236 réponses à ce sujet

[HK-90210]

Zeelx wrote...

Then again. We get a bunch of fans who don't know what an rpg is. So enthralled with their FPS games think ME3 has to be some sort of FPS bastardization. I'm not humble enough to think those type of fans are "equal" to me. I'm not the "original Bioware fanboy" but I do have respect for the RPG genre. Some of these fans do not, these fans do not deserve respect.

And of course, we have other fans who have their own opinions of what RPGs are, and insist that they are the only interpretation of that genre. And they welcome no changes or alterations to their own version, constantly banging their heads against the evolution of RPGs, and gaming in general. 

Not saying you're one of those fans, but they are there.

[Jaron Oberyn]

Gatt9 wrote....

1.  That's a really interesting question,  lets turn it around,  why do you feel entitled to demand RPG's now be TPS's,  and degrade people who don't accept it?

That's why I feel entitled.  Because you don't even understand what the problem is.

2.  I often wonder if you think before you post.  I've bought just about every Bioware game but I'm not part of the original fanbase?  I guess all of you who just popped up in the last 5 years are Bioware's real original fanbase?

Seriously Phaedon,  Bioware isn't Bioware anymore,  it's EA-Bioware.  I'm pretty confident you're going to learn that lesson the really hard way this March given the information thus far.

You do realize that Phaedon spends all of his time kissing up to Bioware on these forums right? As for your point, I do find this interesting myself. It seems as if the people who bought ME2 as their first bioware game are the self entitled "fanboys", while the people who know them for deep RPGs from their recent games are attacked for not wanting a third person shooter. It's ok to want ME3 to be more shooter, but it's not ok to want more rpg elements. 

Phaedons so caught up with himself he figures his opinion is fact. Let's remember, this is the guy who thought ME3 wasn't going to include multiplayer even after the magazine cover came out.  Just imagine the disappointment when they announced it on the forum. Devastated. 


-Polite




 


 

[Darth Death]

I take it you had an individual or maybe many in mind, that inspired you to construct this story? A good story btw, I'm actually surprise of your mannerism while addressing such an issue. Wisdom & truth doesn't really mix well here on these forums, but commendable nevertheless.

[Gibb_Shepard]

Phaedon you've only ever played 2 BW games. That series is pretty much completely different from anything BW has ever done. You're basically saying you want something from Bioware, while others want something else. This is just another opinionated thread in a clever disguise.

You can't play DAO can you Phaedon? Too slow for you? Not enough TPS action? Many consider that to be BW's best recent game, while other believe ME2 is. There is a split in the fan base in what is expected of this company because they are making two completely different games. That soon won't be a problem though, as they will all blend into one genre soon enough.

[Savber100]

Gatt9 wrote....


Seriously Phaedon,  Bioware isn't Bioware anymore,  it's EA-Bioware.  I'm pretty confident you're going to learn that lesson the really hard way this March given the information thus far.

Then why did you pre-order ME3 according to the previous thread if you believe it will be a disappointment...? 

Modifié par Savber100, 05 décembre 2011 - 12:07 .

[TheSweetGirl]

I'm sorry, but I don't like MP. Sorry, Bioware. I will not be playing it. I always believed Mass Effect should had stayed SP until Mass Effect 3 was done.

What? I always thought ME was a RPG with shooter elements? No wait, ME2 changed all that. *facepalm* Oh boy.

[Bluko]

I actually played Shattered Steel. Don't remember much cause I don't think I played it much longer then 4 hours and I don't think I got very far. All I remember was shooting flying aliens or something with a mech. I dunno the memory of it kind of blurs with Mechwarrior 2 for me and numerous other early 3D games on the PC.

However it is true I did not play Planescape Torment, any of the NWN games, or Jade Empire. And I've played some of Dragon Age: Origins but have yet to finish it. (Game isn't appealing to me as combat works like a typical grinding MMO.)

