Aller au contenu

Photo

Scripted events in ME3 (request lock from mod since I'm sorry I opened this discussion again...has been rehashed too many times)


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
130 réponses à ce sujet

#76
RinpocheSchnozberry

RinpocheSchnozberry
  • Members
  • 6 212 messages

DuckSoup wrote...

That's an interesting idea.

For me, if one of my team mates got shot during am ambush or something, I'd get pleasure from the realism. If I had to fight off my enemy knowing that my team mate is on the ground bleeding to death it might make me play differently - and appreciate the end result. 


I like the idea of a random squaddie getting shot or being disabled at the begining of a mission.  All too often, then companions are just there to do some extra damage.  Seeing one of them go down early on in a scripted event, or watching them get dragged off by hostile forces would immediately change the focus and the experience of a mission.  That's a really good way to add a sudden spike of tension to what would normally be yet another shoot everything and click the button mission.

I don't think that random characters should die though.  While there should be enough bitter to make the sweet rewarding, I think the player of the game needs to have agency in their game.  That's why I felt that the suicide mission was such a huge success.  Putting Tali in charge of the fire team was nuts and there should be a price that the player pays for a bad choice.  But companion characters shouldn't randomly die to a missle from a SAM site, I don't think.  While that might be real, I think the game would loose that sense of epic adventure that it currently has.

#77
Guest_DuckSoup_*

Guest_DuckSoup_*
  • Guests

Nyoka wrote...

But Ducksoup, that's what the people opposing the OP have been saying; you should have a say in what happens because you're the one playing the game. That doesn't mean you can do miracles and prevent everything bad from happening. But it would be nice if you could get out of your way to help someone you care about and sacrifice something else for him/her, and face the consequences of your choice later on.

There's a scene in Dragon Age 2 in which your mother is kidnapped and murdered in a pornographicly violent way (a mage is using body parts from different people to build a girlfriend or something like that, and that "collage" has the head of your mother; you get to hear her last words as she dies in your arms). This is a death just because, explicitly designed to add a little drama and make mages look bad and give you a personal reason to side with the templars. Her death has nothing to do with her or you or even with the mage-killer. It doesn't advance the story, either.

Now, imagine if that same death happened later on only if you have sided with the templars and the mage picks your mother in revenge or maybe as a bait to make you walk into his trap because he thinks you're leading the templars. You chose your side, now face the consequences. That's what AdmiralCheez and others are supporting.


I agree with this, I think. 

Some things can be controlled and others not. 

#78
Guest_DuckSoup_*

Guest_DuckSoup_*
  • Guests
Let me make it clear that I'm not saying as players we shouldn't have any control over our actions. Basically, we control ourselves and we make choices. The consequences of those choices is what is beyond our control.

So, for example, I would prefer it if, I don't know, I made a choice to save someone (and I feel good about myself) but then somewhere along the line that backfires. That's the kind of realism I mean. You make a choice to save your team mate, but perhaps an enemy appears from nowhere and shoots him. It would absolutely suck for me - I'd be so gutted - but I would also have a deeper experience because of it.

I don't know if I'm quite making sense. I'm sorry if it's garbled. I know what I mean.

#79
Guest_AwesomeName_*

Guest_AwesomeName_*
  • Guests

DuckSoup wrote...

Let me make it clear that I'm not saying as players we shouldn't have any control over our actions. Basically, we control ourselves and we make choices. The consequences of those choices is what is beyond our control.

So, for example, I would prefer it if, I don't know, I made a choice to save someone (and I feel good about myself) but then somewhere along the line that backfires. That's the kind of realism I mean. You make a choice to save your team mate, but perhaps an enemy appears from nowhere and shoots him. It would absolutely suck for me - I'd be so gutted - but I would also have a deeper experience because of it.

I don't know if I'm quite making sense. I'm sorry if it's garbled. I know what I mean.


I'm down with that^

#80
Guest_Nyoka_*

Guest_Nyoka_*
  • Guests
Continuing with the DA2 example. We can have a Virmire in disguise here. Imagine if you side with the templars the mage killer thing happens and you lose your mother. That's the price of siding with the templars. We can go and try to rescue her, but you will see her die anyway. However, if you side with the templars, you gain the favor of the chantry and the city government. You gain social status, you regain the family estate and you can use your new influence to get Bethany out of the Circle under your protection because Meredith trusts you that much.

