15 réponses à ce sujet

[gandanlin]

I usually play as a male character.  But I have now played all the possible origins and all the possible classes and builds.  Even one previous female character (female dwarf rogue). 

But I had never played the female noble origins storyline, soooo...

Interesting game.  The final scene on the rooftop of Fort Drakon sort of surprised me.  Deirdre, my Warden, refused Morrigan's offer of the Dark Ritual.  She was in a romance with Alistair and it seemed in character for her to refuse that option.

I was thinking that Deirdre was headed toward the ultimate sacrifice sort of ending this game...  but hey ... surprise ending! 

Perhaps I will have to experiment with the other female origins a little more.

[Merilsell]

Yeah, Alistair won't let the woman he loves not just die like that, which is something that I find frustrating and incredibly fitting at the same time to his character.

Glad you enjoyed the other side of DA, however. As a woman myself, I really enjoyed the Morrigan romance too with my M!Warden. It certainly gives you a broader perceptive to things in the game's world and I love that aspect on DA:O.

[Shinobu]

Try the F!Tabris with Alistair romance. It's intense.

[Corker]

I really wish that, rather than cutscene that ending as they do, they would have turned Alistair from 'gold circle' (companion) to 'blue circle' (ally) and let the chips fall where they may. Or, if the f!Warden resists his offer, have him shield bash her or something.

It might be in-character for him, but it was extremely out-of-character for my Warden to stand there and let him.

[Bleachrude]

Corker wrote...

I really wish that, rather than cutscene that ending as they do, they would have turned Alistair from 'gold circle' (companion) to 'blue circle' (ally) and let the chips fall where they may. Or, if the f!Warden resists his offer, have him shield bash her or something.

It might be in-character for him, but it was extremely out-of-character for my Warden to stand there and let him.

Not necessarily....

If you were like the vast majority of people with no prior knowledge, that scene would've left you going "wait..what?!" Basically too stunned to react....

I know my SO actually didn't react at all at that scene since at the time she had been mad at alistair for the public breakup (she had been playing a female elven mage) and thought to *punish* him by dying a glorious death...when he simply took over, she just watched in disbelief she told me...she totally forgot it was a game at that point

[Corker]

If the Warden were like the vast majority of people, she would be caught flat-footed by any number of in-game surprises (Uldred turning into a giant demon, the appearance of the Broodmother, Riordan's Landsmeet surprise, suits of armor coming to life in Redcliffe).

And I felt like I had more prior warning on Alistair's pulling rank than most of those. It depends on your dialogue choices, I suppose, but even post-breakup she and Al confirmed their feelings for each other. Not a wild leap to thinking he's going to have a problem with the self-sacrifice plan.

It's a powerful ending, and I suppose the fear was that folks who didn't want it would just reload until they beat Alistair to the AD. It still doesn't sit well with me. Taking away the hero's agency at the climactic moment of the Great Battle - and doing it only if the hero is a woman - rankles.

[Bleachrude]

It's a powerful ending, and I suppose the fear was that folks who didn't want it would just reload until they beat Alistair to the AD. It still doesn't sit well with me. Taking away the hero's agency at the climactic moment of the Great Battle - and doing it only if the hero is a woman - rankles.

Well, technically, you _ARE_ caught flat-footed anyime a cutscene takes place...for example, using your own examples, shouldn't the warden be fat enough to stop Uldred turning that poor mage into a demon?

Similarly, wouldn't it make more sense to allow you to adjourn the landsmeet so you, Riordan and Alistair could talk in a private room?

That said, I can see how it could be considered sexist that only female wardens have the possibility of that ending..but then again, it is NOT a certainity even for female wardens since it only triggers if the warden had been in a romance with alistair up to the landsmeet...

[gandanlin]

I suppose the dialogue choices I made in my game gave the indication that Alistair wasn't going to like Deirdre taking the final blow on the Archdemon. But the last thing Deirdre said was that she was going to do the deed. Not the way it went, however.