I would say I'm a Baldur's Gate fan (still one of the better RPGs I've played) and something of a KOTOR fan. So I might say I'm an older fan. But if I ever use the term "original fan" it would only be in reference to the fact that I played ME1 first as it seems there's a good chunk of people who either haven't played it all or played ME2 first. I mean if ME1 was a Xbox game or something I wouldn't hold it against people. But seriously it's on the same generation of consoles/computers. There's no reason you can't at least find a used copy somewhere.

Well PS3 folks have an excuse. But I dunno why anyone would want to step into the second act of a story driven series. I mean if you tried ME1 first and disliked it, fair enough. But if someone's reasoning for liking ME2 better was solely cause they played it first I'd say that's a case of nostalgia.

Phaedon wrote...


Alas, the moral of the story is:
1) Every fan loves BioWare games as much as you do, why should you feel more entitled than them?
2) If you think that you are part of the "original BioWare fanbase", chances are that you are ridiculously wrong.

I wouldn't say everyone cares about Mass Effect on a equal level. I'm sure a vast majority of fans are rather impartial about a majority of things in the games (in other words they don't care).  Also I'd argue those who simply gush over the games or hate on the games aren't really fans, but fanboys. I mean anyone can say they hate/like something. But they need to explain why if they do otherwise they are just talking out of their bottom.

See a fan can look at things objectively and admit both the pros and cons of their given fandom. Obviously this comes at odds with Developers/Publishers to a point who ideally would like everyone to buy things without second thought. However this ultimately is a bad thing since if you never learn from your mistakes you can never hope to get better. And there is always room for improvement in anything.

See a fanboy will foolishly buy anything related to their fandom without so much as second thought to the quality or value. And other fanboys (hater types) will belittle anything new or different as "bad" . I have no sympathy for these people as they willingly choose to be mindless drones. Ultimately I'd wager these folks do the most harm as they either lack the will to admit flaws, thereby preventing the games from getting actual feedback. Or they hate on something for no real reason, giving what I'd call faulty feedback.


I don't feel I'm entightled to anything or that my opinions are any more important then someone else's. However that doesn't mean I think my opinion is worthless either. It's one of many and Mass Effect is ultimately Bioware's creation, not mine. Ideally I'd like to see the Devs make a ME3 that as many fans as possible can enjoy. 

Look it's fine if you don't like the Mako or whatever. But when you refuse even the idea of having just one throwback mission in the game with the Mako that's just incredibly selfish. And this is why I will get into lengthy arguements with folks, in the hopes I may be able to open their mind a little.


And when I have asked for things like inventory or weapon overheating to come back, I am not asking they be indentical to the way they were in ME1. Unfortunately it seems many people lack the capacity to imagine anything different, which is disappointing. I for instance would like to have an actual inventory again in ME3. But without the 150 items, Omni-Gel, over numerous item drops, and silly leveled I-X items. So while I did indeed dislike things about ME1's inventory I do not allow it for me to presume any sort of inventory in a Mass Effect game must as a result be bad. I'd like to think the Devs are smart and can fix the faults in their game, rather then removing them outright.  You should only remove something when it's out of place (such as bugs/glitches) or as a last resort.

Modifié par Bluko, 05 décembre 2011 - 01:03 .

[Il Divo]

Bluko wrote...

I actually played Shattered Steel. Don't remember much cause I don't think I played it much longer then 4 hours and I don't think I got very far. All I remember was shooting flying aliens or something with a mech. I dunno the memory of it kind of blurs with Mechwarrior 2 for me and numerous other early 3D games on the PC.

However it is true I did not play Planescape Torment, any of the NWN games, or Jade Empire. And I've played some of Dragon Age: Origins but have yet to finish it. (Game isn't appealing to me as combat works like a typical grinding MMO.)

I would say I'm a Baldur's Gate fan (still one of the better RPGs I've played) and something of a KOTOR fan. So I might say I'm an older fan. But if I ever use the term "original fan" it would only be in reference to the fact that I played ME1 first as it seems there's a good chunk of people who either haven't played it all or played ME2 first. I mean if ME1 was a Xbox game or something I wouldn't hold it against people. But seriously it's on the same generation of consoles/computers. There's no reason you can't at least find a used copy somewhere.