However, if you side with the mages, your mother will live, at the cost of Bethany being locked away in the Circle and you not being able to get out of Gamlen's shack.

This boils down to a choice: Leandra or Bethany. It's disguised under a layer of choices and consequences to make it look a bit less obvious, but you can't save both. Would that be good enough?

#81
Guest_DuckSoup_*

Guest_DuckSoup_*
  • Guests
As long as there are some negative elements, I'm happy. I don't want everyone to survive and live happily ever after for the sake of keeping people sweet. I want bad stuff to happen in my games and sometimes I want those bad things to happen because me. Just like real life.

#82
KenKenpachi

KenKenpachi
  • Members
  • 5 768 messages
To the Ongoing Conversation, whats the point in having squadies if they are just going to die? Also in Real Military units precautions are taken to prevent ambushes, and its generally attempted to save ones comrades, plus medical advances of today allow soldiers to survive when they previously would not, that that any of this matters,

Mass Effect is the A-typical Scifi Space Darma, Man fights alien, Alien Dies, Man Wins. No one wants to play a game that you can't win, unless your a very depressed sort and find your idea of "realism" enjoyable.

I mean walking into a hall and having random squadmate you brought with you to die is stupid as hell. It serves no purpose other than to show the "Horrors" of War, which a game will never be able to depict, because unless your VERY unstable, you won't have the same bonds of connections as you would as if your best friend was mowed down in front of you. For Example in Reach, Kat's Death was so pointless and boring.

On the other hand Deaths that are in the story and serve a point are fine, Such as the infamous Death of Aierth/Aieris in FF7 (sp?) that served as a motivator for many players to go stomp on Sephy big time, or for example, the Masters Death in Jade Empire (Though faked, was a major driving force) Other Games you have various loved ones or even whole home towns killed to motivate the player, at first with revenge, then determination to keep what he has left alive and safe.

Other Deaths worthy of being put in a game are "Last stands" or self sacrifice, such as Lavitiz and Rose in Legend of Dragoon, Cait Sith in FF7, The whole of Nobel Team minus Kat, and Jun(who survived), the Sgt in Halo Wars. Most of these Deaths served a point and show cased worthy qualities, even asperiations. Even who ever didn't survive ME1 is noteable, though that came as a dick move.

So when it comes to Deaths, I'ld prefer they served a point in a game, RPGs are about Story, and what you the player can do.

If you want scripted deaths, I'm fine with that but make them make sense, and restrict them based on character architype, and never more than one or two, really, if you go over that you WILL only ****** off your fans. Hell Soul Survivors might sound "bad ass" but in the real world, most medals they get are out of Pitty. It is the guy who jumps on the gernade, or stands atop the burning tank with a machinegun while his friends get to cover, that gets the Medal of Honor. A soul survivor in the Military Context is often seen as a Failure who got his people killed and isn't worthy of a command, and had the missfortune of coming back alive.

And traditionaly a "win" is when you have more people left at the end of the day, not a trail of caskets. And in the case of ME:3 I can think of two good "sacrifice" characters. Plus with all the worlds under attack I think we'll get our fill of death. Though at times I think why so many clamoir for more, is the shelterd protecive lifes they live.

So Random Deaths, no thanks, that'll just add a bunch of Rage. If we get those, thats fine, I can always return my game.

Modifié par KenKenpachi, 04 décembre 2011 - 03:40 .


#83
Guest_AwesomeName_*

Guest_AwesomeName_*
  • Guests
*Ahem* What's the point in life if you're just going to die in the end?

#84
Chewin

Chewin
  • Members
  • 8 478 messages

DuckSoup wrote...
As long as there are some negative elements, I'm happy. I don't want everyone to survive and live happily ever after for the sake of keeping people sweet. I want bad stuff to happen in my games and sometimes I want those bad things to happen because me. Just like real life.


The less stress people have in their lives, the more they want it in-game.

#85
xxSgt_Reed_24xx

xxSgt_Reed_24xx
  • Members
  • 3 312 messages

AdmiralCheez wrote...

