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[MEMANIAsama]

So, I finished the quest for her in Act 2, and even though I was 100% rivalry before (Tore up those books and basically shot down making deals with Demons, etc.) I then conceded to give her the animal skull for the mirror. She thanked me, said I was a great friend, etc.

Then I get to questioning beliefs where she FREAKS OUT on me, just after praising how wonderful I was for being there for her, etc. and then goes on to say how I need to back off, and how she doesn't need anybody watching over her, etc.

I realize WHY it happened, but it was such an abrupt cutscene that it feels like they should've planned it better and not make it feel so binary, Not to mention she acted like I DIDN'T give her the skull thing, or more or less said "zomg all my time/sacrifice and you took it all away from me, etc." which is equally frustrating. I guess they assume if you're a rival with her that you'd naturally NOT give her the skull, but... yeah, really lame. Just wanted to vent here and figure out if this is intentional due to the lmited outcomes they had in mind for when you get the Questioning Beliefs quest or a weird bug or what?

[TEWR]

I assume you know that the issue was caused by you maxing rivalry and as such can't unmax it. Once it's at 100%, it stays there. This was something the devs said either before DAII was released or soon after.

Also, it's an Arulin'holm, not animal skull lol.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 05 décembre 2011 - 04:02 .

[MEMANIAsama]

Doh! I forgot it was a tool, for some reason I kept thinking it was that deer head thing you keep seeing on the loading screens for Merrill related stuff.

Anyways, yeah, I know it was because I maxed Rivalry, but couldn't I have been far into the rivalry tree when I gave her the tool like... say 90, and still gotten that bipolar "Questioning Beliefs" response? I'm just saying it's weird that they assume being a rival with Merrill means you'll never give her the tool.

[Quething]

It's not that they assume a Rival would naturally give her the knife. It's that they set it up so that the knife completely and entirely dictates your Friend/Rival status. If you give her the knife at 99% Rival, her approval will instantly shift to 89% Friend. If you deny her the knife at 99% Friend, her approval will instantly shift to 89% Rival. Basically, she has opinions on mages and blood magic and demons and stuff, but all she really cares about is the mirror and whether you're helping her with it or not.

But since you maxed out Rival, the game wasn't able to bump her up to Friend, so it bugged out on you.

Most of the Friend/Rival paths are designed a bit shakily and somewhat poorly done (which is fair; it's an experiment, they're still finding their footing, and I think it's telling that Sebastian's is easily the best and most coherent), but Merrill's is one of the worst in terms of not really being about what it's actually about.

(Fenris: most points are gained and lost over mages, but it's really about slavery, and whether you want him to fight back or move on.
Anders: most points are gained and lost over mages, but it's really about whether you think the Justice merger was a good idea or not.
Aveline: most points are gained and lost over money or morally dubious behavior, but it's really about how much people should question authority and whether she's too complacent about her captaincy.
Merrill: most points are gained and lost over blood magic and demons, but it's really about whether you approve of her obsession with the mirror.

Of the lot, Merrill's the only one where you only get to comment on the actual issue during the actual QB conversations and never, ever, ever have a related gain or loss anywhere else.)

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I had the same issue. I was mostly rivals with her. I have her the Aruilin'holm and became sort of friends with her and then went back to rivalry after doing more things she disapproved of. It created an awkward continuity error where I wasn't entirely quite sure how to feel about her anymore.

[MEMANIAsama]

She also seemed to be one of the buggier characters when it came to relationships, etc. if I remember right. I wouldn't be surprised if she was one of the earlier ones they programmed/worked on. So, in terms of plot now since I'm maxed Rivalry with her it'll be like I never gave her the knife? I guess I can live with that.

[Kavatica]

MEMANIAsama wrote...

She also seemed to be one of the buggier characters when it came to relationships, etc. if I remember right. I wouldn't be surprised if she was one of the earlier ones they programmed/worked on. So, in terms of plot now since I'm maxed Rivalry with her it'll be like I never gave her the knife? I guess I can live with that.

