrote...

And yet, you have enough time to waste sitting on the Citadel while the Normandy is in lockdown and pork one of your teammates.

The first one... you have no choice. The council and udina are morons and don't really believe in the reaper threat. You can't help being stuck there. If the galaxy falls b/c of that, it's not on Shepard. He got out of lockdown as quick as he could with the help of Anderson.

As for the "porking", that happens in transit to Ilos. You know, those hours of time you were just talking about earlier? What else are you going to do? Paperwork or cleaning weapons or w/e... isn't going to get you there any faster. Your ship only goes so fast. 

[xxSgt_Reed_24xx]

AlexXIV wrote...

So you kill the colonist because you are under time pressure. I guess you don't do any side quests then either? Or are you just feeling a bit hypocrite today? Because clearly it is a fact that you can save the colonists AND be on Ilos in time. Just like you can do Admiral Hackett's quests or any other while you should be searching for Saren. If you do that, and avoid any distraction from finding Saren I am inclined to agree with you that killing the colonists is somehow justified. Otherwise ... you're just not thinking hard enough.

They asked for a justification... I'm just rolling with the one someone provided. Maybe you guys could do the same instead of using the "it's the right thing to do" argument? 

All things only work out b/c Bioware makes it so. 

[CptBomBom00]

Wait it is possible to skip Feros? like on that cg tv trailer?

[AlexXIV]

xxSgt_Reed_24xx wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

So you kill the colonist because you are under time pressure. I guess you don't do any side quests then either? Or are you just feeling a bit hypocrite today? Because clearly it is a fact that you can save the colonists AND be on Ilos in time. Just like you can do Admiral Hackett's quests or any other while you should be searching for Saren. If you do that, and avoid any distraction from finding Saren I am inclined to agree with you that killing the colonists is somehow justified. Otherwise ... you're just not thinking hard enough.

They asked for a justification... I'm just rolling with the one someone provided. Maybe you guys could do the same instead of using the "it's the right thing to do" argument? 

All things only work out b/c Bioware makes it so. 

Well you could as well say they work out because of luck or destiny. It doesn't matter why they work out. Fact is Shepard can assume they work out and he can be right. That's what video games are for you. Unless you ask for removing save games or the ability to play a game more than once you will always have that. Bioware can't change that and nobody else can either. No matter of renegade or paragon, you can always know the outcome before you make a decision. In that case I know I can save the colonists without losing pace on my ultimate goal. So I do it. Everything else is just conjured up.

[Fathom72]

You know what makes me cringe? The fact that there are actually people getting paid to read through this kind of thread.

Poor souls. ;_;

[AlexXIV]

Fathom72 wrote...

You know what makes me cringe? The fact that there are actually people getting paid to read through this kind of thread.

Poor souls. ;_;

Well I am reading though them and I don't get paid. I wouldn't mind to be paid for it though. I could quit my job then.

[Someone With Mass]

xxSgt_Reed_24xx wrote...
As for the "porking", that happens in transit to Ilos. You know, those hours of time you were just talking about earlier? What else are you going to do? Paperwork or cleaning weapons or w/e... isn't going to get you there any faster. Your ship only goes so fast. 

Prepared weapons and armor tends to work better.

Could also plan strategies with your teammates instead of screwing them too.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 04 décembre 2011 - 08:00 .

[CptBomBom00]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

CptBomBom00 wrote...

Wait it is possible to skip Feros? like on that cg tv trailer?

No, you need it for the Cipher.

Good, because that really buged me, since I watched that trailer.

[xxSgt_Reed_24xx]

Someone With Mass wrote...

xxSgt_Reed_24xx wrote...
As for the "porking", that happens in transit to Ilos. You know, those hours of time you were just talking about earlier? What else are you going to do? Paperwork or cleaning weapons or w/e... isn't going to get you there any faster. Your ship only goes so fast. 

Prepared weapons and armor tends to work better.

Could also plan strategies with your teammates instead of screwing them too.

You could... or maybe all that was already done? Since, ya know, the "porking" happens right before Joker says hey guys, we're here! Maybe they just had to fill the last 10 minutes or w/e? hmmm?

[Kaiser Shepard]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...
Then please justify that PM you sent me the other day.

 

Don't have to. It's sad that you're still feeling hurt about it, though.

It isn't that as much as I am left wondering why a self-proclaimed paragon of morality would choose to do such a thing.

[Someone With Mass]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

It isn't that as much as I am left wondering why a self-proclaimed paragon of morality would choose to do such a thing.

You're honestly believing that I'm applying the same morals to real life as the few morals I can follow in a damn video game?

Oh...that's weak.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Or the squadmates you mysteriously don't bring along could get off the ship and guard the colonists...

[PauseforEffect]

The OP is speaking more from a biased viewpoint as the examples presented are given without specific examples. It also lacks the other side of paragon arguments that give credence to such a belief and the overgeneralization further emphasizes a cursory knowledge of the complexity of human beliefs in modern society.
People who choose the paragon path do not necessarily do it just to keep the status quo. Some believe that the more beneficial way of attaining the best outcome for one's own species is through a more subtle approach. There is a zen saying that true warriors never appear to be what they are. The calculating individuals understand there is a freedom in operating behind the scenes, while the ones officially in power have to be careful of every subterfuge operating within and outside of their influence. Paragons can be very cold, logical people, the equivalent of a serial killer or a sociopath trying to hide their intentions and motives. Other paragons simply believe that it's counterproductive to work with an organization that has a high casualty rate and a severely questionable outcome of success.
It is frequently taught that in order to succeed, cooperation is required. One of the first things taught in the military is to obey your superior without question. Disobeying could get you killed or worse, your team killed.
It is also very foolish to dismiss the importance of emotions. Daniel Goldman went into detail about how the ability to plan ahead long term is linked to emotions. A person can be highly intelligent but without emotions, cannot make a simple decision as to what day to reserve off for next week as the regard towards each day is the same and indistinguishable. It is only when emotions overwhelm logic that it becomes a hindrance. It is all a balancing act. We need emotions to properly assess other people's moods and emotions (such as your team in a high risk mission and whether to proceed or to fall back because one of the members might go hysterical on you). But we also need to know when to shut it off (like when sending in a specialist knowing they may get killed, even though they're a close friend) in order to get everyone out alive.
By the way, I'm a paragon.

[Sgt Stryker]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Once you've secured the area and disabled the colonists, either dismantle or omnigelify their weapons. Maybe even tie up the knocked-out colonists. Before you enter the thorian's lair, of course. 

Yeah, that's practical for Shepard to do.

Oh sure, it's not as expedient as mercilessly gunning them down, but Paragon was never about taking the quick and expedient path, now was it?

[Zeelx]

I'm also pretty damn sure renegade players are decided at birth. You can't become one, you are one. A true gentlemen/badass.


Yes. I'm awesome. I remembering debating with both Kaiser and Saphra, I think it was over a troll but nontheless I found their arguments more amusing than most of the ******-****** paragons pour. Also I've debated 1108090(Number guy) and I think he's an okay debater, I didn't find his arguments all that compelling.

[Sgt Stryker]

Oh look it's you again. Who wants to take bets on how long this account lasts?