There should always be a choice. Between two squadmates, between a squadmate or a vital war asset, between a squadmate and some other important/beloved NPC, etc. Because that's what Mass Effect is all about. Yeah, you have to make sacrifices, but what you sacrifice is up to you.


I agree with this. Now if only Mass Effect actually had choices that matter...

#86
Guest_DuckSoup_*

Guest_DuckSoup_*
  • Guests
The Military may well be trained, but it doesn't stop soldiers dying. I want my game to be realistic, thanks.

#87
Guest_DuckSoup_*

Guest_DuckSoup_*
  • Guests

Chewin3 wrote...

DuckSoup wrote...
As long as there are some negative elements, I'm happy. I don't want everyone to survive and live happily ever after for the sake of keeping people sweet. I want bad stuff to happen in my games and sometimes I want those bad things to happen because me. Just like real life.


The less stress people have in their lives, the more they want it in-game.


I've had plenty of stress in my life. 

#88
KenKenpachi

KenKenpachi
  • Members
  • 5 768 messages

AwesomeName wrote...

*Ahem* What's the point in life if you're just going to die in the end?


That differs from Person to person, very rarely will those match. Is it to leave a Legacy? To serve another? To make the World better? To amass a fortune? To have as much fun as you can?

Some will say some of those, some, all, some a few. What one wants out of life another will not. What is holy to one is boring to another. Fun or Evil. Right, Wrong, and neither.

The point is for you to find, the path is yours alone to walk. I have answers for myself, but my answer would not apply to you or others I suspect. What I want out of life, you may not.

#89
xxSgt_Reed_24xx

xxSgt_Reed_24xx
  • Members
  • 3 312 messages

KenKenpachi wrote...

The point is for you to find, the path is yours alone to walk.


And may the force be with you, young padawan.

#90
Guest_AwesomeName_*

Guest_AwesomeName_*
  • Guests

Chewin3 wrote...

DuckSoup wrote...
As long as there are some negative elements, I'm happy. I don't want everyone to survive and live happily ever after for the sake of keeping people sweet. I want bad stuff to happen in my games and sometimes I want those bad things to happen because me. Just like real life.


The less stress people have in their lives, the more they want it in-game.


Not necessarily true.  I know DS adores stories like Wuthering Heights or Stuart: A Life Backwards even with all the stress from real life.

#91
Sir Edric

Sir Edric
  • Members
  • 566 messages

Chewin3 wrote...

DuckSoup wrote...
As long as there are some negative elements, I'm happy. I don't want everyone to survive and live happily ever after for the sake of keeping people sweet. I want bad stuff to happen in my games and sometimes I want those bad things to happen because me. Just like real life.


The less stress people have in their lives, the more they want it in-game.


And the more stress you have in life, the less you want it in-game.

Or something like that.

#92
KenKenpachi

KenKenpachi
  • Members
  • 5 768 messages

xxSgt_Reed_24xx wrote...

KenKenpachi wrote...

The point is for you to find, the path is yours alone to walk.


And may the force be with you, young padawan.

And the point in life for some is to be walking pricks it seems.

As to stress, heh "Having" and "had" Arn't the same, and I have plenty of Stress to not want it in my games.

Modifié par KenKenpachi, 04 décembre 2011 - 03:51 .


#93
Guest_AwesomeName_*

Guest_AwesomeName_*
  • Guests

KenKenpachi wrote...

AwesomeName wrote...

*Ahem* What's the point in life if you're just going to die in the end?


That differs from Person to person, very rarely will those match. Is it to leave a Legacy? To serve another? To make the World better? To amass a fortune? To have as much fun as you can?

Some will say some of those, some, all, some a few. What one wants out of life another will not. What is holy to one is boring to another. Fun or Evil. Right, Wrong, and neither.

The point is for you to find, the path is yours alone to walk. I have answers for myself, but my answer would not apply to you or others I suspect. What I want out of life, you may not.


Lol, it was a rhetorical question XD. 

#94
Chewin

Chewin
  • Members
  • 8 478 messages

AwesomeName wrote...
Not necessarily true.  I know DS adores stories like Wuthering Heights or Stuart: A Life Backwards even with all the stress from real life.