She is definitely a buggy character. And bipolar. I have a really hard time getting her out of the neutral zone (one thing I say/do pisses her off, the next makes her like me and back and forth we go) and often can't access her Questioning Beliefs quest which I'm wondering is a result of me not having her solidly in the friend/rival zone. This happens to me with Isabela as well, for some reason. My last playthrough I tried really hard to get Merrill to like me and I would say nice things and it would still ****** her off. She tends to stick with me in the final battle anyways, but it is still annoying.

[Koire]

Questioning Beliefs in Act 2 is available at 50% friendship/rivalry (you can easily see it - the bonus in the talent tree will unlock at 50%)
Questioning Beliefs in Act 3 is available at 100% friendship/rivalry.

Merrill is one of the easiest characters to rival:
*Don't give her the dagger
*Take her to the Fade and select the diplomatic option (+20 rivalry)
*Destroy the evil tomes and take her along (+50 rivalry from this quest alone)

PS There is a known bug for 100% friendship:
* If you have maxed out your friendship with Merrill, she acts as if you gave her the Arulin'Holm, even if you didn't. Tested on PS3 & PC & 360. (Source)

Seems that the reverse (100% rivalry, she acts as if you didn't give her the tool) is also true.

Modifié par Koire, 14 mars 2012 - 08:42 .

[DarkAmaranth1966]

It's simple, chose nice when she opens the barrier, give her the tool, take responsibility after she kills the keeper. Otherwise be witty with her.

[Kavatica]

Koire wrote...

Questioning Beliefs in Act 2 is available at 50% friendship/rivalry (you can easily see it - the bonus in the talent tree will unlock at 50%)
Questioning Beliefs in Act 3 is available at 100% friendship/rivalry.

Merrill is one of the easiest characters to rival:
*Don't give her the dagger
*Take her to the Fade and select the diplomatic option (+20 rivalry)
*Destroy the evil tomes and take her along (+50 rivalry from this quest alone)

PS There is a known bug for 100% friendship:
* If you have maxed out your friendship with Merrill, she acts as if you gave her the Arulin'Holm, even if you didn't. Tested on PS3 & PC & 360. (Source)

Seems that the reverse (100% rivalry, she acts as if you didn't give her the tool) is also true.

I tend to hit a bug where I can see her Act 3 Questioning Beliefs quest, but when I go to talk to her, she talks about the holes in the roof of her house.

[Kavatica]

DarkAmaranth1966 wrote...

It's simple, chose nice when she opens the barrier, give her the tool, take responsibility after she kills the keeper. Otherwise be witty with her.

I did all of this. Still ended up in the neutral zone. So it is possible to negate any friendship points you earn with her if you take her along on other quests and do things she may not approve of or say things she doesn't like (some of which appear to be diplomatic from Hawke's perspective).

[Koire]

Kavatica wrote...
I tend to hit a bug where I can see her Act 3 Questioning Beliefs quest, but when I go to talk to her, she talks about the holes in the roof of her house.

Does it happen at 100% friendship/rivalry? If yes, that's weird  If no, the quest marker itself is the bug, not the fact that you can't talk to her. The same happens with Anders' Act 3 QB if you refuse to help him: you see the marker and have the quest in the quest log, but you are not supposed to.

Also, specificially for Merrill: Act 3 QB talk won't trigger until you complete "A New Path". This is intended.

Modifié par Koire, 14 mars 2012 - 10:31 .

[Kavatica]

Koire wrote...

Kavatica wrote...
I tend to hit a bug where I can see her Act 3 Questioning Beliefs quest, but when I go to talk to her, she talks about the holes in the roof of her house.

Does it happen at 100% friendship/rivalry? If yes, that's weird  If no, the quest marker itself is the bug, not the fact that you can't talk to her. The same happens with Anders' Act 3 QB if you refuse to help him: you see the marker and have the quest in the quest log, but you are not supposed to.

Also, specificially for Merrill: Act 3 QB talk won't trigger until you complete "A New Path". This is intended.

I will check with the 100% thing (I suspect that may be the issue here), but yes - A New Path was completed first.