Well PS3 folks have an excuse. But I dunno why anyone would want to step into the second act of a story driven series. I mean if you tried ME1 first and disliked it, fair enough. But if someone's reasoning for liking ME2 better was solely cause they played it first I'd say that's a case of nostalgia.

Phaedon wrote...


Alas, the moral of the story is:
1) Every fan loves BioWare games as much as you do, why should you feel more entitled than them?
2) If you think that you are part of the "original BioWare fanbase", chances are that you are ridiculously wrong.

I wouldn't say everyone cares about Mass Effect on a equal level. I'm sure a vast majority of fans are rather impartial about a majority of things in the games (in other words they don't care).  Also I'd argue those who simply gush over the games or hate on the games aren't really fans, but fanboys. I mean anyone can say they hate/like something. But they need to explain why if they do otherwise they are just talking out of their bottom.

See a fan can look at things objectively and admit both the pros and cons of their given fandom. Obviously this comes at odds with Developers/Publishers to a point who ideally would like everyone to buy things without second thought. However this ultimately is a bad thing since if you never learn from your mistakes you can never hope to get better. And there is always room for improvement in anything.

See a fanboy will foolishly buy anything related to their fandom without so much as second thought to the quality or value. And other fanboys (hater types) will belittle anything new or different as "bad" . I have no sympathy for these people as they willingly choose to be mindless drones. Ultimately I'd wager these folks do the most harm as they either lack the will to admit flaws, thereby preventing the games from getting actual feedback. Or they hate on something for no real reason, giving what I'd call faulty feedback.


I don't feel I'm entightled to anything or that my opinions are any more important then someone else's. However that doesn't mean I think my opinion is worthless either. It's one of many and Mass Effect is ulatimately Bioware's creation, not mine. Ideally I'd like to see the Devs make a ME3 that as many fans as possible can enjoy. 

Look it's fine if you don't like the Mako or whatever. But when you refuse even the idea of having just one throwback mission in the game with the Mako that's just incredibly selfish. And this is why I will get into lengthy arguements with folks, in the hopes I may be able to open their mind a little.


And when I have asked for things like inventory or weapon overheating to come back, I am not asking they be indentical to the way they were in ME1. Unfortunately it seems many people lack the capacity to imagine anything different, which is disappointing. I for instance would like to have an actual inventory again in ME3. But without the 150 items, Omni-Gel, over numerous item drops, and silly leveled I-X items. So while I did indeed dislike things about ME1's inventory I do not allow it for me to presume any sort of inventory in a Mass Effect game must as a result be bad. I'd like to think the Devs are smart and can fix the faults in their game, rather then removing them outright.  You should only remove something when it's out of place (such as bugs/glitches) or as a last resort.

Must say Bluko, you are one of the few posters here who can write a page long reply to a sentence without it seeming reptitive or seem like a rant. You must teach me this skill some day. Definitely one of the most insightful posts of this thread.

Modifié par Il Divo, 05 décembre 2011 - 01:03 .

[Mr. MannlyMan]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Gatt9 wrote....

1.  That's a really interesting question,  lets turn it around,  why do you feel entitled to demand RPG's now be TPS's,  and degrade people who don't accept it?

That's why I feel entitled.  Because you don't even understand what the problem is.

2.  I often wonder if you think before you post.  I've bought just about every Bioware game but I'm not part of the original fanbase?  I guess all of you who just popped up in the last 5 years are Bioware's real original fanbase?

Seriously Phaedon,  Bioware isn't Bioware anymore,  it's EA-Bioware.  I'm pretty confident you're going to learn that lesson the really hard way this March given the information thus far.

You do realize that Phaedon spends all of his time kissing up to Bioware on these forums right? As for your point, I do find this interesting myself. It seems as if the people who bought ME2 as their first bioware game are the self entitled "fanboys", while the people who know them for deep RPGs from their recent games are attacked for not wanting a third person shooter. It's ok to want ME3 to be more shooter, but it's not ok to want more rpg elements.