I wasn't refering to her.

#95
KenKenpachi

KenKenpachi
  • Members
  • 5 768 messages

AwesomeName wrote...

KenKenpachi wrote...

AwesomeName wrote...

*Ahem* What's the point in life if you're just going to die in the end?


That differs from Person to person, very rarely will those match. Is it to leave a Legacy? To serve another? To make the World better? To amass a fortune? To have as much fun as you can?

Some will say some of those, some, all, some a few. What one wants out of life another will not. What is holy to one is boring to another. Fun or Evil. Right, Wrong, and neither.

The point is for you to find, the path is yours alone to walk. I have answers for myself, but my answer would not apply to you or others I suspect. What I want out of life, you may not.


Lol, it was a rhetorical question XD. 


Ah, Its something I've ponderd alot given events in my life, pardon.

#96
xxSgt_Reed_24xx

xxSgt_Reed_24xx
  • Members
  • 3 312 messages

KenKenpachi wrote...

xxSgt_Reed_24xx wrote...

KenKenpachi wrote...

The point is for you to find, the path is yours alone to walk.


And may the force be with you, young padawan.

And the point in life for some is to be walking pricks it seems.

As to stress, heh "Having" and "had" Arn't the same, and I have plenty of Stress to not want it in my games.


I can see why people would want that... but I can also see DuckSoup's side of it. 

That's why I agreed with what AdmiralCheez said (well, the part I quoted)... you should be able to choose what is lost to you and what survives... basically you can choose to have all the stress or choose the less stressful route. Basically make the game what you will...

Edit: This is why I normally have multiple squadmates die on the SM... b/c I think it's foolish to go on a SM and not suffer any casualties. Yet some would think differently and have everyone survive.

Modifié par xxSgt_Reed_24xx, 04 décembre 2011 - 03:59 .


#97
Guest_DuckSoup_*

Guest_DuckSoup_*
  • Guests

KenKenpachi wrote...

xxSgt_Reed_24xx wrote...

KenKenpachi wrote...

The point is for you to find, the path is yours alone to walk.


And may the force be with you, young padawan.

And the point in life for some is to be walking pricks it seems.

As to stress, heh "Having" and "had" Arn't the same, and I have plenty of Stress to not want it in my games.


Say KenKenpachi. 

You may not want any realism in your games, Ken, but a lot of others do. There has to be a balance somewhere, doesn't there?

As for stress, I've had and have plenty. I could reel you off a list of all the sh*tty things that have happened in my life, if you wish? Drug addiction, debt, rape, a series of terrible relationships, etc etc. It doesn't mean I want to stick my head in the sand about it and only play or do 'fun' things. 

#98
GMagnum

GMagnum
  • Members
  • 1 670 messages
ur hands r shakin cold
dese hand r meant 2 hold
spek 2 me

wen all u gotta kep is strong move along mov along lyke i kno u do
n even wen ur hope is gone mov along mv along jus 2 make it thru
move along mov along

so a day wen uve lost urself compltly culd be a nite wen ur life end
such a heart dat will leed u 2 decivin
all da pain held n ur
hand r shakin cold dese hand r meant 2 hold
spek 2 me

wen all u gotta kep is strong move along mov along lyke i kno u do
n even wen ur hope is gone mov along mv along jus 2 make it thru
move along mov along tbh

#99
Guest_AwesomeName_*

Guest_AwesomeName_*
  • Guests

Chewin3 wrote...

AwesomeName wrote...
Not necessarily true.  I know DS adores stories like Wuthering Heights or Stuart: A Life Backwards even with all the stress from real life.


I wasn't refering to her.


I know; hence me saying, "not necessarily true".  DS was an example.

#100
KenKenpachi

KenKenpachi
  • Members
  • 5 768 messages
Which is why I added the rest Duck. As in "Deaths that have a point" as I said those I don't mind, as an example Thane

Say we are in a bad way and we are running low on Ammo, have some explosives. He's dying right? So why not script him blowing a few cerberus agents to hell and having us escape? Fits a point, its a reasonable Death.

As to the list, Hmm...you might be surprised by whats on mine.