I had a male warden do the ultimate sacrifice many games ago. I think (though the memory is foggy) he was in a romance with someone in the team. She did not leap in at the last minute to prevent that choice made by a male warden. So, yeah, I can see why Corker is saying it doesn't sit well with her.

But then again, it has to be a Warden that takes the last blow, so I guess the comparison is not exactly parallel.

Modifié par gandanlin, 05 décembre 2011 - 08:21 .

[ShimmeringDjinn]

gandanlin wrote...
 I think (though the memory is foggy) he was in a romance with someone in the team. She did not leap in at the last minute to prevent that choice made by a male warden. So, yeah, I can see why Corker is saying it doesn't sit well with her.

Don't mean to butt in, BUT the others in the party are *not* Wardens so why would they offer to take the blow? After all only Wardens know that the final blow to the Archdemon is fatal *Shruggs*

Edit. Unless the Warden went off and revealed ALL the Warden secrets to their none Warden love interest. But still, even IF they had, ONLY a Warden can kill the beast without the ritual, so the love interest would have likely died for nothing because the Blight would have continued.

Modifié par ShimmeringDjinn, 05 décembre 2011 - 08:25 .

[gandanlin]

Right. I thought of that just as you were writing your post. I must have edited just as you were posting.

[ShimmeringDjinn]

gandanlin wrote...

Right. I thought of that just as you were writing your post. I must have edited just as you were posting.

Lol well I am a very slow typer, so no worrys

[gandanlin]

But as far as fitting with Alistair's character, his actions here were very odd. Up until this point he seemed okay with being king. Then, as soon as Deirdre says she is going to take the final blow, Alistair declares he didn't really want to be king anyway and prevents Deirdre from doing what she wanted to do.

That did not fit with my expectations of him this game. Or with the way I wanted Deirdre to act. A suprise ending, true enough, but one that sort of left me wondering a little.

[Corker]

If Alistair were Alison, and she took the final blow for a male Warden she was romancing, I don't think it would sit well with folks. I suspect the word "emasculating" would be used.

But the current forced Warden Commander ending is supposed to be "romantic."

Just not buying it.

[HolyAvenger]

Corker wrote...

If Alistair were Alison, and she took the final blow for a male Warden she was romancing, I don't think it would sit well with folks. I suspect the word "emasculating" would be used.

That would have been awesome...

[gandanlin]

In the grand scheme of things I suppose the question of why the story ends this way is probably not that important.

I took a social anthropology course a few years back, and we covered subjects like "gender and social organization." I seem to recall one theory that claimed males are more likely to be sacrificed (when necessary) by society than females, because females are the only sex able to bear children. A society can lose many males to warfare or disease and overcome those losses, but when a society loses many females it is a much more difficult task to remake the society as it was before the losses.

Of course we were studying small-scale societies mostly. Some sort of like Ferelden, actually, though most of them were smaller in scale. But anyway, maybe that was where Alistair was getting his ideas of self-sacrifice -- from the social view that it is less destructive to a society in the long run when males are sacrificed.

[Penarddun]

Corker wrote...
It's a powerful ending, and I suppose the fear was that folks who didn't want it would just reload until they beat Alistair to the AD. It still doesn't sit well with me. Taking away the hero's agency at the climactic moment of the Great Battle - and doing it only if the hero is a woman - rankles.

I waver between feeling resentful for being powerless to stop that ending, and favored? (not sure if that is the right word), that a female Warden gets the opportunity to experience an ending like that.

Corker wrote...
If Alistair were Alison, and she took the
final blow for a male Warden she was romancing, I don't think it would
sit well with folks. I suspect the word "emasculating" would be used.

I would have liked to see that!  I believe there is a mod out there that gives the final decision back to the Warden, even with the romance activated with Alistair.

Modifié par Penarddun, 13 décembre 2011 - 01:19 .