Kind of have to agree.

Remember the arguments some people were making against stats? About how they're so "outdated" and "redundant", and that they just get in the way of the gameplay? Meanwhile, a lot of the people who had a problem with ME2 for hiding meaningful stats and who wanted more transparency and player control in ME3 got blasted by the anti-RPG gang.

Now we've got a weight capacity for weapons, weapon customization, more in-depth armor customization, weapon stats, armor stats, more detailed stats for powers, etc.... all meant to make it easier for players to tweak their experience.

We're given these avenues to build and customize our characters... more options and more control should be seen as an improvement to that system, should it not?

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Phaedons so caught up with himself he figures his opinion is fact. Let's
remember, this is the guy who thought ME3 wasn't going to include
multiplayer even after the magazine cover came out.  Just imagine the
disappointment when they announced it on the forum. Devastated.

You'd have to have a pretty big ego to create a topic like this tbh.





Edit: Nice post, Bluko. Pretty much what my sentiments are, give or take a few nitpicks.

Modifié par Mr. MannlyMan, 05 décembre 2011 - 01:08 .

[Bluko]

Il Divo wrote...

Must say Bluko, you are one of the few posters here who can write a page long reply to a sentence without it seeming reptitive or seem like a rant. You must teach me this skill some day. Definitely one of the most insightful posts of this thread.

Well I'm just naturally long-winded. I'm either very quite and say nothing or I babble on for 10 minutes straight to explain evey little detail. Pretty much been this way since age 4.

Not always a bad quality as giving presntations or speeches in general is fairly effortless for me. (Unless I'm trying to explain something I don't know anything about that. That always sucks big time.) But on the flip side it's about impossible for me to have a casual back-n'-forth conversation with someone. Hence why I spend more time on forums then I do on other sites. See I've already wrote a paragraph.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Dreadwing 67 wrote...

Lol, and now we play the waiting game.

*waits for negatice nancy Kasier Shephard*

Know your place, boy.

And at least try to type as if you've finished elementary education.

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Gatt9 wrote....

1.  That's a really interesting question,  lets turn it around,  why do you feel entitled to demand RPG's now be TPS's,  and degrade people who don't accept it?

That's why I feel entitled.  Because you don't even understand what the problem is.

2.  I often wonder if you think before you post.  I've bought just about every Bioware game but I'm not part of the original fanbase?  I guess all of you who just popped up in the last 5 years are Bioware's real original fanbase?

Seriously Phaedon,  Bioware isn't Bioware anymore,  it's EA-Bioware.  I'm pretty confident you're going to learn that lesson the really hard way this March given the information thus far.

You do realize that Phaedon spends all of his time kissing up to Bioware on these forums right?

Seems to me like he is desperately trying to emulate how I assume Javier eventually drew BioWare's attention; by being the resident "news guy" (although Jav was usually the first to find it, instead of just the guy that collects it). I'm also quite certain that Jav didn't kiss this much ass along the way (or at all, as I recall it), but I suppose not everyone has that kind of dignity.

As for your point, I do find this interesting myself. It seems as if the people who bought ME2 as their first bioware game are the self entitled "fanboys", while the people who know them for deep RPGs from their recent games are attacked for not wanting a third person shooter. It's ok to want ME3 to be more shooter, but it's not ok to want more rpg elements.

Not sure on this part, as most of the entitled fanboys see Mass Effect as something beyond everything in those genres, blind to how we're essentially getting a decent Gears clone with a dialogue simulator.

Phaedons so caught up with himself he figures his opinion is fact. Let's remember, this is the guy who thought ME3 wasn't going to include multiplayer even after the magazine cover came out.  Just imagine the disappointment when they announced it on the forum. Devastated. 


-Polite

True, true. I still remember people using Phae's topic as a source to disprove the multiplayer "rumors", because if "Phae says it isn't so, it isn't so."

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 05 décembre 2011 - 01:44 .

[firefireblow]

Don't you just love how all of us come together like a family? How we all just care for one another?

I do; I do care.

