130 réponses à ce sujet

[RamirezWolfen]

I'm in agreement with KenKenpachi here.

[Fiery Phoenix]

GMagnum wrote...

ur hands r shakin cold
dese hand r meant 2 hold
spek 2 me

wen all u gotta kep is strong move along mov along lyke i kno u do
n even wen ur hope is gone mov along mv along jus 2 make it thru
move along mov along

so a day wen uve lost urself compltly culd be a nite wen ur life end
such a heart dat will leed u 2 decivin
all da pain held n ur
hand r shakin cold dese hand r meant 2 hold
spek 2 me

wen all u gotta kep is strong move along mov along lyke i kno u do
n even wen ur hope is gone mov along mv along jus 2 make it thru
move along mov along tbh

Your hands are shaking cold
These hands are meant to hold
Speak to me

When all you've got to keep is strong, move along, move along like I know you do
And even when your hope is gone, move along, move along just to make it through
Move along, move along

So a day when you've lost yourself completely could be a night when your life ends
Such a heart that will lead you to deceiving all the pain held
And your hands are shaking cold
These hands are meant to hold
Speak to me

When all you've got to keep is strong, move along, move along like I know you do
And even when your hope is gone, move along, move along just to make it through
Move along, move along... To be honest

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

I like the Hand of God in my game! Put the random death even more accurate

[KenKenpachi]

I try to think most deaths serve a purpose, at the very least it free's up space for new life if you buy into the Circle of life concept. But yes some Deaths are pointless or accidental.

But I mean hell if you want to play the chance game, you run into an "Unwinnable" game at some point as an example, there have been several training units or even combat units of squad size (using combat units as well we are talking about Mass effect) that have been wiped out as well a soldier threw the pin and dropped the Gernade, or held on to it for to long, or ****ed up on an artillery strik read off.

When you get into the realm of unscripted deaths, you have to allow for a "chance" system, and as an old adage Goes "Lady Luck is queen on the battlefield." It just runs too many risks from a point. Or leaves Shepard short changed, like say in place of the "revival" system, we get "oh they are dead" when they fall, you can run into a choke point and well, litterally be unable to go on. Real military units can overcome this given the amount of support or number of supporting units to flank or overrun a position, even in real life "small Units" like Swat Teams tend to have 20 or more members on a mission unlike what we see on Film or games.

Its a programming issue, so far games just can't stack up to full scale Warfare needed to take a choke a point. When you look at a Division thats 12-15 thousand men. And thats just Combat troops not the supply, medical, and adjutant units. Shepard had less men than a Military squad in ME2, nevermind ME3 will see a cut back.

If you have random deaths, and only 10 members, with three per mission, each membet dead is a 10% drop off in combat efficency, once all units are exhausted and pulled of the line for wounds or deaths, unlike a Real Military unit you have no replacements in the back. Rainbow six had a system of Generic replacements however, but it forced good tactics, as well the replacements were green and sucked. One Dead Combat Vet is Worth 10 live Recruits. So you want to keep the vet alive.

So you can run into a game breaking situation or an Unwinnable spot.

Modifié par KenKenpachi, 04 décembre 2011 - 04:19 .

[xxSgt_Reed_24xx]

Jedi Sentinel Arian wrote...

I like the Hand of God in my game! Put the random death even more accurate

You fail!

YOU LEFT THE BEST MK CHARACTER OUT OF YOUR SIG! 

[wildannie]

KenKenpachi wrote...

Which is why I added the rest Duck. As in "Deaths that have a point" as I said those I don't mind, as an example Thane

Say we are in a bad way and we are running low on Ammo, have some explosives. He's dying right? So why not script him blowing a few cerberus agents to hell and having us escape? Fits a point, its a reasonable Death.

As to the list, Hmm...you might be surprised by whats on mine.

1- Because he could already be dead so he could only fulfill this role in circumstances where he'd survived.  What would happen if he's not there?

2 - Because he's a LI and what you propose as his unavoidable scripted end would p*ss off the fans who care most about the character.

I think that with LIs they should cater for a variety of outcomes.

[byzantine horse]

If it is a different character every time or can be avoided it is fine.

If someone has to die the first one is the best so that you, while not outright choosing whom to leave behind, can prepare in such a way that the character you have put the most time and effort in doesn't need to die. An example of this is the end of ME2, where many of your squadmates can die if you don't finish their personal quests first or get all upgrades for the Normandy. Those deaths are avoidable and the amount of casualties you have is determined by who you would judge as expendable (the air shaft) or simply didn't care enough about (those whose quests you didn't finish).

Modifié par byzantine horse, 04 décembre 2011 - 04:24 .

[KenKenpachi]

Valid Points. Wildannie

They really screwed the poouch with ME2....and then go "We didn't see this coming".