* Your post is really well written I just wish I had something creative to say.

Modifié par firefireblow, 05 décembre 2011 - 01:47 .

[GMagnum]

*hug every1* yall plz clm down tbh

[Seboist]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

True, true. I still remember people using Phae's topic as a source to disprove the multiplayer "rumors", because if "Phae says it isn't so, it isn't so."

He had not one, not two but THREE sources saying there wasn't going to be multiplayer in ME3!  

Modifié par Seboist, 05 décembre 2011 - 01:50 .

[Ghost-621]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Gatt9 wrote....

1.  That's a really interesting question,  lets turn it around,  why do you feel entitled to demand RPG's now be TPS's,  and degrade people who don't accept it?

That's why I feel entitled.  Because you don't even understand what the problem is.

2.  I often wonder if you think before you post.  I've bought just about every Bioware game but I'm not part of the original fanbase?  I guess all of you who just popped up in the last 5 years are Bioware's real original fanbase?

Seriously Phaedon,  Bioware isn't Bioware anymore,  it's EA-Bioware.  I'm pretty confident you're going to learn that lesson the really hard way this March given the information thus far.

You do realize that Phaedon spends all of his time kissing up to Bioware on these forums right? As for your point, I do find this interesting myself. It seems as if the people who bought ME2 as their first bioware game are the self entitled "fanboys", while the people who know them for deep RPGs from their recent games are attacked for not wanting a third person shooter. It's ok to want ME3 to be more shooter, but it's not ok to want more rpg elements. 

Phaedons so caught up with himself he figures his opinion is fact. Let's remember, this is the guy who thought ME3 wasn't going to include multiplayer even after the magazine cover came out.  Just imagine the disappointment when they announced it on the forum. Devastated. 


-Polite

This sums my most of the "loyalists" and leg-humpers that I've run into.

Dare I say something about wanting Mass Effect be more of an RPG and less of a third person shooter, I'm reported for "blatant trolling."

Modifié par Ghost-621, 05 décembre 2011 - 01:54 .

[TheSweetGirl]

This sums my most of the "loyalists" and leg-humpers that I've run into.

Dare I say something about wanting Mass Effect be more of an RPG and less of a third person shooter, I'm reported for "blatant trolling."

They just can't handle the truth.

[Ghost-621]

TheSweetGirl wrote...

This sums my most of the "loyalists" and leg-humpers that I've run into.

Dare I say something about wanting Mass Effect be more of an RPG and less of a third person shooter, I'm reported for "blatant trolling."

They just can't handle the truth.

.

[Seboist]

Ghost-621 wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Gatt9 wrote....

1.  That's a really interesting question,  lets turn it around,  why do you feel entitled to demand RPG's now be TPS's,  and degrade people who don't accept it?

That's why I feel entitled.  Because you don't even understand what the problem is.

2.  I often wonder if you think before you post.  I've bought just about every Bioware game but I'm not part of the original fanbase?  I guess all of you who just popped up in the last 5 years are Bioware's real original fanbase?

Seriously Phaedon,  Bioware isn't Bioware anymore,  it's EA-Bioware.  I'm pretty confident you're going to learn that lesson the really hard way this March given the information thus far.

You do realize that Phaedon spends all of his time kissing up to Bioware on these forums right? As for your point, I do find this interesting myself. It seems as if the people who bought ME2 as their first bioware game are the self entitled "fanboys", while the people who know them for deep RPGs from their recent games are attacked for not wanting a third person shooter. It's ok to want ME3 to be more shooter, but it's not ok to want more rpg elements. 

Phaedons so caught up with himself he figures his opinion is fact. Let's remember, this is the guy who thought ME3 wasn't going to include multiplayer even after the magazine cover came out.  Just imagine the disappointment when they announced it on the forum. Devastated. 


-Polite

This sums my most of the "loyalists" and leg-humpers that I've run into.

Dare I say something about wanting Mass Effect be more of an RPG and less of a third person shooter, I'm reported for "blatant trolling."

Yeah, myself and others have been attacked for daring to speak out that ME is little more than a pretentious linear Gears clone with choices that are more fake than silicone by those zealots as well.

[Merchant2006]

I've made my voice clear at times about ME2 and been labelled a troll instantly. But Bluko, you put it in nice terms. I agree with how you said it and I'm glad you did. Unfortunately I lack the ability to type a constructive response at 2:06am when instead I should be asleep. But I'm peeing around on BSN.

[Ghost-621]

Seboist wrote...

Ghost-621 wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Gatt9 wrote....

1.  That's a really interesting question,  lets turn it around,  why do you feel entitled to demand RPG's now be TPS's,  and degrade people who don't accept it?

That's why I feel entitled.  Because you don't even understand what the problem is.

2.  I often wonder if you think before you post.  I've bought just about every Bioware game but I'm not part of the original fanbase?  I guess all of you who just popped up in the last 5 years are Bioware's real original fanbase?

Seriously Phaedon,  Bioware isn't Bioware anymore,  it's EA-Bioware.  I'm pretty confident you're going to learn that lesson the really hard way this March given the information thus far.

You do realize that Phaedon spends all of his time kissing up to Bioware on these forums right? As for your point, I do find this interesting myself. It seems as if the people who bought ME2 as their first bioware game are the self entitled "fanboys", while the people who know them for deep RPGs from their recent games are attacked for not wanting a third person shooter. It's ok to want ME3 to be more shooter, but it's not ok to want more rpg elements. 

Phaedons so caught up with himself he figures his opinion is fact. Let's remember, this is the guy who thought ME3 wasn't going to include multiplayer even after the magazine cover came out.  Just imagine the disappointment when they announced it on the forum. Devastated. 


-Polite

This sums my most of the "loyalists" and leg-humpers that I've run into.

Dare I say something about wanting Mass Effect be more of an RPG and less of a third person shooter, I'm reported for "blatant trolling."

Yeah, myself and others have been attacked for daring to speak out that ME is little more than a pretentious linear Gears clone with choices that are more fake than silicone by those zealots as well.

This sums up Mass Effect 2 and 3, but I'm not going to derail the thread by starting that.

If I'm banned again for this "blatant trolling" I'm going to review sites, presenting evidence, and I'll show the world just how bright Bioware's true colors really are.

[Mr. MannlyMan]

Seboist wrote...

Yeah, myself and others have been attacked for daring to speak out that ME is little more than a pretentious linear Gears clone with choices that are more fake than silicone by those zealots as well.

TBH, when you put it like that it's no wonder people attack you.

Mass Effect 2&3 are very derivative of other games in the shooter genre (GoW in particular), but they're definitely not clones. In relation to some other RPGs, then yeah, they're pretty linear.

[Seboist]

Mr. MannlyMan wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Yeah, myself and others have been attacked for daring to speak out that ME is little more than a pretentious linear Gears clone with choices that are more fake than silicone by those zealots as well.

TBH, when you put it like that it's no wonder people attack you.

Mass Effect 2&3 are very derivative of other games in the shooter genre (GoW in particular), but they're definitely not clones. In relation to some other RPGs, then yeah, they're pretty linear.

I've spoken in a far more pleasant manner than that believe me and I've still been attacked as a "whiner" and what not about how choices don't matter or exist in vacuums.

[Ghost-621]

Mr. MannlyMan wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Yeah, myself and others have been attacked for daring to speak out that ME is little more than a pretentious linear Gears clone with choices that are more fake than silicone by those zealots as well.

TBH, when you put it like that it's no wonder people attack you.

Mass Effect 2&3 are very derivative of other games in the shooter genre (GoW in particular), but they're definitely not clones. In relation to some other RPGs, then yeah, they're pretty linear.

Not even in relation. ME2 hardly provided any free-reign of exploration, the hub "worlds" were hub rooms and hallways. The shooter elements were in cooridors. Sounds extremely linear and shootery on its own to me.

[Brohammed]

Meh, you didn't make a good point against who you were trying to make it OP, was a waste of time to read it tbh.