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

xxSgt_Reed_24xx wrote...

Jedi Sentinel Arian wrote...

I like the Hand of God in my game! Put the random death even more accurate

You fail!

YOU LEFT THE BEST MK CHARACTER OUT OF YOUR SIG! 

They're MY Minions . They're not for the amusement of yours.

[Fiery Phoenix]

KenKenpachi wrote...

Valid Points. Wildannie

They really screwed the poouch with ME2....and then go "We didn't see this coming".

Which really goes surprisingly contrary to what they've often said about Mass Effect being a planned trilogy. I always thought they must have had some kind of plan if they went out of their way to include a suicide mission in the middle chapter. But apparently not.

[xxSgt_Reed_24xx]

Jedi Sentinel Arian wrote...

xxSgt_Reed_24xx wrote...

Jedi Sentinel Arian wrote...

I like the Hand of God in my game! Put the random death even more accurate

You fail!

YOU LEFT THE BEST MK CHARACTER OUT OF YOUR SIG! 

They're MY Minions . They're not for the amusement of yours.

*BSN Face*

I demand that you add Sub-Zero to your minions! NAO!

[KenKenpachi]

Mei Mei wrote...

KenKenpachi wrote...

Valid Points. Wildannie

They really screwed the poouch with ME2....and then go "We didn't see this coming".

There were unexpected developments in the creation of the game. Changing of lead writers, the additional of MP. You never step into the same river twice.

Yeah really, more so if you laid mines in it.

Speaking of this is another reasson well that...you might not can have any deaths. a Realy bad run...aka the stupid I'm an ass Run as I like to call it, you can have at the lowest two to three live squadies and shep...with only so far two new guys, and one return from ME 1. Your mighty short handed more so if some of your ME2 survivors are only camo's I mean you might not even be able but to just barely make a full squad.

Modifié par KenKenpachi, 04 décembre 2011 - 04:40 .

[xxSgt_Reed_24xx]

KenKenpachi wrote...

Mei Mei wrote...

KenKenpachi wrote...

Valid Points. Wildannie

They really screwed the poouch with ME2....and then go "We didn't see this coming".

There were unexpected developments in the creation of the game. Changing of lead writers, the additional of MP. You never step into the same river twice.

Yeah really, more so if you laid mines in it.

Speaking of this is another reasson well that...you might not can have any deaths. a Realy bad run...aka the stupid I'm an ass Run as I like to call it, you can have at the lowest two to three live squadies and shep...with only so far two new guys, and one return from ME 1. Your might short handed more so if some of your ME2 survivors are only camo's I mean you might not even be able but to just barely make a full squad.

But maybe people want their game to be that way... maybe they want the challenge of having less squadmates?

you should be able to choose what is lost to you and what survives... basically you can choose to have all the stress or choose the less stressful route. Basically make the game what you will...

This is why I normally have multiple squadmates die on the SM... b/c I think it's foolish to go on a SM and not suffer any casualties. Yet some would think differently and have everyone survive.

[Someone With Mass]

Fiery Phoenix wrote...
Which really goes surprisingly contrary to what they've often said about Mass Effect being a planned trilogy. I always thought they must have had some kind of plan if they went out of their way to include a suicide mission in the middle chapter. But apparently not.

I think it was said at one point that they only had planned the frame for the trilogy (what it'll be about and how it'll end) and not so much with the picture itself.

Because if they had that, I doubt that we'd have ended up with ten new squadmates in ME2 to make everything needlessly complicated. Could've easily cut them down to half that size and it'd have worked better.

Could've also given them more focus on the Collectors, instead of making them look like a minor inconvenience that shows up a grand total of three times.

And they pretty much just shoved the suicide mission in there to make it look radical and serious.

As for scripted events/deaths, I don't want them to be that many in ME3, because we have about seven squadmates including the DLC one, and reducing the manpower by like 40% probably won't work in our favor at all.

Plus, I think they can receive the same effect with NPCs. Just look at how much debate that kid in the Earth demo inspired.

[xxSgt_Reed_24xx]

Someone With Mass wrote...


Plus, I think they can receive the same effect with NPCs. Just look at how much debate that kid in the Earth demo inspired.

Oh god... 

I hope they don't kill refund guy!!! (or maybe they should... right when he finally gets his refund...)

[Fiery Phoenix]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Fiery Phoenix wrote...
Which really goes surprisingly contrary to what they've often said about Mass Effect being a planned trilogy. I always thought they must have had some kind of plan if they went out of their way to include a suicide mission in the middle chapter. But apparently not.

I think it was said at one point that they only had planned the frame for the trilogy (what it'll be about and how it'll end) and not so much with the picture itself.

Because if they had that, I doubt that we'd have ended up with ten new squadmates in ME2 to make everything needlessly complicated. Could've easily cut them down to half that size and it'd have worked better.

Could've also given them more focus on the Collectors, instead of making them look like a minor inconvenience that shows up a grand total of three times.

And they pretty much just shoved the suicide mission in there to make it look radical and serious.

As for scripted events/deaths, I don't want them to be that many in ME3, because we have about seven squadmates including the DLC one, and reducing the manpower by like 40% probably won't work in our favor at all.

Plus, I think they can receive the same effect with NPCs. Just look at how much debate that kid in the Earth demo inspired.

Can you tell me how much scripted stuff there is in the leaked docs, without spoiling anything? Did you get the feeling that many things were really out of control when reading the draft?

[-Skorpious-]

I welcome scripted squad deaths in ME3. I felt ME2 really downplayed the collector/reaper threat if it is possible for Shepard's entire crew to escape the conflict unscathed, so as long as longtime favorites (yes, this includes Garrus) go out in a blaze of glory I will be satisfied.

In short, Shepard isn't a god - he/she can't provide immunity to an individual for simply being a friend.

Whoops, the title is dramatically different than the one that was listed in my recent activity page. Sorry. 

Modifié par -Skorpious-, 04 décembre 2011 - 10:00 .

[Iakus]

 I'm opposed to a scripted death for Shepard.  Though I have no problem with Shepard being able to die due to self-sacrifice (like the Warden in DAO) or poor decision-making (like failShep in ME2) Shepard's fate should be in the hands of the player.

As for NPCs, it depends.  If they have a scripted death, it needs to be something that fits both them and the story.  Prefereably doing something truly heroic.  In short, it would have to be meaningful.  Think Sagacious Zu in Jade Empire holding back Death's Hand while the party escapes..  

If Miranda has to die, it should be doing something that helps bring down teh Illusive Man or Cerberus as a whole.

If Jack dies, it should be tearing up a Reaper from the inside and crashing it into another Reaper.

If Grunt and/or Wrex die, it should be under a massive pile of husks as they hold a position while some vital mission is underway.  

If Kasumi dies, it should be while delivering some vital clue or component she stole from Cerberus or the Reapers.

If Zaeed dies, it better be to something no one walks away from

In short, we're invested in these characters.  If they die, they should go out heroes that will be remembered.  Not as punks.

[InvincibleHero]

The problem with video games is the hero becomes so powerful that people think they can literally do anything. They are just one person and much is beyond their control. You almost never have a choice in what happens. You have to react to what is given. ME is not a deity driven game like Populous or Sims even. You have control of one person that has tacit control of several other characters in his sphere of influence while billions are outside of your grand plan for the ME universe. BW has the liscense to create that after all.

As for a mention of ME is supposed to be fun. It depends on what you think is fun. BW never promised happy happy you'll never be sad fun. They promised a story where you would have some choices and feel some emotion from it. I will be entertained no matter which virtual chacter in the ME universe dies or even if they all live.

I don't think it is healthy for people to live so vicariously through any media. You have to disassociate from media that you consume. They should make you think or provoke emotions but never allow them to sway you as a person. Getting depressed from a game should make one not want to play any (but those you know to reinforce what you want) because you cannot handle them in an entirely rational manner. It borders on addictive or OCD behavior to be that involved.

[Lunatic LK47]

InvincibleHero wrote...

As for a mention of ME is supposed to be fun. It depends on what you think is fun. BW never promised happy happy you'll never be sad fun. They promised a story where you would have some choices and feel some emotion from it. I will be entertained no matter which virtual chacter in the ME universe dies or even if they all live.

Uh, I don't think every person in the world is asking for that. Last time I checked, it was only 1-5 people on these boards. What the player or fan-base (depending who is using what terms) is that they earn the happy ending they spent hundreds of hours of their life on playing, at least get an ending where "Hey, things will work out." I am highly doubtful every single player on this board, if not the entire world wants the "Rainbows and unicorns" endings. I am not the "Rainbow and unicorn" person, and I want at the least is for all of the characters I spent those 100+ hours getting know them or bled side-by-side with to actually get out of ME3 alive.

The main concern is there will be an utter ****storm because of how certain characters are handled basically telling the fan-bases of those NPCs (i.e. the Virmire Survivor getting the shortest end of the stick as one example) are being told "You liked the wrong character." Why bother giving us these characters if they're going to die regardless? As a result, I end up being apathetic. I know I ended up being apathetic with how to handle sacrificing Ashley or Kaidan on Virmire when it came through my 3rd through 6th Shepards, and it all happened at a flip of a coin or if I wanted to make some player-made story twist (My male infiltrator sacrificed Ashley, and he was planning to bone her before that fateful day) Coming from someone whose first playthrough is romancing Ashley, I would end up feeling like I wasted my time bothering on getting to know her, and the same could be said for having a FemShep that romanced Kaidan.